When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

[Soggy2112]

And we could just as easily be 9-0.

Definitely take your point about winning with conviction though. Not ruthless enough atm.

Is it a matter of ruthlessness or just game style.

Blues are currently scoring heavily from stoppages but they’re also conceding heavily. If you compare that style to the teams who are preferring to play territory and score from turnover, it’s much harder to control the game for long periods, particularly when you come up against a side like Melbourne who you will never be able to dominate the clearance numbers against them.

 

[T2B_]

Is it a matter of ruthlessness or just game style.

Blues are currently scoring heavily from stoppages but they’re also conceding heavily. If you compare that style to the teams who are preferring to play territory and score from turnover, it’s much harder to control the game for long periods, particularly when you come up against a side like Melbourne who you will never be able to dominate the clearance numbers against them.

We also have a very taxing game style. We try to mitigate it somewhat with multiple elite endurance runners, but carrying a few underdone players or not great runners in general can upset the balance a bit.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Blues are completely clueless about how to handle those last ten minutes

Still a long way off

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[bourbons]

Is it a matter of ruthlessness or just game style.

Blues are currently scoring heavily from stoppages but they’re also conceding heavily. If you compare that style to the teams who are preferring to play territory and score from turnover, it’s much harder to control the game for long periods, particularly when you come up against a side like Melbourne who you will never be able to dominate the clearance numbers against them.

Yep agree, I don't think we'll be a legit flag chance until we sort out our turnover game or at least can consistently score from a source other than clearances.

As someone said in the other thread, probably still a year away from truly contending.

 

[Soggy2112]

We also have a very taxing game style. We try to mitigate it somewhat with multiple elite endurance runners, but carrying a few underdone players or not great runners in general can upset the balance a bit.

I think that comes with the emphasis on scoring from stoppages. Players are constantly running up and back, whereas a side like Geelong who take a more defensive approach at stoppages are able to hold position and give themselves more rest time while on the ground.

I’m not a Blues hater, they are one of the more dangerous sides in the comp. However, I do think they style of game they’re playing leaves them vulnerable to sides scoring in bunches. This makes me wonder whether it’s realistic to expect them to win 3 games against top four opponents in the finals.

Particularly when it comes to close games. Keeping the ball in tight and not allowing scores from stoppages should be first priority for a team with the lead, however in both the Adelaide and Collingwood loss that’s where they conceded the decisive goal.

 

[T2B_]

I think that comes with the emphasis on scoring from stoppages. Players are constantly running up and back, whereas a side like Geelong who take a more defensive approach at stoppages are able to hold position and give themselves more rest time while on the ground.

I’m not a Blues hater, they are one of the more dangerous sides in the comp. However, I do think they style of game they’re playing leaves them vulnerable to sides scoring in bunches. This makes me wonder whether it’s realistic to expect them to win 3 games against top four opponents in the finals.

Particularly when it comes to close games. Keeping the ball in tight and not allowing scores from stoppages should be first priority for a team with the lead, however in both the Adelaide and Collingwood loss that’s where they conceded the decisive goal.

No, it's a fair analysis. Need more of it from oppo fans on this board.

We still have some things to work on no doubt. Its why Voss and co have been trying to work on the turnover game, but its not there yet and we often have to revert to our stoppage game.

 

[Worm4]

Blues are completely clueless about how to handle those last ten minutes

Still a long way off

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Long way off , yet still winning games.
Can't wait to see how much damage they can do when they actually get a clue about gameplans.
Thanks for your thoughtful insight as to how far Carlton are actually off the pace. Means there is plenty of room to improve.

 

[Arr0w]

It's arbitrary to you because you want it to be. For people who have knowledge, consistency is self evident in results that occur over time.

Despite the win/loss, I think we have shown reasonable consistency, 3 losses but 13 points or under

Start of the year I has us in that 13-16 win range, I think we are there abouts

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Blues are completely clueless about how to handle those last ten minutes

Still a long way off

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

10-1-2 in games decided by under two goals since the beginning of 2023.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

10-1-2 in games decided by under two goals since the beginning of 2023.

