When do we review?

[mhill]

It’s interesting how many are “assuming” the club are doing things. If that’s the case, why wouldn’t the club share some of this work?
People seem very defensive about putting some scrutiny on what is an incredibly ambitious (but admirable) objective.
As I said, I am all for it with the right level of scrutiny

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

calling a external review after losing:

1,600 games + experience
Long standing president
Long standing CEO
Long standing coach

And replacing with new faces in the footy department, 12 new players in 2 years, and a hugely inexperienced side is a massive knee jerk reaction.

External reviews are typically called when poor performances don’t align to where you should be performing at without a reason.

Where we are at in the beginning of a rebuild is par for the course or maybe even fractionally ahead if we are saying 2024 was ground zero and 2025 was the first year of the build.

2027/28 will give a better idea if anything like this is required.

I disagree with this take... Every organisation should review and be viligent when results aren't good even where there may be valid excuses.

I think what the OP is calling on is a "pre-mortem" and these are very beneficial. We should analyse a scenario where our rebuild has not gone well and imagine the body is dead on the table.

A pre-mortem review is a strategic planning technique where a team imagines a project has failed and then works backward to identify the reasons why, which helps prevent failure by addressing potential risks beforehand

 

[Michaels]

I disagree with this take... Every organisation should review and be viligent when results aren't good even where there may be valid excuses.

I think what the OP is calling on is a "pre-mortem" and these are very beneficial. We should analyse a scenario where our rebuild has not gone well and imagine the body is dead on the table.

A pre-mortem review is a strategic planning technique where a team imagines a project has failed and then works backward to identify the reasons why, which helps prevent failure by addressing potential risks beforehand

The OP is calling for an external review.

The club (like all clubs) would always be assessing and managing decisions as they go to put their best foot forward.

External reviews are crisis mode areas.

5 years ago we had just won our 3rd flag in 4 years.

Since then we have had a total overhaul, injected 12 draftees in 2 years, and added 3-4 extra development coaches.

Just not exactly sure what’s there to review to be honest.

 

[beema limapep]

I don't think a review is going to find much at the moment. Maybe a line coach or a minor issue here or there. Actually if anything, possibly injury prevention and management.

Maybe it wouldn't hurt.

 

[mhill]

T4L gets it.
Michaels - where did I say the review be completely external?
I pointed out tapping into external people helps us understand where the game is heading which then informs what we might need to tweak.
I gave examples of 4 ex Tiger premiership stars who are working at other afl clubs who are all currently doing very well. Let’s use them (the part timers like Cotchin) to understand what we might be missing.
All I am saying is let’s be open to other views and use those to make sure we don’t go in the wrong direction.
People get very complacent after a period of success.
Believe their own BS and get trapped in their own inertia.
The really good ones safeguard themselves by regularly checking into what is happening in the industry and using that to improve their longer term plans.

Noone can say we are leading edge at anything right now
Why not learn from others and avoid more time in the wilderness or are we seriously thinking we are above that?

 

[Michaels]

T4L gets it.
Michaels - where did I say the review be completely external?
I pointed out tapping into external people helps us understand where the game is heading which then informs what we might need to tweak.
I gave examples of 4 ex Tiger premiership stars who are working at other afl clubs who are all currently doing very well. Let’s use them (the part timers like Cotchin) to understand what we might be missing.
All I am saying is let’s be open to other views and use those to make sure we don’t go in the wrong direction.
People get very complacent after a period of success.
Believe their own BS and get trapped in their own inertia.
The really good ones safeguard themselves by regularly checking into what is happening in the industry and using that to improve their longer term plans.

Noone can say we are leading edge at anything right now
Why not learn from others and avoid more time in the wilderness or are we seriously thinking we are above that?

Are Breust, Duryea, Ziebell and Newman after a long stint elsewhere not the outside views you speak of coming from other successful environments? (Ziebell not so much on that front)

 

[_RT_]

It’s interesting how many are “assuming” the club are doing things. If that’s the case, why wouldn’t the club share some of this work?
People seem very defensive about putting some scrutiny on what is an incredibly ambitious (but admirable) objective.
As I said, I am all for it with the right level of scrutiny

There is no assumption, there have been reports about Dunne and/or Yze presenting to the board throughout the last couple of years to update them as to where they see things with regards the mens program, the club has already announced that there is currently an in depth review of the women's program, the VFL team achieved finals in 2025 despite not having many AFL players available at times due to injuries.

