Whats Andrew McLeods Problem?

[- PC -]

In line with the poll on McLeod V Riciutto something that has been nagging at me arose in my mind and i wondered if anyone else had felt the same?

Most of us picked Roo for his consistency but made comment about Maccas ability to be brilliant when he switched it on.

Why cant he switch it on? Why WONT he switch it on.


A little theory I have developed and may be way out of left base here ( reason for the thread). I believe after McLeod lost/finished second in the Brownlow Medal he dropped his bundle and lost desire/interest for a while. Now whether that coincided with some friction between Ayres and he, or the friction was because Ayres could see Macca lost desire/interst after been a near cetainty beaten. Sometimes when we want something so badly we tend to lose a spring in our step when it doesnt happen.

I know injuries play a part and so does age but in comparing Roo you see he is older and just takes everything in his stride.

I know Andrew McLeod is a proud person and I know he will be stung by these words but I truly hope he has enough pride left in him to turn his career around.

I mean how many of us were willing or wouldnt care if he was traded? Thats how low he has fallen in some of your eyes. Hopefully he will bounce back and be the brilliant performer we know.

 

[jo172]

in two words buggered knees

And he's also part of the Ayres legacy i.e Angwin, S. Stevens god he brought alot to the club

 

[jc67]

He just played well above himself in 10 or so games and set an unrealistic standard for himself.
Johnson should have got the norm smith in 97 and Jarman in 98!
we should have traded him (several times)!

 

[Stiffy_18]

I think your observation is pretty much spot on PerthCrow.

 

[Macca19]

A little theory I have developed and may be way out of left base here ( reason for the thread). I believe after McLeod lost/finished second in the Brownlow Medal he dropped his bundle and lost desire/interest for a while. Now whether that coincided with some friction between Ayres and he, or the friction was because Ayres could see Macca lost desire/interst after been a near cetainty beaten. Sometimes when we want something so badly we tend to lose a spring in our step when it doesnt happen.

I reckon youve got it 100% spot on.

I remember him coming out and stating that year that he was going to win the Brownlow Medal and a number of articles in the Advertiser and Mail about it.

Not sure if anyone else remembers that Brownlow count, but i distinctly remember when they reached the count for that game against the Kangaroos (i think) late in the year when everyone thought he'd get 3 votes and seal the Brownlow...his teammates nearby must have been ribbing him about the votes he was gonna get or something because the camera was on him the whole of that games count and his face went from huge smile and laughter to stone cold nothing when his name didnt get called out. I reckon his heart semi broke right there because the Brownlow is what he wanted and probably deserved that year.

He hasnt really been the same for you guys since. Whether that is knees, a problem with the coach or that he played the season of his life in 2001 and didnt come away with anything left him a bit disinterested since who knows. But i do think you are right.

Its a pity because his last few seasons have been a bit of a waste and all you Crows supporters (and Football supporters in general) know Mcleod can play a lot better than what he has shown.

Maybe a new coach will freshen Macca up and he will thrive under Craig. Definately a strong chance. I wouldnt write him off.

 

[footballphantom]

I used to love watching him play but the spark has gone. I hope it can be reignited.

In the year following that Brownlow I seem to recall that he was suspended for charging and that ended his hopes that year. It now seems that charging has gone out and it was such a subjective charge it would not have done anything for his confidence as that was the way he played.

Me thinks that the tribunal has a lot to answer for.

 

[Skippy_14]

in two words buggered knees

And he's also part of the Ayres legacy i.e Angwin, S. Stevens god he brought alot to the club

Um ok.

 

[wooshta_9]

He just played well above himself in 10 or so games and set an unrealistic standard for himself.
Johnson should have got the norm smith in 97 and Jarman in 98!
we should have traded him (several times)!

Im not a Crows supporter or anything but i entirely agree with you on that, not sure about Johnson in 97 but definetly Jars in 98.
I would trade him if i got a chance if u were the crows staff.

