List Mgmt. Opinion: Where will our future players come from?

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76woodenspooners

76woodenspooners

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Jun 4, 2011
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Sydney
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Collingwood
We pick up a bunch of cheapies / castoffs from other clubs this off season (McStay, Frampton, Hill, Mitchell and Markov) and so far in 2023 (up to round 9) they’ve played a total of 36 senior games between them. And it’d be more if it weren’t for injuries.

By contrast …

Our 2022 Draft Class are yet to play an AFL game for us.

Our 2021 Draft Class have played 9 games this year (All by Nick Daicos)

Our 2020 Draft Class have played 18 games this year (McCreery, Ginnivan and Reef)

You’d think our ability to get the best out of players who have failed to flourish elsewhere, together with our onfield success and club morale would make us a destination club?

Question: Which pathway do you think our future players will come from?
 
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With the 19th team coming in, we’re more likely than ever to get diminishing returns from the draft, and it will be more important than ever to draft for whatever talent is available, and trade to fill holes.

Tangential avenues to acquire talent, such as Alex Condon, will need to be thoroughly explored.
 

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The 2022 draftees look good from my point of view, much better than 2021. Ryan and Allen will be long term players and Richards will be back in the country soon with a good story to tell his kids of how he played VFL for Collingwood.

2021 class are meh, nothing outstanding probably another wasted draft for us.

Looking at our past you’d say recycled or mid season is where we get them, unfortunately our national draft pick success has been very poor. JDG was a good pick and I hope Finn will make it, he’s doing really well this season. We need a 💩 load of Father sons, we’ve done ok from them. Ok the Browns and Kelly have been meh but Moore and the Daci are the leading players for us in the next decade. In a few years Mighty Mick McGuanes son will be bouncing along an MCG wing.
Let’s hope before Tassie that Dekka gets his picks right, they are vital the next few years.
 
You’re writing off some of those draft picks prematurely I think.

Depends who is available, recruit from other clubs if the player fits ( Geelongs approach) or the draft if they aren’t…I’d like another top end pick this year if we can upgrade it anyway. We have a good young group coming through.
 
It's tricky, the way we've topped up over the last few years have included a lot of atypical pathways. We've got the best mid-season draft pick ever on the half-back line, a key forward who was rejected by the AFL for over half a decade at CHF, a 7 foot Texan galloping around, and some incredibly ageing older veterans like Pendlebury and Sidebottom. Then since Wright has joined we've added some real gems like Mitchell, Lipinski, Frampton, Hill, etc.

It has made it hard for our youngsters to crack in. Macrae and Carmichael would be getting selected most weeks if they performed in the VFL at other clubs as they have with us. McInnes would likely too. Ruscoe would likely be a solid half-back at most clubs.

It's a very hard team to crack into if you're not tall! I think we have a good group of young talent, as seen by their performances in the VFL. I think of our youngsters that don't get gams, Allan, Macrae, Carmichael, Ryan, Draper and Harrison all have the potential to be solid. Steene and Dean would be very helpful if they come on too.
 
76woodenspooners said:
We pick up a bunch of cheapies / castoffs from other clubs this off season (McStay, Frampton, Hill, Mitchell and Markov) and so far in 2023 (up to round 9) they’ve played a total of 36 senior games between them. And it’d be more if it weren’t for injuries.

By contrast …

Our 2022 Draft Class are yet to play an AFL game for us.

Our 2021 Draft Class have played 9 games this year (All by Nick Daicos)

Our 2020 Draft Class have played 18 games this year (McCreery, Ginnivan and Reef)

You’d think our ability to get the best out of players who have failed to flourish elsewhere, together with our onfield success and club morale would make us a destination club?

Question: Which pathway do you think our future players will come from?
Click to expand...

We're going to need to invest in the draft sooner than later. I think keep the same strategy with MSD and apply it to the rookie.
 
magpies42 said:
You’re writing off some of those draft picks prematurely I think.