I for one am wondering why you want an in depth review when it is clear that as far as the mens program is concerned everything is tracking along nicely. Now if we get to 2028 and we're still fighting to get out of the bottom 3 then by all means there should be an in depth review to see where things have gone wrong, but right now I'm not sure what you're expecting to uncover by having one.

 

[mhill]

On what basis do you say the men’s program is tracking nicely?
*Wins/Losses
*Percentage
*Player retention
*Strength and conditioning
*List demographic

What exactly is it?

I think the ambition is amazing but I am a little surprised how apathetic supporters are with regard to the progress.
Remember, just over 2 years ago it was “we don’t rebuild at Richmond”.

If, as you say, the powers that be have engineered a turn around plan then where is it?

We’ve become very easy to please at Tigerland since those flags but the facts are that it’s been 1 finals appearance in the last 5 years and the last 2 years at the bottom of the ladder.

If, as I expect, we see this again in 2026 with a number of senior players retiring, we can expect and deserve scrutiny which comes with ongoing mediocre performance. I am suggesting we get ahead of it

 

[Wavvey]

I’m far from a business expert but I’m pretty sure most businesses operate doing frequent reviews, especially a business as large as an AFL football club. They’d be reviewing every single aspect of the business at all times, including the football program

 

[_RT_]

On what basis do you say the men’s program is tracking nicely?
*Wins/Losses
*Percentage
*Player retention
*Strength and conditioning
*List demographic

What exactly is it?

I think the ambition is amazing but I am a little surprised how apathetic supporters are with regard to the progress.
Remember, just over 2 years ago it was “we don’t rebuild at Richmond”.

If, as you say, the powers that be have engineered a turn around plan then where is it?

We’ve become very easy to please at Tigerland since those flags but the facts are that it’s been 1 finals appearance in the last 5 years and the last 2 years at the bottom of the ladder.

If, as I expect, we see this again in 2026 with a number of senior players retiring, we can expect and deserve scrutiny which comes with ongoing mediocre performance. I am suggesting we get ahead of it

Brendon Gales comment about not rebuilding was back in 2016. While he mentioned when he announced his departure that the club didn't need to rebuild that was more in relation to the club as a whole rather than the playing list, as he mentioned that we had a strong foundation, culture and leadership.

The list was always going to need to be rebuilt especially once we started to lose the core of Martin Cotchin Riewoldt initially and then had the departures of Rioli Bolton Graham & Baker also happening at the same time.

As far as the belief that the mens program is tracking nicely, well as mentioned above by Michaels we have lost an incredible amount of senior experience in the last 2-3 seasons as we transitioned from Hardwick to Yze and replaced them with a lot of unproven youth who have for the most part showed some promising signs in their first year under Yze where they managed to win 5 games following just 2 wins in his first year when we did have a lot more experience leading the way. To aid the next phase of the development of the playing group we have spent a bit of soft cap space to bring in more development coaches to fast track that.

Our list has gone from unbalanced and top heavy to a more well rounded list which will allow both the AFL & VFL sides to be able to play the same style and structure at both levels which will further aid the development of the team as a whole. After the mass exodus in 2024 where senior players who seemingly weren't prepared to buy in to a few tough years as we rebuilt we haven't really lost anyone that we wanted to keep with only Young(fringe KPD) to depart via trade.

As for having the plan detailed for members I'd have thought it was quite clear what the plan is and that is to rebuild the list so that we can win our next premiership. Hartley has been quite clear that the players being brought in via draft/trade/free agency are being done so with the aim for them to be part of the next premiership side, not just to get us out of the bottom 3. Yze has also been quite clear that he has a plan in place to slowly but surely build a side that can bring premiership success to the club. He has consistently said that there will be no shortcuts taken and that it is going to take time as we get the new breed up to that 50-75 games of experience.