 

[Alex99]

in two words buggered knees

And he's also part of the Ayres legacy i.e Angwin, S. Stevens god he brought alot to the club

I have two words regarding Andrew McLeod

“Tall Poppy” it is the god dam Australian way to knock anyone who achieved anything remotely close to success and they get knocked right down. Get of his dam back

 

[tribey]

I have two words regarding Andrew McLeod

“Tall Poppy”

If Andrew McLeod is a 'tall poppy' then Laurence Angwin is Mother Teresa... "medicinal purposes your worship, peace be with you."

In all seriousness, M23 has been playing like an overpaid showpony since he took Collingwood to the cleaners in the 2003 Wizard Wok final.

Is it his knee? Is it malaise? Is he disinterested? Who knows?

What is undeniable is that he's gone from being one of the most respected and damaging players in the competition, to just another good player who doesn't turn it on anywhere near enough for the talent they possess.

He's also being paid like the gamebreaking superstar he used to be...

So are we wrong to demand the real Andrew McLeod? Are we wrong to expect him to perform the way he should for the money he earns?

Hell no.

'it is the god dam Australian way to knock anyone who achieved anything remotely close to success and they get knocked right down. Get of his dam back

On the contrary, we want and expect him (for the money he's on and the talent that flows through his body) to keep achieving the success he once enjoyed.

I know what you're getting at, but in this instance it's not TPS.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

On the contrary, we want and expect him (for the money he's on and the talent that flows through his body) to keep achieving the success he once enjoyed.

I know what you're getting at, but in this instance it's not TPS.

This is the part that disappoints me. Both Tredrea and Macca are on roughly the same sort of money but who would you say puts in more for his team.
However, in his defense, "bone on bone" doesn't sound like a minor injury to be carryring to me.

I am confident Macca will turn it around in 2005.

 

[Alex99]

If Andrew McLeod is a 'tall poppy' then Laurence Angwin is Mother Teresa... "medicinal purposes your worship, peace be with you."

In all seriousness, M23 has been playing like an overpaid showpony since he took Collingwood to the cleaners in the 2003 Wizard Wok final.

Is it his knee? Is it malaise? Is he disinterested? Who knows?

What is undeniable is that he's gone from being one of the most respected and damaging players in the competition, to just another good player who doesn't turn it on anywhere near enough for the talent they possess.

He's also being paid like the gamebreaking superstar he used to be...

So are we wrong to demand the real Andrew McLeod? Are we wrong to expect him to perform the way he should for the money he earns?

Hell no.



On the contrary, we want and expect him (for the money he's on and the talent that flows through his body) to keep achieving the success he once enjoyed.

I know what you're getting at, but in this instance it's not TPS.

Can anyone actually put his or her finger on his problem? It has been insinuated that he had a problem with Gary Ayres or is it his knees possibly it could be as easy as after his contract extension and the increase in payment he has lost motivation, give him a go and lets see how he goes.

Laurance Angwin did nothing for the AFC and deserved all the problems that came his way. Andrew McLeod will go down in AFC history as folklore, but recently supporters have been calling for him to be traded, would have North Melbourne called for Carey to be traded (if the Stevens saga didn’t eventuate), would Essendon supporters call for Jimmy Hird to be traded, HELL NO… only reason some supporters want to trade McLeod is because he has Platoed and has one mediocre season, is that fair, no ‘f’ way

 

[Fudd]

I cant believe all this talk of trading Mcleod. Hes had 2 seasons where he hasnt performed to his own lofty standards, but is still one of the best players in the comp. He has been an absolute champion for this club, anyone suggesting he should be traded has rocks in their head. You dont chuck out and ornament of the game after a couple of seasons where he has still been pretty bloody good and won his share of games off his own boot. He deserves better than that. As far as the money he is on, who cares? last time i checked none of the supporters were paying the salaries of the AFC. As far as im concerned hes still worth it. Itll be interesting to see what happens if Macca has a great year next year. And comparisons between Roo and him are unfair. Roo hasnt had the knee problems, and has never been burdened with the label of being the best player in the comp, despite the Brownlow.