Those are just numbers... it's the VIBE

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[bradfisher14]

Is it a matter of ruthlessness or just game style.

Blues are currently scoring heavily from stoppages but they’re also conceding heavily. If you compare that style to the teams who are preferring to play territory and score from turnover, it’s much harder to control the game for long periods, particularly when you come up against a side like Melbourne who you will never be able to dominate the clearance numbers against them.

You’ve definitely got a point and I would prefer us to play a more balanced style like we did in our first four games.

The lack of ruthlessness I was referring to is when we’re defending. Feels like we cough up so many cheap goals that should be regulation spoils/rushed behinds. Momentum swings against us when those go through.

 

[btdg]

Is it a matter of ruthlessness or just game style.

Blues are currently scoring heavily from stoppages but they’re also conceding heavily. If you compare that style to the teams who are preferring to play territory and score from turnover, it’s much harder to control the game for long periods, particularly when you come up against a side like Melbourne who you will never be able to dominate the clearance numbers against them.

This argument about playing style is true... but as a counterpoint, is there another team in the comp that has beaten Melbourne in 3 straight matches?

Our big issue is a lack of an ability to counterattack end to end. We are very good in stoppages and very good when we get the ball deep. But when the other team is pressing we are bad at going end to end. Mid game, we use a cautious build up, bomb.it long to the big boys and it works.

But it is particularly noticeable when trying to protect a 2 or 3 goal lead against good opposition when they are in 'throw caution to the wind' mode a la Melbourne on Thursday. Most teams in that scenario defend deep, and eventually break free the other way and kick a settler that can break the oppositon run. We... defend deep quite well, but often just don't get that killer blow, and so the game gets tighter and tighter. We have a great record in those tight games of hanging on (8-2 in our last 16.matches, inckuding a couple where we came from behind). But it would be a lot kess stressful if we just put teams away.

But then again, in our last 22 matches we have gone 17-5 and beaten all of Mebourne x3, Brisbane, Port, GWS, Sydney, etc. So i don't really know...

I assume the coaching staff also.understand this and are just starting to practice that counterattack. Layer it in and things will get interesting in a very even year

 

[Elmer_Judd]

We are one quality Key Position Defender Short (too much is asked of Weitering) and maybe another quality, two way running midfielder short of being a legit flag threat..
Regardless given where we were as a football club before Cook and Vossy arrived, I am very happy and not taking anything for granted.

I am not even thinking about winning flags at this stage, just happy to be winning more games than not and being in the finals mix on a regular basis these days (something that hasn't happened for well over 20 years at our club)

We are still a work in progress with some kids (aka Brodie Kemp) in our best 22 with
some learning and growth to do.

I have to admire the rise and growth of Tom De Koning

12

Tom De Koning

Age

24

Ht

201cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.0

4star

CL

0.5

2star

HO

1.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.0

4star

CL

0.5

3star

HO

1.5

5star

this season has been fantastic, as has the return of Marc Pittonet

27

Marc Pittonet

Age

28

Ht

202cm

Wt

107kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.7

2star

K

2.9

1star

HB

4.8

3star

CL

3.1

5star

HO

22.3

5star

D

8.6

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.0

3star

CL

3.7

5star

HO

25.9

5star

D

5.8

2star

K

1.2

1star

HB

4.6

4star

CL

2.4

5star

HO

16.6

5star

as a true trencherman.

Sam Walsh

18

Sam Walsh

Age

23

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.1

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.2

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

10.8

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

4.8

5star

has been nothing short of remarkable since his return and will only get better.

 

[Soggy2112]

This argument about playing style is true... but as a counterpoint, is there another team in the comp that has beaten Melbourne in 3 straight matches?

Our big issue is a lack of an ability to counterattack end to end. We are very good in stoppages and very good when we get the ball deep. But when the other team is pressing we are bad at going end to end. Mid game, we use a cautious build up, bomb.it long to the big boys and it works.