Don't forget that it took Hardwick until his 4th season before we played finals and until his 8th before we won our first flag and it wasn't until after his 7th season that we had the big review and yet here we are, barely 3 months after Yze finished his first real season of his rebuild and you're asking for an external review, because a team that was widely expected to struggle to win a game in 2025 and win the spoon, managed to win 5 games and avoid the spoon.

You'd have thought the experience from the Hardwick years would have taught supporters that patience is required when you're building from the bottom, but apparently not all of us have learnt that.

 

[The_Kraken]

Are Breust, Duryea, Ziebell and Newman after a long stint elsewhere not the outside views you speak of coming from other successful environments? (Ziebell not so much on that front)

It’s hard to believe anyone would think we’ve changed staff and talent without a strategic plan that’s continually measured, reviewed, and refined.

 

[Mr Magic]

Need to be patient for a couple more years at least. Those who are predicting fast improvement are setting it up so they can have a go at the club once again.

We are years away from the 2017-2020 era.

we need more top draftees first.

i think we are going okay, we are in the cycle, can't blame too many for that

my personal opinion see what happens in five years time then do a review. or if before something goes wildly wrong then maybe have a think and possible reset

 

[The Vaucluse]

Brendon Gales comment about not rebuilding was back in 2016. While he mentioned when he announced his departure that the club didn't need to rebuild that was more in relation to the club as a whole rather than the playing list, as he mentioned that we had a strong foundation, culture and leadership.

The list was always going to need to be rebuilt especially once we started to lose the core of Martin Cotchin Riewoldt initially and then had the departures of Rioli Bolton Graham & Baker also happening at the same time.

As far as the belief that the mens program is tracking nicely, well as mentioned above by Michaels we have lost an incredible amount of senior experience in the last 2-3 seasons as we transitioned from Hardwick to Yze and replaced them with a lot of unproven youth who have for the most part showed some promising signs in their first year under Yze where they managed to win 5 games following just 2 wins in his first year when we did have a lot more experience leading the way. To aid the next phase of the development of the playing group we have spent a bit of soft cap space to bring in more development coaches to fast track that.

Our list has gone from unbalanced and top heavy to a more well rounded list which will allow both the AFL & VFL sides to be able to play the same style and structure at both levels which will further aid the development of the team as a whole. After the mass exodus in 2024 where senior players who seemingly weren't prepared to buy in to a few tough years as we rebuilt we haven't really lost anyone that we wanted to keep with only Young(fringe KPD) to depart via trade.

As for having the plan detailed for members I'd have thought it was quite clear what the plan is and that is to rebuild the list so that we can win our next premiership. Hartley has been quite clear that the players being brought in via draft/trade/free agency are being done so with the aim for them to be part of the next premiership side, not just to get us out of the bottom 3. Yze has also been quite clear that he has a plan in place to slowly but surely build a side that can bring premiership success to the club. He has consistently said that there will be no shortcuts taken and that it is going to take time as we get the new breed up to that 50-75 games of experience.

Don't forget that it took Hardwick until his 4th season before we played finals and until his 8th before we won our first flag and it wasn't until after his 7th season that we had the big review and yet here we are, barely 3 months after Yze finished his first real season of his rebuild and you're asking for an external review, because a team that was widely expected to struggle to win a game in 2025 and win the spoon, managed to win 5 games and avoid the spoon.

You'd have thought the experience from the Hardwick years would have taught supporters that patience is required when you're building from the bottom, but apparently not all of us have learnt that.

I don’t think the club needs to complete a review into the men’s program, as it would be a waste of money, bit like a Royal Commission, but it would be interesting to understand why we couldn’t replicate the Geelong model and to a lesser extent Hawthorn. This can be done by supporters not the club, as I think those in the know at Tigerland, would have a pretty good idea about what went wrong.

In the short term I feel for Yze, as he’s been left to clean up the party after Hardwick mysteriously left the building, with a bag full of cash and a new lady on his arm.

 

[mhill]

Brendon Gales comment about not rebuilding was back in 2016. While he mentioned when he announced his departure that the club didn't need to rebuild that was more in relation to the club as a whole rather than the playing list, as he mentioned that we had a strong foundation, culture and leadership.

The list was always going to need to be rebuilt especially once we started to lose the core of Martin Cotchin Riewoldt initially and then had the departures of Rioli Bolton Graham & Baker also happening at the same time.

