When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[LordLucifer]

I’ll be shocked if Teague is still coaching the Carlton Football Club next season.

I'll be mortified !!

 

[LordLucifer]

When does Jack Martin start coming under any sort of heat? I haven't seen him have any kind of impact in a game of football since his debut with the club last year. Doesn't win the ball, doesn't apply pressure, doesn't kick goals. May as well not even be out there at the moment.

I've been on his case for weeks, misses too many set shots inside 50 and refuses to chase hard enough when the opposition has the ball.

Undoubtedly has some talent but picks & chooses when to deliver it, he's another Chris Yarran.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

When does Jack Martin start coming under any sort of heat? I haven't seen him have any kind of impact in a game of football since his debut with the club last year. Doesn't win the ball, doesn't apply pressure, doesn't kick goals. May as well not even be out there at the moment.

Was rushed back straight into the ones after 2+ months out injured. Hasn’t got near it since and is clearly underdone. A perfect example of our current selection integrity.

 

[Soapy V]

SOS parting gift to the list.

The talent is there and I liked that we got him at the time but he is an example of standards at the club

 

[CarltonBlooz]

The talent is there and I liked that we got him at the time but he is an example of standards at the club

Your wish list Soap?

New coach and assistants and god forbid selection integrity?

Curious of your thoughts.

 

[Soapy V]

Your wish list Soap?

New coach and assistants and god forbid selection integrity?

Curious of your thoughts.

My personal opinion is Clarkson would be great as he would sort so much out including culture and standards. As for Assistants then it's whoever they want. As long as they get along and cover tactics, game plan etc. Names like Leppitsch, Yze, Newman sound good

I think picking a strong Head of Football is just as important as the Coach. Also, someone focusing on Skills. Badly needed. I would love Mark Williams in charge of Development and Skills.

We have so much right at the club. Just need to get the football department up to scratch

This is the biggest moment at the club since the rebuild started. I just hope we get it right

 

[CarltonBlooz]

My personal opinion is Clarkson would be great as he would sort so much out including culture and standards. As for Assistants then it's whoever they want. As long as they get along and cover tactics, game plan etc. Names like Leppitsch, Yze, Newman sound good

I think picking a strong Head of Football is just as important as the Coach. Also, someone focusing on Skills. Badly needed. I would love Mark Williams in charge of Development and Skills.

We have so much right at the club. Just need to get the football department up to scratch

This is the biggest moment at the club since the rebuild started. I just hope we get it right

Would be nice to snag Clarkson, but he seems like an honorable man and will stick with the contract, I'm sure we'll try throw a bajillion dollars at him, will be interesting next few months.

I agree, Brad Lloyd being head of football is such a campaigner of a head scratcher, how can you from list management to head of football ffs.

Someone on the Carlton board made the joke, we own the training wheels bike store.

Choco would of been nice, but surely Power is good too?

Imo we will go with Teague and persist next year with new assistants and a new head of football, why didn't we do this earlier ffs? You can criticize Teague for many things but the support has been average at best or we'll go all in on Clarkson if available.

I agree, I hope we get it right too, rotting in the wilderness with the list, no thanks.

Appreciate the reply mate.

 

[Soapy V]

Would be nice to snag Clarkson, but he seems like an honorable man and will stick with the contract, I'm sure we'll try throw a bajillion dollars at him, will be interesting next few months.

I agree, Brad Lloyd being head of football is such a campaigner of a head scratcher, how can you from list management to head of football ffs.

Someone on the Carlton board made the joke, we own the training wheels bike store.

Choco would of been nice, but surely Power is good too?

Imo we will go with Teague and persist next year with new assistants and a new head of football, why didn't we do this earlier ffs? You can criticize Teague for many things but the support has been average at best or we'll go all in on Clarkson if available.

I agree, I hope we get it right too, rotting in the wilderness with the list, no thanks.

Appreciate the reply mate.