 

[tribey]

This is the part that disappoints me. Both Tredrea and Macca are on roughly the same sort of money but who would you say puts in more for his team.

A 25/26yo 4-time reigning AA CHF who booted 81 goals last season vs an increasingly outside midfielder who has been on the decline - for no apparent reason - for the past 2 years?

Is this a trick question?

However, in his defense, "bone on bone" doesn't sound like a minor injury to be carryring to me.

I am confident Macca will turn it around in 2005.

He's had this 'bone on bone' problem in his knee since the days of Blight. Didn't stop him almost winning a Brownlow in 2001 though did it?

Let's hope so.

 

[Fudd]

This is the part that disappoints me. Both Tredrea and Macca are on roughly the same sort of money but who would you say puts in more for his team.
However, in his defense, "bone on bone" doesn't sound like a minor injury to be carryring to me.

I am confident Macca will turn it around in 2005.

i get what you are saying but i think before this year when Tredrea couldnt kick a goal to save himself, and macca did pretty well in the Brownlow (despite an average season), you might see how they would be on similar money.

 

[Fudd]

He's had this 'bone on bone' problem in his knee since the days of Blight. Didn't stop him almost winning a Brownlow in 2001 though did it?

You dont think that injury is going to get progressively worse?

 

[tribey]

You dont think that injury is going to get progressively worse?

That's the word yes, and I believe by this age he would be struggling with it to a certain degree - but - when his form was average earlier this season gone the club said his knee was fine and had nothing to do with it.

If it is the knee then we've got a highly paid player on the bottom of his J-curve on our books - paying like a gun, playing like a dud - and it will only get worse.

The words "Darren Gaspar" come to mind.

Harsh? Yes. Realistic? Yes.

 

[Fudd]

That's the word yes, and I believe by this age he would be struggling with it to a certain degree - but - when his form was average earlier this season gone the club said his knee was fine and had nothing to do with it.

If it is the knee then we've got a highly paid player on the bottom of his J-curve on our books - paying like a gun, playing like a dud - and it will only get worse.

The words "Darren Gaspar" come to mind.

Harsh? Yes. Realistic? Yes.

haha well i dont know if the words 'dud' or 'darren gaspar' should be mentioned in the same sentence as Andrew Mcleod. Im not suggesting he is at his best form, but a dud? And comparing him to Gaspar suggests he is actually a liability to the side. Mcleod probably made the best players more often than not, maybe not as the Best player any more but he still a very good player that oppositions still have to plan for or he will cut you up. Its not not like he has fallen as far as Mercuri.

 

[tribey]

haha well i dont know if the words 'dud' or 'darren gaspar' should be mentioned in the same sentence as Andrew Mcleod. Im not suggesting he is at his best form, but a dud? And comparing him to Gaspar suggests he is actually a liability to the side. Mcleod probably made the best players more often than not, maybe not as the Best player any more but he still a very good player that oppositions still have to plan for or he will cut you up. Its not not like he has fallen as far as Mercuri.

McLeod isn't a dud, I just wanted a juicy soundbyte.

But, the fact the remains, he's been nowhere near the standard of his ability or his pay... now whether that's because of injury or his mindset doesn't really matter. Like the Carey deal, we seem to be paying for nowt but reputation and nostalgia.

The comparison to Gaspar is valid to a certain extent - people forget that before his ACL tear a few years ago, Gaspar was just about the best defender in the competition, and looked to be worth every cent of the fat contract he was given.

He's come back like a gimp however.

If Andrew's knee is to get progressively worse, what will he become? That's the fear.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

A 25/26yo 4-time reigning AA CHF who booted 81 goals last season vs an increasingly outside midfielder who has been on the decline - for no apparent reason - for the past 2 years?

Is this a trick question?



He's had this 'bone on bone' problem in his knee since the days of Blight. Didn't stop him almost winning a Brownlow in 2001 though did it?

Let's hope so.