Depends who is available, recruit from other clubs if the player fits ( Geelongs approach) or the draft if they aren’t…I’d like another top end pick this year if we can upgrade it anyway. We have a good young group coming through.
Click to expand...
Yes I must admit I am really excited by some of our recent picks, even the 21 draft are really showing some + signs Draper,Murley and Harrison plus Ginnivan and McCreey I would contend we pick the eyes out of that draft, of course we got lucky with Nick and we were done like a dinner with our 1st rd pick with GWS. I think if you looked fairly at our recent recruiting it is 1st rate.

With a bit of luck our 2nd rd pick this year might be much better than we thought fingers crossed.
 

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Its been an impressive reboot by Fly with lots of wise choices. Sorry Billy from me. Still we have doubled down on the mature experienced best 22 so there is work to do filling the 18 to 25 yo group on the list. Lippa and Hill have helped. AJ can be included. Allen and Ryan look good. Bar Daics, Beau and Ginny the class of 19, 20 and 21 looks pretty bare. Hopefully a few more of those kick through to replace the oldies
 
Gone Critical said:
Its been an impressive reboot by Fly with lots of wise choices. Sorry Billy from me. Still we have doubled down on the mature experienced best 22 so there is work to do filling the 18 to 25 yo group on the list. Lippa and Hill have helped. AJ can be included. Allen and Ryan look good. Bar Daics, Beau and Ginny the class of 19, 20 and 21 looks pretty bare. Hopefully a few more of those kick through to replace the oldies
Click to expand...
I think it get,s back to list management after the 18gf with Beams and some of our decisions from that era we have achieved nearly a miracle to be turning it around so fast to the point where we are definitely a destination club again, we could have easily been a basket case.

Really outstanding work by the Coaches,Players and the Administration.
 
ipswichpies said:
I think it get,s back to list management after the 18gf with Beams and some of our decisions from that era we have achieved nearly a miracle to be turning it around so fast to the point where we are definitely a destination club again, we could have easily been a basket case.

Really outstanding work by the Coaches,Players and the Administration.
Click to expand...
I don't think you should play down our (BF posters) part in turning around the club. As a group, we've been instrumental.
 
We’re unlikely to be getting top draft picks anytime soon, and given that we’d have to be one of the hottest destination clubs at the moment, you’d think that trading in would offer us good value. And hopefully the value would get better and we wouldn’t need to offer players like McStay a 5 year deal, or Krueger a three year deal.

But saying that, the top end talent usually comes through the draft. And trading that in is usually very expensive. Players like Pendlebury, Sidebottom, DeGoey, Moore, Nick Daicos all came through the draft. And club captains in particular and leadership typically come through the draft (players like Luke Ball and Jeremy Howe being the exception rather than the rule)

We’ve been so fortunate with the MSD netting players like Noble and Johnson. But 17 clubs have now cottoned onto that, so can’t imagine that it will be as fruitful as it once was.

I think ultimately it’ll be driven by the quality of our best 30ish. I think any gaps in that will be filled by traded in / delisted players / free agents / mature age draftees. And then positions above 30ish will be filled by draftees. It’s then up to the draftees to push out those ahead of them in the pecking order.
 
76woodenspooners said:
We’re unlikely to be getting top draft picks anytime soon, and given that we’d have to be one of the hottest destination clubs at the moment, you’d think that trading in would offer us good value. And hopefully the value would get better and we wouldn’t need to offer players like McStay a 5 year deal, or Krueger a three year deal.

But saying that, the top end talent usually comes through the draft. And trading that in is usually very expensive. Players like Pendlebury, Sidebottom, DeGoey, Moore, Nick Daicos all came through the draft. And club captains in particular and leadership typically come through the draft (players like Luke Ball and Jeremy Howe being the exception rather than the rule)

We’ve been so fortunate with the MSD netting players like Noble and Johnson. But 17 clubs have now cottoned onto that, so can’t imagine that it will be as fruitful as it once was.

I think ultimately it’ll be driven by the quality of our best 30ish. I think any gaps in that will be filled by traded in / delisted players / free agents / mature age draftees. And then positions above 30ish will be filled by draftees. It’s then up to the draftees to push out those ahead of them in the pecking order.
Click to expand...
I think we have had 2 fantastic pieces of luck with Daicos and Ed Allan falling into our lap but our picking from 30,s onwards plus MSD,Rookies SSD has been superb and is what has allowed us to turn it around so fast.