Fair comments

Power I believe wants to be an Assistant Coach. Williams is just awesome with developing younger players and that is a major weakness at the moment. He will stay at Melbourne but we can hope.

I think Teague selection was poor (no process) but he definitely hasn't been supported either. Personally I don't think he is the coach for us. If we want to fix things we need a clean out

 

[CarltonBlooz]

Fair comments

Power I believe wants to be an Assistant Coach. Williams is just awesome with developing younger players and that is a major weakness at the moment.

I think Teague selection was poor (no process) but he definitely hasn't been supported either. Personally I don't think he is the coach for us. If we want to fix things we need a clean out

Fair comment yourself, Power as midfield coach would be devine, but think we're stuck with him as development.

Agree on the Teague selection, Murphy, Setterfield, Martin, McGovern etc etc, heard rumour on Carlton board about kids not being impressed and potentially requesting a trade end of year, really hope that isn't true.

Yeah, interesting dilemma to find ones self in as a football club, I've deviated from the Teague train but rustles my jimmies we never gave him the proper support.

I'm sure you're familiar with Barass on Carlton board, he alluded around May, Brad Lloyd wasn't giving Teague support he needed and setting him up to fail and look what's happened.

 

[Soapy V]

Agree on the Teague selection, Murphy, Setterfield, Martin, McGovern etc etc, heard rumour on Carlton board about kids not being impressed and potentially requesting a trade end of year, really hope that isn't true.

A number of younger players are looking at options for next year. It's one reason why the review was called early. If Teague stays many will go. That is just a fact. The main reason is the confusing messages

The other point is Teague got his way (supported by Liddle) with Betts and Murphy over SOS (which caused SOS to leave). SOS wanted to move past the older players and back the future. He was also angry with the way the young talent was being developed and played. Teague promised his mates Betts Murphy they would stay. As good as they have been we needed to back the rebuild. Also, Cripps & Docherty wanted the chance to lead "their" side and feel they can't with the older players still a significant influence especially around standards. It has effected both of them badly.

The biggest issue for me is the lack of standards and development of our list. How Williams, Martin, McGovern etc keep getting games when either not fit or putting in defies logic and damages the culture. SPS Dow O'Brien Fisher Setterfield Fogarty Williamson etc are a lot better and talented than they are showing.

I am a massive fan of Kemp & Carroll but I don't want them in this side at the moment

The standards around the club are poor and if that doesn't change nothing will.

 

[CarltonBlooz]

A number of younger players are looking at options for next year. It's one reason why the review was called early. If Teague stays many will go. That is just a fact. The main reason is the confusing messages

The other point is Teague got his way (supported by Liddle) with Betts and Murphy over SOS (which caused SOS to leave). SOS wanted to move past the older players and back the future. He was also angry with the way the young talent was being developed and played. Teague promised his mates Betts Murphy they would stay. As good as they have been we needed to back the rebuild. Also, Cripps & Docherty wanted the chance to lead "their" side and feel they can't with the older players still a significant influence especially around standards. It has effected both of them badly.

The biggest issue for me is the lack of standards and development of our list. How Williams, Martin, McGovern etc keep getting games when either not fit or putting in defies logic and damages the culture. SPS Dow O'Brien Fisher Setterfield Fogarty Williamson etc are a lot better and talented than they are showing.

I am a massive fan of Kemp & Carroll but I don't want them in this side at the moment

The standards around the club are poor and if that doesn't change nothing will.

Wow, I really hope the youngins stick fat and don't jump ship, development is bad enough without people bailing cause of poor selection integrity.

Been a recurring rumour that Teague has been arguing with Russell and playing people unfit and without match fitness and being at detriment to the kids.

Feel for Cripps and Doch, both top tier servants of the club and that would be garbage if they were let down from the people supposed to back them up.

Like you said before, really seems like we're at incredibly pertinent crossroads like we've ever been before.

Big fan of Kemp, top tier utility that should be A++ for years to come and Carroll seems rock solid in the VFL.