No DT it was a rhetorical question. Off course Tredrea has been of more value to the PAPS than Macca has to us over the past 2 years. Don't get me wrong though, 2005 will be Maccas year - fingers crossed.

 

[- PC -]

I cant believe all this talk of trading Mcleod. Hes had 2 seasons where he hasnt performed to his own lofty standards, but is still one of the best players in the comp. He has been an absolute champion for this club, anyone suggesting he should be traded has rocks in their head. You dont chuck out and ornament of the game after a couple of seasons where he has still been pretty bloody good and won his share of games off his own boot. He deserves better than that. As far as the money he is on, who cares? last time i checked none of the supporters were paying the salaries of the AFC. As far as im concerned hes still worth it. Itll be interesting to see what happens if Macca has a great year next year. And comparisons between Roo and him are unfair. Roo hasnt had the knee problems, and has never been burdened with the label of being the best player in the comp, despite the Brownlow.

I never said he should be traded in any thread , I hope he comes back better than ever . The reason I started this was to get an answer about a question in my own mind..and judging from the responses a lot of us feel the same..while his injury is a concern there seems to also have been some issues within himself that were as evident to me as they were to Ayres? and also ourselves. I think its a fair comparison to judge Macca V Roo as they have been the 2 outstanding servants of the AFC and one has carried on while the other hs faded.

Can anyone actually put his or her finger on his problem? It has been insinuated that he had a problem with Gary Ayres or is it his knees possibly it could be as easy as after his contract extension and the increase in payment he has lost motivation, give him a go and lets see how he goes.

The whole reason for the thread I wanted to know if my suggestion was wrong and if it was injury or been played out of position? I agree he will be in my starting 22 next year in the middle..lets get the old Macca back..and hope NC can motivate him

 

[shacka]

The knees don't cut it with me, Gary Hocking had the same problem and for longer.

As an outsider (non-Crow fanm though my little brother is, so i've seen a lot of them) McCleod seems to lack the desire. Much of the time his on-field demeanor (sic) leaves quite a bit to be desired. Quite often he acts as if he is above the team, his reaction to goals is certainly not what you'd expect from a leader at the club, furthermore i find his second efforts are pretty much non-existant. Plays like a person who knows when the camera is on him and when the camera isn't.

He looks like a person who feels as if they've prooved themself and is prepared for the team to suffer.

 

[Mad Dog]

Well - I'm going to have my 5 cents worth.

Let me start by saying I hate bagging Andy McLeod - but season after season of apparent disinterest speaks for itself.

I really think that Andy suffers from the "McLeod phenomenon" that the media have built since 1997. He is a very very good player - definately top 50 in the AFL, but since his Norm Smith successes, the media - and probably us to an extent have blown sunshine up his ass non-stop and probably created a myth that is greater than the reality.
Andy played some good footy on GF day '97, but Rehn's effort in the ruck, Pittman's effort on Loewe, Johnson's effort on Harvey, Bond (4 goals), Jarman (6), Ellen, (5)........were just as pivitol in winning the Flag...but Macca got the NS...good luck to him.
Andy also played well on GF day '98, but again, Rehn in ruck, Caven's effort on Carey, Benny's effort in the 1st qtr saved us about 5 goals, Jarman again....the list goes on.....again Macca got the prize - probably more based on the premium of the '97 NS than his actual effort in '98.......but again good luck.
Since then his name has been changed by most media outlets to be "Duel Norm Smith Medalist Andrew McLeod", just as they have with "Adelaide's own Leyton Hewitt".
Since then all Andy has needed to do is a couple of really flashy things per game - and the myth is perpetuated. As I say - he is a very very good player, but the comparisons over the years to Voss, Black, Buckley etc are cringe worthy........you only need to watch these guys and their work rate week after week to know there is no comparison.
Andy suffers from the Andy McLeod myth more than anyone.....deep down he believes his own press, and is satisfied with doing the flashy rather than the difficult. I remember at school - the most talented guys were the ones that worked the least - whether it was football, cricket, school work...whatever.
This year with the fortune of our team on the slide, I spent a lot of time at home games watching player efforts and behaviour off the ball, because I am a great believer that it's not just about what you do when you've got the ball....but what you do when you haven't got it. McLeod's demenour, work rate, example, leadership, and enthusiasm off the ball when we are not in possession is pretty close to non existant. There are other players who don't know how to play the game when we are not in possession - Doughty being one.......he struggles to find his opponent, then spends the rest of the passage of play pointing at him trying to get someone to pick him up. But McLeod's workrate is not good off the ball. He avoids body contact at all costs - he will try and swoop one handed rather than commit physically to a contest - when it comes off it looks brilliant - when it doesn't he looks very very average and is a negative message to the rest of his team-mates.
Andy obviously suffers with his knees - I reckon his Doc has probably told him not to ping for goal any further than 35 out........how else can you explain is reluctance to run to 50 and kick the long goal like Goodwin. If that's the case then fine - but as we've said - he came second in the Brownlow with dodgy knees - so it's no excuse.
His reaction to the Brownlow loss in 2001 was one of my great dissappointments in Macca - I really think he could have behaved in a more dignified manner. I really think he carries a bit of a chip on his shoulder about it.