But it is particularly noticeable when trying to protect a 2 or 3 goal lead against good opposition when they are in 'throw caution to the wind' mode a la Melbourne on Thursday. Most teams in that scenario defend deep, and eventually break free the other way and kick a settler that can break the oppositon run. We... defend deep quite well, but often just don't get that killer blow, and so the game gets tighter and tighter. We have a great record in those tight games of hanging on (8-2 in our last 16.matches, inckuding a couple where we came from behind). But it would be a lot kess stressful if we just put teams away.

But then again, in our last 22 matches we have gone 17-5 and beaten all of Mebourne x3, Brisbane, Port, GWS, Sydney, etc. So i don't really know...

I assume the coaching staff also.understand this and are just starting to practice that counterattack. Layer it in and things will get interesting in a very even year

It’s the conceding from stoppages I see as the concern. Every stoppage is basically a roll of the dice for the Blues at the moment. They’re essentially gambling that they’ll be able to win enough clearances to come out on top. I guess when push comes to shove and every top 4 team has a high quality midfield it’s a big ask that you’ll be able to win 3 in a row. I think it’s kinda like batters like Head and Marsh in cricket. They give bowlers a chance but back their ability that it’s going to work more than it fails. Difference is making runs 2 out of 3 innings is good, winning 2 out of 3 finals doesn’t get you a flag.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

They could just as likely be 2-7 right now and in the bottom 4 without a great run of luck in close ones at the moment.

Need to see them winning with some certainty before they are considered contenders.

Could have easily not made finals last year, but we did and won 2 out of 3 finals.
We're 17-4 since the Essendon loss that turned our season around last year and 17-6 over the last 23 (length of a H&A season).

It's a fair point about winning with certainty. We tend not to put teams away, but Pies didn't put anyone away in the 2nd half of 2022, then won the flag the next year.

 

[Aphrodite]

They could just as likely be 2-7 right now and in the bottom 4 without a great run of luck in close ones at the moment.

Need to see them winning with some certainty before they are considered contenders.

But we are not!

 

[bourbons]

Those are just numbers... it's the VIBE

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Thanks Dennis

 

[Chief]

They could just as likely be 2-7 right now and in the bottom 4 without a great run of luck in close ones at the moment.

Need to see them winning with some certainty before they are considered contenders.

This is the trap I fell into underestimating Collingwood. "Their luck has to run out some time."

It didn't.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

This is the trap I fell into underestimating Collingwood. "Their luck has to run out some time."

It didn't.

It did in 2022. They just got lucky last year

 

[Taper]

Yep agree, I don't think we'll be a legit flag chance until we sort out our turnover game or at least can consistently score from a source other than clearances.

As someone said in the other thread, probably still a year away from truly contending.

Carlton need a small forward, ruckman and outside midfielder.
It's ironic because the Carlton sides under Ratten had players in abundance for these positions.

 

[bradfisher14]

Carlton need a small forward, ruckman and outside midfielder.
It's ironic because the Carlton sides under Ratten had players in abundance for these positions.

I would give everything to see prime Betts, Yarran, Garlett, and Walker in the forward line with Harry and Charlie.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Perhaps they've peaked

 

[Dangerousfield]

Despite the win/loss, I think we have shown reasonable consistency, 3 losses but 13 points or under

Start of the year I has us in that 13-16 win range, I think we are there abouts

Didn't age well

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Didn't age well

No reason why Carlton cant win 13 games this year

 

[adammania9]

What stands out to me with Carlton is how few players they have that are competent in two positions. If things aren’t peachy, what pieces do you move around to change a game? I can’t think of many positional moves that can win Carlton a game. You can’t throw Cripps, Cerra or Walsh forward, you can’t put Saad or Williams in the guts. You probably can but wouldn’t throw McGovern forward. You can’t throw Martin or Acres in the guts.

The last two premiership teams had dual position players coming out of their backsides. Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

is absolutely obsessed with them. And for good reason. It makes sides unpredictable when they can move around players frequently and efficiently.

It’s a cliche to say a coach has no plan B but it’s what I see with Voss and Carlton. They have a quality team but they need to excel in their primary role because what alternative is there?