I think we are a tight ship and a really well run club top to bottom ATM.
 
Aussie pie said:
The 2022 draftees look good from my point of view, much better than 2021. Ryan and Allen will be long term players and Richards will be back in the country soon with a good story to tell his kids of how he played VFL for Collingwood.

2021 class are meh, nothing outstanding probably another wasted draft for us.

Looking at our past you’d say recycled or mid season is where we get them, unfortunately our national draft pick success has been very poor. JDG was a good pick and I hope Finn will make it, he’s doing really well this season. We need a 💩 load of Father sons, we’ve done ok from them. Ok the Browns and Kelly have been meh but Moore and the Daci are the leading players for us in the next decade. In a few years Mighty Mick McGuanes son will be bouncing along an MCG wing.
Let’s hope before Tassie that Dekka gets his picks right, they are vital the next few years.
Click to expand...

Not a fan of Nick Daicos?

I’m still really optimistic on Draper, Murley and HH as well.

Dean has been really unlucky.

Too early to tell really imho.
 
We're in a pretty unique position:

  • We're heading into a period of success which makes it somewhat easier to poach top players from other clubs both young and old
  • While we won't have any decent picks for many a year, we're heading into a period of decent father sons during said draft drought
  • We have genuine guns 25 and under right now so we should be good for some time
  • 2022 Draft class should come along ok
  • Gotta trust Dekka with Wright and Fly on either side of him to find diamonds in the rough at the lower end of the draft
 
I think Buckley, Hine and Wright and now of course McCrae have done a great job resetting us from 2020.
We have had some busts but the players brought in
Johnson, Ginnivan, McCreery, Frampton, McStay, Hill, Mitchell, Lipinski, Daicos N are now all best 23.
Carmichael, McInness, Draper, Harrison, Allan, Ryan, Steene, Macrae, Dean all have good potential
Markov, Kreuger could be best 22 or depth at best
Begg, Richards and Murley need to improve but have shown a little bit.
On top of this we potentially have Condon coming for free who could have been a top 20 pick last draft and hopefully two top 30 picks.

Rebuild since 2020
Markov Frampton Draper
Ryan Dean Daicos N
Allan Carmichael Harrison
McCreery Kreuger Hill
Johnson McStay Ginnivan
Steene Lipinski
Mitchell
Macrae, McInness, Murley, Begg
**Condon
This is pretty good considering we could have been a basket case with no players wanting to come from Stephenson, Treloar, Grundy debacles instead we are well set up and a fairly good destination.

We do have 10 players 30 and above we need to replace in next 2-3 years which hopefully we can manage with some players already here, draft and quite a bit of cap space for free agency....and maybe McGuane as a father son
 
jc37 said:
I think Buckley, Hine and Wright and now of course McCrae have done a great job resetting us from 2020.
We have had some busts but the players brought in
Johnson, Ginnivan, McCreery, Frampton, McStay, Hill, Mitchell, Lipinski, Daicos N are now all best 23.
Carmichael, McInness, Draper, Harrison, Allan, Ryan, Steene, Macrae, Dean all have good potential
Markov, Kreuger could be best 22 or depth at best
Begg, Richards and Murley need to improve but have shown a little bit.
On top of this we potentially have Condon coming for free who could have been a top 20 pick last draft and hopefully two top 30 picks.

Rebuild since 2020
Markov Frampton Draper
Ryan Dean Daicos N
Allan Carmichael Harrison
McCreery Kreuger Hill
Johnson McStay Ginnivan
Steene Lipinski
Mitchell
Macrae, McInness, Murley, Begg
**Condon
This is pretty good considering we could have been a basket case with no players wanting to come from Stephenson, Treloar, Grundy debacles instead we are well set up and a fairly good destination.

We do have 10 players 30 and above we need to replace in next 2-3 years which hopefully we can manage with some players already here, draft and quite a bit of cap space for free agency....and maybe McGuane as a father son
Click to expand...
Reckon Murley is now showing a bit, I'm getting optimstic about him.
 
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