Where to from here?

[JMc#5]

I am not as bearish as some other people on here, however i do think we need to take a frank look at the current side....

• Watson - for mine would be better down the order and bowling a lot more. Great swinger of the ball. Doesn't make big tons and therefore not suited to open IMO
• Hughes - looked good in the 2nd innings in Melbourne and i feel we should persist with him.
• Ponting - handled himself very well in post match address and think he should stay on as we desperately need him to captain the side. Wouldn't mind seeing him at no.5
• Clarke - for mine, the worst performance of the series. Is a great bat who's in career worst form, but needed to knuckle down a bit more IMO at times. Should be at no.5 or no.6 i think. Surely can't be the next captain...
• Hussey - great series, but is nearing the end. Calls for him to open or go up the order are a little silly i think, but i could see him slip in at no.4 for a series or two. Wouldn't mind if he hung up the boots after the series though.
• Smith - hmmm, i thouight he would be a good no.6 and may well be down the track, but looks a little immature still ATM. Bowled fairly well and with thin bowling stocks could be a chance at 8.
• Haddin - looking good with the bat, happy for him to say for a while but Paine has to be close...
• Johnson - i guess we need him, but has to be more consistent - with both bat and ball.
• Harris - in the best XI but injury prone
• Siddle - proved me and many others wrong, great game from him, but needs to get that consistency ala Johnson
• Hilfenhaus - i really rate him but he can't get a wicket. Looks like his confidence is shot, but i would be happy to persist with him.

What i'd like to see happen to the team...

1) Hughes
2) Katich (for a while until we discover another option)
3) Khawaja
4) Watson
5) Ponting
6) Clarke
7) Haddin
8) Smith/O'Keefe
9) Johnson
10) Copeland
11) Siddle/Hilfenhaus/Harris

I think you've got to look at either Khawaja or Paine as the future captain. Here's hoping Ponting can stay around long enought o facilitate the changeover...

No need for 7 or 8 bowlers... 4 bowlers plus Watson is more than enough!!!

Need to put the young fellars in at the top in my opinion and give them the responsibility....

The middle order looks sured up now...

 

[The Passenger]

1. panic
2. ?????
3. profit!!!!

nah, seriously, the big problems are the middle order. specifically the form of clarke and ponting. the inconsistency of our bowlers, and our fielding has really fallen down.

we do have to accept that this is going to be a tough period.

i think we kinda got our hopes up because we all though the 2007-08 period was going to be tough. during that time we lost gilly, hayden, warne, mcgrath, langer... but we actually did pretty well out of that. obviously we weren't the gun team as before but we were still one of the best teams and in any given test match capable of beating any other team, even away from home.

but since the 2009 ashes the form that the team was showing over 2008-2009 season and during that ashes series (we were very very close to knocking england over in that series) has just gone downhill and it's become a somewhat downward spiral.

we do need to pick a group of lads and back them in. but we've gotta pick the right lads, and bring guys into the team who have runs on the board because that will give them the greatest chance of early success and creating some sort of springboard.

bringing guys in who are averaging in the teens in shield for the season is an absolute recipe for disaster.

just on hughes - i don't think he'll make it in test cricket. play a bit of devils advocate but he's technique is so far removed from the norm it's just impossible to see it work. plenty of batsmen have got by with a non traditional technique, but i can't remember any batsmen make it who hits across the line so much. hayden and sehwag didn't have great technique or footwork, but they always hit through the ball and with power and timing.

i know he started well, which shows he does have talent, but i think he would've been found out soon enough. he was harshly dropped, but i think had he stayed in the team, it would been sometime around now to the next twelve months that the scribes and fans would've been started to ask whether he has a future as a test batsmen.

as it stands now his confidence appears totally shot, and whilst that's happening he has no chance because he has no technique to fall back on. for what it's worth i think he'll make a few runs in sydney, probably a half century, as he generally bats well there. but i dunno, i'll be happy to be proven wrong, but i'll be very suprised if he is able to average in the 40's for a sustained period.

 

[Kid Presentable]

It's also pretty clear that Tim Neilson isn't really a fab coach - perhaps we need to get Buchanan back into the fray.

 

[Belnakor]

I
1) Hughes
2) Katich (for a while until we discover another option)
3) Khawaja
4) Watson
5) Ponting
6) Clarke
7) Haddin
8) Smith/O'Keefe
9) Johnson
10) Copeland
11) Siddle/Hilfenhaus/Harris

bang on for mine.

Ponting down the order, Watson where he should be batting. I like it alot.