As far as the belief that the mens program is tracking nicely, well as mentioned above by Michaels we have lost an incredible amount of senior experience in the last 2-3 seasons as we transitioned from Hardwick to Yze and replaced them with a lot of unproven youth who have for the most part showed some promising signs in their first year under Yze where they managed to win 5 games following just 2 wins in his first year when we did have a lot more experience leading the way. To aid the next phase of the development of the playing group we have spent a bit of soft cap space to bring in more development coaches to fast track that.

Our list has gone from unbalanced and top heavy to a more well rounded list which will allow both the AFL & VFL sides to be able to play the same style and structure at both levels which will further aid the development of the team as a whole. After the mass exodus in 2024 where senior players who seemingly weren't prepared to buy in to a few tough years as we rebuilt we haven't really lost anyone that we wanted to keep with only Young(fringe KPD) to depart via trade.

As for having the plan detailed for members I'd have thought it was quite clear what the plan is and that is to rebuild the list so that we can win our next premiership. Hartley has been quite clear that the players being brought in via draft/trade/free agency are being done so with the aim for them to be part of the next premiership side, not just to get us out of the bottom 3. Yze has also been quite clear that he has a plan in place to slowly but surely build a side that can bring premiership success to the club. He has consistently said that there will be no shortcuts taken and that it is going to take time as we get the new breed up to that 50-75 games of experience.

Don't forget that it took Hardwick until his 4th season before we played finals and until his 8th before we won our first flag and it wasn't until after his 7th season that we had the big review and yet here we are, barely 3 months after Yze finished his first real season of his rebuild and you're asking for an external review, because a team that was widely expected to struggle to win a game in 2025 and win the spoon, managed to win 5 games and avoid the spoon.

You'd have thought the experience from the Hardwick years would have taught supporters that patience is required when you're building from the bottom, but apparently not all of us have learnt that.

“I get huge upside on what other teams have done. GWS have gone from the bottom half of the ladder to a prelim … that’s what we are going to strive to do.

“I want the players walking into the footy club thinking they can make the top four next year. I can’t wait to get started.” Yze

That’s the press conference where he was announced as coach.
I don’t blame the guy as he was obviously influenced by what the club said they were also thinking but that quote is 2 years old.
We employed him on that basis and must have thought the same thing otherwise he was/is the wrong man for the job.

Thing change, no problem but if we got it that wrong 2 years ago let’s not assume everything is all rosy now.

 

[_RT_]

“I get huge upside on what other teams have done. GWS have gone from the bottom half of the ladder to a prelim … that’s what we are going to strive to do.

“I want the players walking into the footy club thinking they can make the top four next year. I can’t wait to get started.” Yze

That’s the press conference where he was announced as coach.
I don’t blame the guy as he was obviously influenced by what the club said they were also thinking but that quote is 2 years old.
We employed him on that basis and must have thought the same thing otherwise he was/is the wrong man for the job.

Thing change, no problem but if we got it that wrong 2 years ago let’s not assume everything is all rosy now.

Where does it say we don't rebuild like you claimed?

When Yze was appointed he was never going to come in and say hey guys we're going to be finishing last and 2nd last in my first 2 years. He was always going to push the narrative that we will aim to climb the ladder to give hope to the average supporter, but it was clear as day that heading into 2024 that we were at the start of the rebuild having lost Riewoldt & Cotchin in 2023 and the likes of Grimes & Martin coming towards the end.

Now granted things changed drastically when the trade requests from Baker Rioli Bolton came in and Graham opted to take up the offer from WCE, plus the retirements of Grimes & Martin, but all that did was actually fast track the rebuild as it allowed us to bring in an unprecedented draft haul with 7 x R1 picks last year and another 2 top 10 picks this year.

It wasn't the club that got it wrong, but some supporters who misread coach speak to mean one thing, when the truth was there to see all along.

