Where are our emerging Key position players on our list?

[MyManLynch]

There was also talk of Murphy potentially developing into a key def

190cm

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

+ Madgen

Pffft

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Lo

Long term I believe Moore will go forward again, once Kelly breaks into the side with Keane (if he makes it) becoming our two tall key backs.Hopefully our draft strategy going forward is to focus on tall key position talent and speedy small forward types, indigenous players please!

Long term I don't think Moore is going to be available at the pointy end of the season. I doubt we will see much more of Moore this year. Until he proves resilient, factoring him in to the discussion doesn't allow for a totally realistic assessment of our KPPs.

 

[Sea fog]

Long term I don't think Moore is going to be available at the pointy end of the season. I doubt we will see much more of Moore this year. Until he proves resilient, factoring him in to the discussion doesn't allow for a totally realistic assessment of our KPPs.

So TGG, the only strategy then would be to trade him, but he's devalued his potential this year with the injuries so doubt we would earn much in return.

 

[Sea fog]

190cm

195 cm he is expected to grow to by all reports but his body is still skinny.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

So TGG, the only strategy then would be to trade him, but he's devalued his potential this year with the injuries so doubt we would earn much in return.

Or he needs to come back after the usual 4 weeks from his hamstring injury and play out the rest of the season. If he doesn't, he will hardly have trade value and will leave a hole in our defence. He needs to play a useful role again this year to be considered an important part of our future KPP structure. He is our only first round KPP pick and we need him to show that he will not be plagued by injury throughout the remainder of his career.

 

[Sea fog]

Or he needs to come back after the usual 4 weeks from his hamstring injury and play out the rest of the season. If he doesn't, he will hardly have trade value and will leave a hole in our defence. He needs to play a useful role again this year to be considered an important part of our future KPP structure. He is our only first round KPP pick and we need him to show that he will not be plagued by injury throughout the remainder of his career.

Fair enough, I think you would have been happy for him to be traded last year to the Swans from memory. I think he will be plagued by injury because he has that sort of athletic build. Compare him with Grundy who has that stronger, lower centre of gravity build. He did not have a hammy injury until he came to Collingwood though so it is unfortunate that he developed these at this level. I agree with you that we can't afford someone who is such a risk on the list though. With low trade value, his only option might be retirement like some of the AFL players who leave the game because of chronic injuries. With Roughie coming we don't really miss him as much as we did last year with having to resort to Goldy.

 

[Nuffsaid]

Our recruiters just don’t value using high draft picks on kpps which I find astounding.

 

[Somebody]

Our recruiters just don’t value using high draft picks on kpps which I find astounding.

Good KPF's seem to be much rarer than any other kind of player which would make them the most valuable. KPD's not so much, but even they maybe harder to find than good midfielders.

 

[Ugene41]

We just need to play Scharenberg as a KPD or KPF. Same height (191cm) as Jack Darling. Charlie Curnow is only 192cm. De Goey and Stephenson are also the modern day FF at that 188cm-190cm height so not too stressed.

Future spine of:
FB: Scharenberg
CHB: Will Kelly
CHF: Moore
FF: De Goey/Stephenson

And top up with cheap role players like Roughhead/Dunn/Mihocek.

3 weeks ago we were stressing about how we were gonna play Reid/Mihocek/Cox in the same forward line cause none of them deserved to be dropped.

 

[manicpie]

We just need to play Scharenberg as a KPD or KPF. Same height (191cm) as Jack Darling. Charlie Curnow is only 192cm. De Goey and Stephenson are also the modern day FF at that 188cm-190cm height so not too stressed.

Future spine of:
FB: Scharenberg
CHB: Will Kelly
CHF: Moore
FF: De Goey/Stephenson

And top up with cheap role players like Roughhead/Dunn/Mihocek.

3 weeks ago we were stressing about how we were gonna play Reid/Mihocek/Cox in the same forward line cause none of them deserved to be dropped.

It might look good on paper but:
Shaz = 3 knee reco's
Kelly = unproven and tore his hamstring off the bone
Moore = tissue paper hamstrings

Your spine scares the s**t out of me and doesn't scream Premiership, we need to recruit back up players for those 3

 

[Ugene41]

It might look good on paper but:
Shaz = 3 knee reco's
Kelly = unproven and tore his hamstring off the bone
Moore = tissue paper hamstrings

Your spine scares the s**t out of me and doesn't scream Premiership, we need to recruit back up players for those 3

Yes of course, I did mention we need to top up with the likes of Dunn/Roughhead/Mihoceks etc. But in terms of emerging top end talents we do have those. Our second rounder this year should be targeting key position talent and trade our 4th round for another Roughhead type

 

[greening22]

and Risky One as they are long shots of Making it.