 

[mattymac]

definately need a new coach. nielsen is a muppet and all the basics (fielding, running, application) have slipped to unacceptable levels under his watch

selectors need to be burnt at the stake

watson needs to drop back down finally

ponting i reckon has to go. he can't remain captain after losing 3 ashes and we don't keep past captains. we need a total rebuild without his influence. needs to fall on his sword

clarke is really worrying because he will be the next captain. chappell said it before perth. but his form is shite. should bury him down the order if we're gonna hold onto him. will come good again eventually. maybe the responsibility will do him good.

our attack is still very poor and the worrying thing is we're persisting with it for years now and still sliding downhill. to keep repeating something that doesn't work is the definition of insanity

johnson needs to be taken aside and run into the ground to get his action right. no ifs or buts. if he can't get consistency he has to go. i just don't think he's got what it takes mentally, despite his potential

copeland needs to come in.

the third pacer slot should be horses for courses rotation. pick the in form swing bowler for england etc. then we also need a captain and selectors who know how to read a flipping pitch.

we definately need a specialist spinner. o'keefe is the man for the foreseeable future

not much wrong with the line up in the op except ponting has to go imo

 

[aneale]

Hughes
Katich (for now)
Khawaja
Hussey
Ponting
Watson
Haddin
Smith
Siddle
Copeland
George

Johnson (12th)

That's how I would pick the SCG test. Clarke is so woefully out of form it's ridiculous, and I'm not convinced his back isn't as good as we are led to believe. Ponting stays and drops down the order. He stays because once he is out, that's it for him I reckon so if this is the last test in Australia he plays in, so be it. Katich comes in and can bowl those left arm mongs that he bowls providing he is fit enough. It also is pretty close to the time of telling Shaun Marsh he is going to open like his old man and deal with it.

Watson isn't an opener in my books and would make a good 6. Why Haddin bats below Smith is a mystery. he has to bat at 7, but above Smith. Smith is the best spinning option if the selectors continue to be wrong about Hauritz, he's at 8.

Siddle I don't rate, he's a one trick pony who bowls well at the MCG and precious little anywhere else. But his endeavour is great and he does tend to bat well and he can tie up an end. He could also find assistance with the new ball and early at the SCG if the conditions suit.

Left field, height, height, height. No skiddy types on the SCG, Johnson out, he couldn't get me out there anyway and there are no more games at the WACA or GABBA to suit him. Copeland and George come in, like McGrath and Clark in the past their style suits the SCG more than others and the Poms need to contend with some more awkward bounce that has always been their achilles heel in this country.

 

[Goldencats]

If Ponting wants to prolong his test career, he has to move down to 5, there's no two ways about it, he must come to the realisation that he's no longer a good enough test no.3 batsman and is put under too much duress with the captaincy to worry about, let alone coming in first drop

Watson I believe has to move down the order to 4 or 6, he has done a very good job as an opener but constantly making half centuries without going on to make a big score just isn't good enough for an opening batsman

As for the captaincy, well I really can't see how Ponting can possibly play in the test side without being captain tbh, I'd love for him to hand over the reins to someone, but he's just too powerful/domineering of a character

If Punter were to give up the captaincy the one guy I'd love to see take over in the role would be Tim Paine, he's young, energetic, he's always in the play behind the stumps and he's a very handy batsman, I think he would make a really good leader and would be a risk worth taking, in order for this to happen I wouldn't be against him coming into the side and playing Haddin as a batsman, as I feel Paine is a much better keeper and Haddin is prob in the top 5 batsmen we have in the country

Clarke has to be dropped, and he has to earn his spot back, he's only 29 and has been disappointing for the last year, so he has plenty of time on his side

As good as Mike Hussey has been this series, I think it's time to move him on, same with Katich, they aren't going to be around for our next Ashes series and keeping them in the team will hinder the development of the younger generation coming through

I think we have to persist with Smith as the spinner, he is a long term prospect and has many years on his side

Hughes has been very disappointing since his brilliant start to his test career, but he's only 22 and has time on his side as well, in saying that, he still should be made to work to earn his spot

 

[Plugger35]

It's also pretty clear that Tim Neilson isn't really a fab coach - perhaps we need to get Buchanan back into the fray.

Not sure Buchanan was a great coach either, if you listen to the reports of some of the players that played under him like Warne. He was just fortunate to be coaching a great team which made his record look good.

You'd think they could find someone better than Nielsen though, at least someone with some test experience. Andy Flower has done a terrific job since taking over as coach of England and no doubt having some test experience helps, at least in terms of gaining respect from the players.