Regardless what Carlton supporters think of SOS, to have Liddle say he'd sabotage the trade/draft period is shameful, yet another blunder from the board, how do you go from CCO to CEO, ffs Carlton.

If we don't get rid of the old guard at the off-season that'll tell you all you need to know, just hope the review gets things right.

When we first got Liddle, legit thought he was Richmond's CEO and he came to us, how I was a silly campaigner.

 

[Davey33]

I've been on his case for weeks, misses too many set shots inside 50 and refuses to chase hard enough when the opposition has the ball.

Undoubtedly has some talent but picks & chooses when to deliver it, he's another Chris Yarran.

HE'S NOTHING LIKE Chris Yarran.
Yarran was a very good player with some occasional down times, Martin has delivered nothing close to what Yarran did either as a forward or defensive sweeper.

 

[SurreyBlue]

A number of younger players are looking at options for next year. It's one reason why the review was called early. If Teague stays many will go. That is just a fact. The main reason is the confusing messages

The other point is Teague got his way (supported by Liddle) with Betts and Murphy over SOS (which caused SOS to leave). SOS wanted to move past the older players and back the future. He was also angry with the way the young talent was being developed and played. Teague promised his mates Betts Murphy they would stay. As good as they have been we needed to back the rebuild. Also, Cripps & Docherty wanted the chance to lead "their" side and feel they can't with the older players still a significant influence especially around standards. It has effected both of them badly.

The biggest issue for me is the lack of standards and development of our list. How Williams, Martin, McGovern etc keep getting games when either not fit or putting in defies logic and damages the culture. SPS Dow O'Brien Fisher Setterfield Fogarty Williamson etc are a lot better and talented than they are showing.

I am a massive fan of Kemp & Carroll but I don't want them in this side at the moment

The standards around the club are poor and if that doesn't change nothing will.

Bingo. Culture.
It starts off-field with CFC and the CEO is the main person being ignored in these conversations. He has surrounded himself with yes men (Lloyd) who let him control the narrative. Sweep through off field and get the right people in place to set the standards and watch it unfold in the positive, leave it as is and hand back the keys - we are done.

 

[Yubby]

A number of younger players are looking at options for next year. It's one reason why the review was called early. If Teague stays many will go. That is just a fact. The main reason is the confusing messages

The other point is Teague got his way (supported by Liddle) with Betts and Murphy over SOS (which caused SOS to leave). SOS wanted to move past the older players and back the future. He was also angry with the way the young talent was being developed and played. Teague promised his mates Betts Murphy they would stay. As good as they have been we needed to back the rebuild. Also, Cripps & Docherty wanted the chance to lead "their" side and feel they can't with the older players still a significant influence especially around standards. It has effected both of them badly.

The biggest issue for me is the lack of standards and development of our list. How Williams, Martin, McGovern etc keep getting games when either not fit or putting in defies logic and damages the culture. SPS Dow O'Brien Fisher Setterfield Fogarty Williamson etc are a lot better and talented than they are showing.

I am a massive fan of Kemp & Carroll but I don't want them in this side at the moment

The standards around the club are poor and if that doesn't change nothing will.

Thanks for sharing as always Soapy.

When you talk about younger players looking at options for next year, this concerns me so i'm keen to understand which gorup of young players are we talking about? Are we talking about those that are younger but been around a few years and are in and out of the team like Dow, SPS, Williamson, Cottrell, Setters... or are we more talking about the next group who aren't really being given any opportunities at all this year despite reasonable VFL form like Honey, Ramsay, LOB, Carroll, Kemp?

 

[Soapy V]

Bingo. Culture.
It starts off-field with CFC and the CEO is the main person being ignored in these conversations. He has surrounded himself with yes men (Lloyd) who let him control the narrative. Sweep through off field and get the right people in place to set the standards and watch it unfold in the positive, leave it as is and hand back the keys - we are done.