Having not many 1st Rounders does make it hard to draft Good Tall Prospects

The latter restriction does not seem to have affected sides such as Hawthorn who drafted Mitch Lewis - 6' 6" and already about 94 kilos - at pick 76 in the 2016 AFL draft. He is already playing at centre-half forward - and so one of the most difficult positions on the field - and getting better each week as evidenced by his last few games. I believe that there are some potential key forwards out there and not necessarily limited to the National Draft and/or Rookie Draft. I just get the impression that the Collingwood brains trust do not place a lot of priority on seeking them out. Am I wrong?

 

[jackcass]

It might look good on paper but:
Shaz = 3 knee reco's
Kelly = unproven and tore his hamstring off the bone
Moore = tissue paper hamstrings

Your spine scares the s**t out of me and doesn't scream Premiership, we need to recruit back up players for those 3

Kelly is projected to be back in the next couple of weeks so I doubt his hammy was torn off the bone.

 

[manicpie]

Kelly is projected to be back in the next couple of weeks so I doubt his hammy was torn off the bone.

He has missed 10 weeks, not bad for a hammy

 

[jackcass]

The latter restriction does not seem to have affected sides such as Hawthorn who drafted Mitch Lewis - 6' 6" and already about 94 kilos - at pick 76 in the 2016 AFL draft. He is already playing at centre-half forward - and so one of the most difficult positions on the field - and getting better each week as evidenced by his last few games. I believe that there are some potential key forwards out there and not necessarily limited to the National Draft and/or Rookie Draft. I just get the impression that the Collingwood brains trust do not place a lot of priority on seeking them out. Am I wrong?

We took Sam McLarty with our 1st live pick at pick 30 or 31 in 2016 so the issue isn't that we didn't identify the need for a KPP and pick accordingly, it's that we chose the wrong one.

 

[jackcass]

He has missed 10 weeks, not bad for a hammy

I didn't say it wasn't a bad hammy, just that off the bone is generally season ending with surgery required.

 

[greening22]

We took Sam McLarty with our 1st live pick at pick 30 or 31 in 2016 so the issue isn't that we didn't identify the need for a KPP and pick accordingly, it's that we chose the wrong one.

But that is the recurring problem. We tend to choose the wrong players! I think that 2013 was a case in point when we chose Scharenberg - who had a history of feet problems as a junior - and then Nathan Freeman; enough said about the latter. However interestingly enough in late 2016, I went to a sportsmen's lunch at one of biggest clubs in the Northern Football League & on my table was Gerald McCartney - legendary ex-development coach at Geelong during their halcyon years from the early 2000's to about 2011 or 2012 & then the Western Bulldogs senior coach in 2013 & 2014 & now back at Melbourne as their senior development coach. I asked him about both of our 2013 AFL National Draft selections. He told me that Scharenberg would be a top player if he could get over his feet problems initially (which according to him were well-known to club recruiters) & by then his 1st knee reconstruction. However he told me that he would not have chosen Freeman at 10 or even later on in the draft as he had a clearly deficient & erratic running style that at AFL level would lend itself to soft tissue injuries. He also said that he would have chosen Patrick Cripps who went at either 12 or 13 in that draft when we - Collingwood- had selections 8 & 10 (or was it 6 & 8? if my memory is at all accurate. So we appear to not have a great record when selecting players relative to their injury propensities in recent years.

 

[jackcass]

But that is the recurring problem. We tend to choose the wrong players! I think that 2013 was a case in point when we chose Scharenberg - who had a history of feet problems as a junior - and then Nathan Freeman; enough said about the latter. However interestingly enough in late 2016, I went to a sportsmen's lunch at one of biggest clubs in the Northern Football League & on my table was Gerald McCartney - legendary ex-development coach at Geelong during their halcyon years from the early 2000's to about 2011 or 2012 & then the Western Bulldogs senior coach in 2013 & 2014 & now back at Melbourne as their senior development coach. I asked him about both of our 2013 AFL National Draft selections. He told me that Scharenberg would be a top player if he could get over his feet problems initially (which according to him were well-known to club recruiters) & by then his 1st knee reconstruction. However he told me that he would not have chosen Freeman at 10 or even later on in the draft as he had a clearly deficient & erratic running style that at AFL level would lend itself to soft tissue injuries. He also said that he would have chosen Patrick Cripps who went at either 12 or 13 in that draft when we - Collingwood- had selections 8 & 10 (or was it 6 & 8? if my memory is at all accurate. So we appear to not have a great record when selecting players relative to their injury propensities in recent years.