 

[Caesar]

1) Hughes
2) Katich (for a while until we discover another option)
3) Khawaja
4) Watson
5) Ponting
6) Clarke
7) Haddin
8) Smith/O'Keefe
9) Johnson
10) Copeland
11) Siddle/Hilfenhaus/Harris

I like it but I don't think Smith merits selection in a specialist bowling spot. IMO you either pick him at 6 or not at all.

 

[Caesar]

You'd think they could find someone better than Nielsen though, at least someone with some test experience. Andy Flower has done a terrific job since taking over as coach of England and no doubt having some test experience helps, at least in terms of gaining respect from the players.

Flower's not just some bloke with Test experience though, he's an alltime great of the game. Bit unfair to put Neilsen up against someone like that.

Would have thought someone like Border or Waugh the Elder would do a good job though. A side like this needs a coach like Bobby Simpson - someone who is well-respected, no nonsense, good with fundamentals and remembers how to win.

 

[krusden]

...


1) Hughes
2) Katich (for a while until we discover another option)
3) Khawaja
4) Watson
5) Ponting
6) Clarke
7) Haddin
8) Smith/O'Keefe
9) Johnson
10) Copeland
11) Siddle/Hilfenhaus/Harris

i like this a lot.

the plus is we get a new #3 and when ponting does retire we replace him with a middle order player like ferguson or marsh.
If johnson keeps bowling pies he's replaced by either hilfy or peter george - however i dont think george is quite ready as ive seen him play and he tires quickly. needs to work on his fitness and will be ready to go.

 

[W.C. Fry]

Where to from here? Well our #1 aim must be regaining the ashes in England. We have 2 and a half years to build a team that can do that. So anyone too old to be playing then really has to go.

I love Hussey, he was our best batsmen this series but unfortunatley he will be passed it in a couple of years time so he has to go now.

Ponting is older than Hussey, and in the worst form of his life. He should go now too.

Katich will be pushing it to make the next ashes aswell. Time to find 2 new openers, Watson should bat lower in the order. Gives them 2 years to form a proper opening partnership.

If we so desperately want a leg spinner then play Smith as one - not as a batsmen that bowls a little. Bat him around 8 and leave him in the team a while to get smashed around and learn until he hopefully becomes the spinner we are all crying out for. Im kind of sick of us trying 100 different finger spinners and discarding them every second game. Surely we cant do any worse than just selecting the most promising leggie and sticking with him for a while.

Bollinger and Harris are too old. Johnson is almost 30 now so he better find some consistency in the next year... but he is a match winner and is worth persisting with. Siddle has shown a bit and stays in the side.

Watson should probably bowl a little more. 4 quicks plus Watson in the last 2 games was just silly. 3 quicks, a spinner and Watson is a much better way to go.

Pup is a pup no more and is really skating on thin ice. If he doesn't do anything in Sydney then he really needs looking at. He will be 32 for the next tour of England.

 

[SebastianVettel]

Not sure Buchanan was a great coach either, if you listen to the reports of some of the players that played under him like Warne. He was just fortunate to be coaching a great team which made his record look good.

Buck was the perfect man for the job with the brilliant players he had. He wasn't a technical guru, but he challenged the great players in a mental sense, and IMO played a big role in turning that team of super talents into the juggernaught it was.

However, as of now, we're rebuilding from the bottom up with young players that need to be guided by someone of a similar ilk to Andy Flower. He's done a terrific job with England, he really has.

 

[GreekLunatic]

Stick Mickey Arthur as coach. Wasnt he the coach of when south africa won the series here.Nielsen is a dud dud coach.

 

[ExTasDeeMan]

Buck was the perfect man for the job with the brilliant players he had. He wasn't a technical guru, but he challenged the great players in a mental sense, and IMO played a big role in turning that team of super talents into the juggernaught it was.

However, as of now, we're rebuilding from the bottom up with young players that need to be guided by someone of a similar ilk to Andy Flower. He's done a terrific job with England, he really has.

Grant Flower perhaps - or if that fails get Guus Hiddink.

 

[Caesar]

If we so desperately want a leg spinner then play Smith as one - not as a batsmen that bowls a little.

That's how we ruined White. I'd rather not make the same mistake with one of the most promising middle order batsmen in the country, thanks.

 

[rocker_oz33]

the aussie's lost 2 test series in a row big deal just cause everyone was use to the aussies wining every test under 4 days.time to stuck it up and do the hard yards.time to re-build the team and watch the new team become back to the wining ways.