Why we need a strong Head of Football. Needs to run Football Dept and Liddle runs off field

 

[Soapy V]

HE'S NOTHING LIKE Chris Yarran.
Yarran was a very good player with some occasional down times, Martin has delivered nothing close to what Yarran did either as a forward or defensive sweeper.

Yarran also had other serious issues

 

[Soapy V]

Thanks for sharing as always Soapy.

When you talk about younger players looking at options for next year, this concerns me so i'm keen to understand which gorup of young players are we talking about? Are we talking about those that are younger but been around a few years and are in and out of the team like Dow, SPS, Williamson, Cottrell, Setters... or are we more talking about the next group who aren't really being given any opportunities at all this year despite reasonable VFL form like Honey, Ramsay, LOB, Carroll, Kemp?

Bit of everything. Many are looking at direction of club and coaching before committing. I don’t expect a mass walkout or such just many considering their options. I think one or two may go

A big change in Football Dept could well change things

 

[Davey33]

A number of younger players are looking at options for next year. It's one reason why the review was called early. If Teague stays many will go. That is just a fact. The main reason is the confusing messages

The other point is Teague got his way (supported by Liddle) with Betts and Murphy over SOS (which caused SOS to leave). SOS wanted to move past the older players and back the future. He was also angry with the way the young talent was being developed and played. Teague promised his mates Betts Murphy they would stay. As good as they have been we needed to back the rebuild. Also, Cripps & Docherty wanted the chance to lead "their" side and feel they can't with the older players still a significant influence especially around standards. It has effected both of them badly.

The biggest issue for me is the lack of standards and development of our list. How Williams, Martin, McGovern etc keep getting games when either not fit or putting in defies logic and damages the culture. SPS Dow O'Brien Fisher Setterfield Fogarty Williamson etc are a lot better and talented than they are showing.

I am a massive fan of Kemp & Carroll but I don't want them in this side at the moment

The standards around the club are poor and if that doesn't change nothing will.

Williamson has been good in the two games he played.
More like the Williamson of a couple of years ago.

 

[Davey33]

Yarran also had other serious issues

True. I was talking on the field not off.

 

[Soapy V]

Williamson has been good in the two games he played.
More like the Williamson of a couple of years ago.

Willo like Dow, Kennedy & SPS have been given a chance because of injury. Amazing what can happen when you give them a chance and in their right roles

 

[Davey33]

True. I was talking on the field not off.

It's a shame he couldn't get the appropriate help with those issues and continue his career.
Another serious talent wasted.

 

[windyhill]

It's a shame he couldn't get the appropriate help with those issues and continue his career.
Another serious talent wasted.

A very rare footballer, one who seemed to do as he pleased on the field which is not often seen.

 

[NicW]

Jack Silvagni nearly did enough yesterday to make Pittonet's role in the team surplus, I just don't see what he brings to the table.

Owies has worked hard to get to where he is and is one of our more consistent players, I'm not one of his rusted on fans he needs to be rewarded for performance.

I've given up on Gibbons & Newnes, they are not the future and never will be.

Is Josh Honey gonna get a crack?
Is he up to it?

 

[Yubby]

Bit of everything. Many are looking at direction of club and coaching before committing. I don’t expect a mass walkout or such just many considering their options. I think one or two may go

A big change in Football Dept could well change things

Fingers crossed the review squarely identifies the concerns the players have and are willing to address them rather than dismiss them. If Teague stays it sounds like the younger players may feel that some of their concerns will remain as it appears they lack someone to advocate for them in match committee or place pressure on Teague to have integrity of selection. Ultimately a few list management decisions may be the catalyst to resolve some of the issues rather than changes at match committee which might be just papering over the cracks somewhat.

As an aside, do you know how it's come about that we've started to finally play our younger players in their natural positions? Has someone placed pressure on Teague? Of course Stocker being the exception as he's doing well in defense atm.

 

[Pistol Night]

Is Josh Honey gonna get a crack?
Is he up to it?

Good on the spread apparently