 

[Boxo004]

It’s interesting how many are “assuming” the club are doing things. If that’s the case, why wouldn’t the club share some of this work?
People seem very defensive about putting some scrutiny on what is an incredibly ambitious (but admirable) objective.
As I said, I am all for it with the right level of scrutiny

They just reappointed the coach. Guess they have done a review and shared the findings

 

[RockJobster0312]

T4L gets it.
Michaels - where did I say the review be completely external?
I pointed out tapping into external people helps us understand where the game is heading which then informs what we might need to tweak.
I gave examples of 4 ex Tiger premiership stars who are working at other afl clubs who are all currently doing very well. Let’s use them (the part timers like Cotchin) to understand what we might be missing.
All I am saying is let’s be open to other views and use those to make sure we don’t go in the wrong direction.
People get very complacent after a period of success.
Believe their own BS and get trapped in their own inertia.
The really good ones safeguard themselves by regularly checking into what is happening in the industry and using that to improve their longer term plans.

Noone can say we are leading edge at anything right now
Why not learn from others and avoid more time in the wilderness or are we seriously thinking we are above that?

External reviews - whilst looking at all aspects of a football club - generally focus on structure of operations and the football department.

See our 2016 review, Dogs in 2023 and the Dees in 2024.

Yze being the job for 24 months, Dunne for 12 months and the new fitness staff for 12 months, it’s way too premature to undertake a review for restructuring purposes.

In relation to understanding where the game is going etc. this happens every year. Every season is reviewed, and Yze has stated that he speaks to Adam Simpson regularly, as with the rest of his coaching tree. All coaches do this, and tap into their coaching tree/ mentors etc.

As said previously, clubs including our own will often bring in outside voices. Bruest and Duryea this year. Go back to Dimma insisting Grigg join another club to get a different perspective etc.

Just because most of it is informal doesn’t make any less impactful.

Additionally, as Rhy Geischan has said, they review the draft after five years, and Blair Hartley would have to provide updates and a presentation to the board; and that would include review and learnings.

There’s also no way any changes and resulting outcomes are going to be provided in a public forum.

 

[mhill]

The review is not for restructuring purposes. It’s to keep an eye on the progress of a massive undertaking which is to take a club from the bottom of the ladder to the top again.
I would do a major review every 2-3 years and get an external view that helps the club see a broader perspective than just their own. I would also like the club to start to articulate exactly what they are looking to achieve, when and the types of milestones we should expect to see along the way.
We haven’t seen anything for a long time that is visionary and perhaps that might help understand this next period better rather than the prevailing view which is “she’ll be apples”.

Remember, we went from the top to the bottom in just 3 years. Things change quickly.

 

[_RT_]

The review is not for restructuring purposes. It’s to keep an eye on the progress of a massive undertaking which is to take a club from the bottom of the ladder to the top again.
I would do a major review every 2-3 years and get an external view that helps the club see a broader perspective than just their own. I would also like the club to start to articulate exactly what they are looking to achieve, when and the types of milestones we should expect to see along the way.
We haven’t seen anything for a long time that is visionary and perhaps that might help understand this next period better rather than the prevailing view which is “she’ll be apples”.

Remember, we went from the top to the bottom in just 3 years. Things change quickly.

The club has articulated what they are trying to achieve and that is to fast track the development of the younger players by having them play as often as possible together alongside the extra development coaches that have been appointed. Yze has also mentioned that the wildcard round is a carrot for the playing group to try and achieve this year.

However most fans seems to be expecting another year where we're among the bottom 3 as we do focus more on long term development over wins and losses. That's not saying that we're going to be deliberately looking to lose games either, but with the focus on developing a side that can win a premiership you get the feeling that we will lose more than we win its just a fact of where we're at right now.

As others have said there is little to gain by holdong major external reviews every 2-3 years unless things are going horribly wrong, like winning a handful of games across 2-3 seasons and making little on field progress.

Fortunately we're not in that position at present we're entering the 3rd year overall and 2nd of the list rebuild under Yze and results versus expectations are pretty much aligned if not slightly ahead of schedule.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

in lieu of a review of the club here is my review of the dark knight 2, a movie i have never seen but pieced together from clips and memes:

in the dark night 2 chris nolan has created a true sequel to the other movie.
in this movie our friend batman gets snapped by a muscular gimp with a the worst russian accent youll ever hear in your entire life.
batwoman is also in this movie played by that weird looking chick, 0/10 faps.

overall i give babe 2 pig in the city 6/7.