 

[dan warna]

That's how we ruined White. I'd rather not make the same mistake with one of the most promising middle order batsmen in the country, thanks.

averaging about 20 in his tests so far, promising in what way? yet to see any evidence he wasn't just a 1 season wonder.

 

[Jef Costello]

What about SWaugh as Coach? Not just a former great, has strong insight into the game and a demonstrated record of nurturing players. Would make them run and field their arses off too which would be a good place to start.

 

[mediumsizered]

Siddle I don't rate, he's a one trick pony who bowls well at the MCG and precious little anywhere else. But his endeavour is great and he does tend to bat well and he can tie up an end. He could also find assistance with the new ball and early at the SCG if the conditions suit.

Siddle's best Test Match figures in his relatively short career so far (21 Tests) is 8 wickets in a match at the SCG in 2009. He has taken 6 wickets in a match at Johannesburg, Leeds, the Gabba & the MCG. He also has taken 5 wickets in a match at Durban & Hobart. That is a pretty good spread in the early stages of a career.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Siddle's best Test Match figures in his relatively short career so far (21 Tests) is 8 wickets in a match at the SCG in 2009. He has taken 6 wickets in a match at Johannesburg, Leeds, the Gabba & the MCG. He also has taken 5 wickets in a match at Durban & Hobart. That is a pretty good spread in the early stages of a career.

he has taken big bags before as you posted but still has a high'ish average

 

[aneale]

Siddle's best Test Match figures in his relatively short career so far (21 Tests) is 8 wickets in a match at the SCG in 2009. He has taken 6 wickets in a match at Johannesburg, Leeds, the Gabba & the MCG. He also has taken 5 wickets in a match at Durban & Hobart. That is a pretty good spread in the early stages of a career.

Since that Leeds test (and I could have taken wickets on that first day) where he knocked over 8,9,10 & 11 after getting Strauss early h's scratched around. His figures are arse about and he's becoming less effective with experience not better which is concerning for a guy the wrong side of 25, we aren't talking about some 21yo kid who made his debut in 08.

1,4 (Oval), 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 2, 0, 1, 0, 2, 3, 6, 0, 0, 1, 0, 6. That is incredibly poor in 16 months of cricket. I don't need him to take bags of 5 and 6 constantly but he needs to contribute. Not take 0 or a cheap tailender for a 1 per innings. It's not good enough.

Up to an including that Leeds test he took 3 or more wickets in 9 innings. At about the 20 test test mark he should have developed some consistency. He hasn't. He's either been worked out and just not troubling batsmen or he bears his teeth on wickets that suit him and not much more.

 

[Byron_Clanger]

I would personally gut the list and pick a bunch of 20 year olds, couldn't perform any worse I think

 

[Caesar]

averaging about 20 in his tests so far, promising in what way? yet to see any evidence he wasn't just a 1 season wonder.

Promising given his age and his first class record thus far. I would have thought that is obvious. Look around, you won't find another player his age in the country with the same achievements under his belt.

How he has performed in his first two Tests is of no real significance at 21 - unless you expect him to be another Ricky Ponting. I think few will dispute he's been thrown to the wolves a little early.

You really are one of the most myopic posters on this board.

 

[mediumsizered]

Since that Leeds test (and I could have taken wickets on that first day) where he knocked over 8,9,10 & 11 after getting Strauss early h's scratched around. His figures are arse about and he's becoming less effective with experience not better which is concerning for a guy the wrong side of 25, we aren't talking about some 21yo kid who made his debut in 08.

1,4 (Oval), 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 2, 0, 1, 0, 2, 3, 6, 0, 0, 1, 0, 6. That is incredibly poor in 16 months of cricket. I don't need him to take bags of 5 and 6 constantly but he needs to contribute. Not take 0 or a cheap tailender for a 1 per innings. It's not good enough.

Up to an including that Leeds test he took 3 or more wickets in 9 innings. At about the 20 test test mark he should have developed some consistency. He hasn't. He's either been worked out and just not troubling batsmen or he bears his teeth on wickets that suit him and not much more.

Of course we want consistency, but why does this only have to apply to Siddle & not Hilfenhaus & Johnson? For some reason Hilfenhaus gets praise for not taking wickets, but apparently holding up an end, yet Siddle seems to be the first bowler that posters on here want dropped & some want to replace him with an ordinary bowler like George, or an uncapped bowler like Copeland, at a time when our bowling attack is already quite inexperienced.

What is it about Hilfenhaus that makes him immune from criticism, despite having a worst bowling average than Siddle, having never taken a 5 for & having a run of 3, 0, 4, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1 & 2 in the last 10 Test innings in which he has bowled, with the last 2 wickets being tailenders?