Anyway - I think Macca is a complex character, I know his heart is in the right place because I have witnessed his generosity with his time - and his genuine interest in those a little less fortunate, thru kids at kindys and in the wider community. I think he struggles to keep up to the myth that has been created. He had 2 very good games in 97 and 98 - and had a very good season in 2001....other than that - he's been a solid footballer......hardly a Voss, Carey, Tredrea etc.
I would like to see Macca go back and watch his first dozen or so games when he came into the side under Robert un-Shaw...and watch how hard he needed to work to get into the game as a half forward........he had no more or no less talent back then....talent doesn't fluctuate with age............he just worked harder back then because he needed to in order to find the ball. He needs to realise that his talent levels have not changed since then - so he needs to work just as hard to find the ball these days.
I hope he can return to being a player that excites us on occasions, but more importantly is there in the trenches with guys like Roo, willing to do the hard things when his club needs him.

 

[No 1 Draft Pick]

His reaction to the Brownlow loss in 2001 was one of my great dissappointments in Macca - I really think he could have behaved in a more dignified manner.

Are you serious with the above comment? Living in Melbourne at the time, newspapers ran articles about how dignified he was in defeat - even when he was CLEARLY dudded with the Brownlow that year (neither Maccas 35 possession Kangas game, 39 disposals vs Freo R 22 got any votes)

I think he struggles to keep up to the myth that has been created. He had 2 very good games in 97 and 98 - and had a very good season in 2001....other than that - he's been a solid footballer......hardly a Voss, Carey, Tredrea etc.

Mad Dog - look at his record below from his AFC website profile. It is hardly 2 good games and one very good year. He was very unlucky to not win AA selection in 97 also. He was either club champion or runner up for 5 years straight from 1997-2001. And then finished 3rd in 2002 and 2003. Thats a pretty consistent record. He was quiet in 2004 but not atrocious (4 or 5th in B&F).

People - where is the loyalty to one of our clubs great? A new coach freeing him up in 2005 - if his knees hold he will probably be AFL top 10 player again come seasons end

PLAYER HONORS
AFC Emerging Talent Award 1995; AFL Rising Star nominee 1995; Premiership Player 1997, 1998; Norm Smith Medallist 1997, 1998; Best and Fairest 1997, 2001; 2nd Best and Fairest 1998, 1999, 2000; 3rd Best and Fairest 2002 (equal), 2003; 3rd Brownlow Medal 2000; 2nd Brownlow Medal 2001; All-Australian 1998, 2000, 2001; International Rules Series 2000, 2001; Pre-season premiership player 2003; Michael Tuck Medallist (Best player in pre-season Grand Final) 2003.

 

[Mad Dog]

sorry - duplicate - bloody server