Not sure Brendan would be overly thrilled to be re-tagged Gerald but that aside, you could ask 20 or 30 knowledgeable people (like McCartney) what they think of a particular draft and get 20-30 different opinions. Schaz was always touted among the top 2-3 draft prospects that year and only slid due to the feet issues. McCartney himself oversaw the recruitment of Matt Fuller, Mitch Honeychurch, Brett Goodes, Nathan Hrovat, and Josh Prudden. It's not a perfect science.

 

[ThePheonix]

But that is the recurring problem. We tend to choose the wrong players! I think that 2013 was a case in point when we chose Scharenberg - who had a history of feet problems as a junior - and then Nathan Freeman; enough said about the latter. However interestingly enough in late 2016, I went to a sportsmen's lunch at one of biggest clubs in the Northern Football League & on my table was Gerald McCartney - legendary ex-development coach at Geelong during their halcyon years from the early 2000's to about 2011 or 2012 & then the Western Bulldogs senior coach in 2013 & 2014 & now back at Melbourne as their senior development coach. I asked him about both of our 2013 AFL National Draft selections. He told me that Scharenberg would be a top player if he could get over his feet problems initially (which according to him were well-known to club recruiters) & by then his 1st knee reconstruction. However he told me that he would not have chosen Freeman at 10 or even later on in the draft as he had a clearly deficient & erratic running style that at AFL level would lend itself to soft tissue injuries. He also said that he would have chosen Patrick Cripps who went at either 12 or 13 in that draft when we - Collingwood- had selections 8 & 10 (or was it 6 & 8? if my memory is at all accurate. So we appear to not have a great record when selecting players relative to their injury propensities in recent years.

I was questioning our recruiters, but would get push back saying every club have hits and misses, but that is my point. If we are like every other club then we aren't better than the other clubs. And it's the clubs that are better at finding talent who win multiple GFs like Hawthorn and Geelong.

 

[Thatsmyname]

 

[whiskeytown]

Kelly will play 100+ games as a Reid type swingman I'd say. But probably 12 months away.

194cm Mark Keane... for a 19 year old who is new game... is doing very well IMO. He is a long kick, has a good leap and gets his fist to the ball... and already looks a competent fullback at VFL level... impressive after only half a preason and 10 VFL games. Just needs 12 months to put on some muscle and better learn his craft.

I'm happy to have this thrown back at me later... but Keane will play seniors at some point and do okay.

Tohill will be delisted after his contract. Wilson has good traits but is too early to call that he will make it as a forward.

 

[jackcass]

Kelly will play 100+ games as a Reid type swingman I'd say. But probably 12 months away.

194cm Mark Keane... for a 19 year old who is new game... is doing very well IMO. He is a long kick, has a good leap and gets his fist to the ball... and already looks a competent fullback at VFL level... impressive after only half a preason and 10 VFL games. Just needs 12 months to put on some muscle and better learn his craft.

I'm happy to have this thrown back at me later... but Keane will play seniors at some point and do okay.

Tohill will be delisted after his contract. Wilson has good traits but is too early to call that he will make it as a forward.

I think you've gone too early on Tohill. I've seen him play a couple of times and while I agree he gets lost a lot, every now and then he does something that gives cause for optimism, especially when you factor in his pace and agility. Not sure what is contract tenure is but I reckon they'll give him at least 2020.

 

[ThePheonix]

Not sure Brendan would be overly thrilled to be re-tagged Gerard but that aside, you could ask 20 or 30 knowledgeable people (like McCartney) what they think of a particular draft and get 20-30 different opinions. Schaz was always touted among the top 2-3 draft prospects that year and only slid due to the feet issues. McCartney himself oversaw the recruitment of Matt Fuller, Mitch Honeychurch, Brett Goodes, Nathan Hrovat, and Josh Prudden. It's not a perfect science.

Ok, so do you know of any recruiters that have a great record in finding talent? Because it seems to me some clubs do better than others and Collingwood have struggled to uncover any KPP of any talent for quiet a while.

 

[DerekZoolander]

We have Will Kelly and that's it.

We have negelected drafting KPP in the first 2 rounds for years. And the ones we have drafted are speculative late or rookie picks.

Will Kelly, Cloke and Moore were free hits imo, when was the laat drafted KPP we got right? Reid and Brown I suppose?