 

[The_Kraken]

in lieu of a review of the club here is my review of the dark knight 2, a movie i have never seen but pieced together from clips and memes:

in the dark night 2 chris nolan has created a true sequel to the other movie.
in this movie our friend batman gets snapped by a muscular gimp with a the worst russian accent youll ever hear in your entire life.
batwoman is also in this movie played by that weird looking chick, 0/10 faps.

overall i give babe 2 pig in the city 6/7.

Not sure if you’re David, Margaret, or Fenella, but I’m giving you ️️️️ out of ️️️️️.

 

[Daka]

We’re in a rebuild, which usually takes time, so that’s why. Have a look over the list and the number of kids we have in the side. A full review right now would be a waste of time and money.

Yep, the jury is still out on some of the players we have drafted, even Blair & Rhy agreed that 3-4 years we review the players that we took, and judge them on it.

It's literally pointless to actual get someone from outside to look at the club when we just started our rebuild.
External review would mean we are admitting we have already stuffed up? which that doesn't seem the case.

 

[tigs2010]

in lieu of a review of the club here is my review of the dark knight 2, a movie i have never seen but pieced together from clips and memes:

in the dark night 2 chris nolan has created a true sequel to the other movie.
in this movie our friend batman gets snapped by a muscular gimp with a the worst russian accent youll ever hear in your entire life.
batwoman is also in this movie played by that weird looking chick, 0/10 faps.

overall i give babe 2 pig in the city 6/7.

Preferred Bane in Mobland

 

[mhill]

in lieu of a review of the club here is my review of the dark knight 2, a movie i have never seen but pieced together from clips and memes:

in the dark night 2 chris nolan has created a true sequel to the other movie.
in this movie our friend batman gets snapped by a muscular gimp with a the worst russian accent youll ever hear in your entire life.
batwoman is also in this movie played by that weird looking chick, 0/10 faps.

overall i give babe 2 pig in the city 6/7.

In light of the subject, can you please submit of review of the Kevin Costner classic “Horizon”?

 

[RJK Tiger]

There isn’t anything to review though..

You’re almost searching for things that aren’t there.

We won more than double the games of 2024 against ALL expectations.

Not sure what else people actually want or expect in a fully fledged rebuild.


We need to let things settle and take its course, the club are constantly looking at ways to improve and innovate.

If you reckon there is nothing to review then you are on a different planet.

You lost 1600 games of experience and gained none.

We have had a entire generation request a trade out the door. Castagna literally walked away from the game at 25 noting "he lost the passion" & doesnt even have a qualification in something else that would allow him to earn close to what he could have earned playing AFL.

Former players have flocked to partner with Dimma at the Gold Coast, while our players all have ran to West Coast to team up with Mini.

Our medical team have failed in being able to allow our players to have "long careers", while also failing to be able to develop many of the younger blokes to be able to handle AFL & that has not really seen a massive improvement this year.
Gibcus. Clarke, Smillie - all showing signs of chronic injury body issues young & us not being able to get on top of it to allow them to prosper.

We have had more players require police involvement than any other club over the past 7 years

We have had more players lose games from reports than any other club over the past 7 years.

Our head coach had an affair with a staff member that, literally, broke the club "brotherhood" ethos.

That same head-coach quit mid-contract citing exhaustion, only to sign a new contract elsewhere within 3 months.

2024-25 represents the wost w/l ratio the club has held in my lifetime.

I think the club has been riding on the success and trust built by others for a very long time.

Balme, who was our literal canary in the cage, is now working in Adelaide alongside Titch Edwards. And you can tell, Balmey did not like this new group. I trust Neil Balme more than anyone this club has here atm.


And i've said several times, the constant flow of blokes requesting trades out, should be a concern. Our blokes are not leaving to win flags. They left to go to a team worse than us, but coached by our old coaches.

My fear is the club is replacing one purple circle with another. What OP is stating is not even a offensive comment. Its saying to review these issues BEFORE it becomes a big problem, which is smart. Purple Circles are, the worst, thing for any organisation. America has become one big, fat Purple/Orange Circle, and look how bad things can go when unchecked.

If clubs did these openly every 3-5 years, as a standard process - it would be far smarter than just doing it once the shit hits the fan. The point is to not let the poop hit the fan.