Which AFL teams do Fitzroy fans support?

[Len S]

Strangely a large percentage of Fitzroy Fans I knew could not support any other team so abandoned Aussie Rules completely and transferred their allegiances to the recently formed Melbourne Storm in the NRL

You stick to the blue and maroon,all the clubs are diluted in terms of their origins, some are totally artificial creations...west coast, Adelaide, GWS, its only a matter of degree.Fitzroy were cooked,and were 10 years to late to get the assistance Carlton ,Geelong, Melbourne etc, etc etc receive. As soon as we come back it will be business as usual.

 

[Gibbke]

After an administrator was appointed to Fitzroy in June 1996 to recover Nauru's $1.25 million debt and the AFL withdrew Fitzroy's licence thus removing them from the competition, the administrator of Fitzroy moved out in 1997 and control of the Club was returned to the elected Fitzroy directors and shareholders.

As soon as the Club came out of administration the Fitzroy directors resolved to continue the club (which is why the occasional statement that Fitzroy now just exists as a company, or an ACN is not correct). The Club started once again taking ordinary membership subscriptions again with the aim of re-establishing a football team on the field (which they had done by 2009).

So Fitzroy Football Club was effectively a continuing club in recess as many VFL-AFL clubs had been in recess in the late 1910s and 1940s.

From 1997 to 2008 the Fitzroy Football Club accumulated assets such as the establishing of a Shop for merchandise, trademarking available logos such as the FFC logo, which the AFL had never trademarked (and even if they had) had allowed it to fall into disuse, and other revenue streams.

In 1999, the Club now boosted by a small revenue stream from memberships and the newly established 'Fitzroy Shop', (which still trades and has been loaning out Fitzroy memorabilia for the Jack Irish series on the ABC) became the naming rights sponsor of the Coburg Lions in the VFL. For two years, in 1999-2000, the Coburg-Fitzroy Lions competed in the VFL wearing the Fitzroy jumper for away games. However Richmond ended that arrangement with their own alignment with Coburg, who temporarily re-named themselves the 'Coburg Tigers'.

In December 2008, at the instigation of the then Reds president Craig Little, the University Reds Football Club (known as the Fitzroy Reds from 1997) transferred all its assets to the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. The University (Fitzroy) Reds terminated its membership of the VAFA and was wound up as a incorporated company. By special dispensation from the VAFA, the Fitzroy Football Club then replaced the Fitzroy Reds in D-Grade VAFA. Dyson Hore-Lacy, chairman of Fitzroy in 1996, remained as chairman of the Club in the VAFA. Therefore the club that exists in the VAFA today is the same club that was formed in 1883 and competed for a hundred years in the VFL/AFL.

Now Fitzroy Football Club plays in B-Grade (Premier B) and hopes to get to A-Grade (Premier) in the next few years.

In 2010, Victorian Supreme Court Associate Justice Nemeer Mukhtar found that the Fitzroy Football Club still existed in its own right in the VAFA and was independent of the Brisbane Lions. Even the Brisbane Lions argued that fact, in trying to distance themselves in what they saw as Fitzroy's " interference" in resisting the Lions' logo change from the Fitzroy Lion to the 'paddlepop' lion. The document between Fitzroy signed against the will of the Fitzroy directors by the Fitzroy administrator in 1996, the Brisbane Bears/Lions and the AFL (known as the Deed of Arrangement - the full copy is on this board) was found to confirm the same.

If Fitzroy now owns the logo, are they being reimbursed when Brisbane runs out in a heritage game with it plastered on the front...?

 

[Rabman]

Fitzroy paid the price for not adapting to the modern game. They had no home ground, didn't have their own training facilities, had average attendances less than 10,000 even GCS and GWS get more and were not competitive winning 3 games in the last 2 seasons, only a percentage booster for opposition teams. Its naive to blame the AFL when the Fitzroy themselves were accountable for their untenable position. There is a reason why Richmond and the bulldogs are still in the competition today, their fans got behind their club and saved them, Fitzroy fans didn't do the same. Their demise was sad but they brought it upon themselves. Blaming the AFL is just a cop out.

 

[Roylion]

If Fitzroy now owns the logo, are they being reimbursed when Brisbane runs out in a heritage game with it plastered on the front...?

No. Everytime Brisbane run out with a jumper with the FFC logo, it is effectively advertising on a national stage for Fitzroy. Fitzroy do not object to Brisbane using it.

 

[Roylion]

They had no home ground,

Not through their own choice. Fitzroy were forced to move from their preferred home ground - twice (1966 and 1984)

Fitzroy Football Club left Brunswick Street Oval (B.S.O) in 1966 because the ground facilities became unfit for VFL football and it had no power to fix said facilities.

Unfortunately it was the Fitzroy Cricket Club that controlled the ground...not the Football Club. While the local council refused to spend any money on the ground, the far wealthier Fitzroy Cricket Club also refused to spend any money.

Fitzroy Football Club paid the Fitzroy Cricket Club to use the ground and about a thousand cricket club members got into the ground for free every weekend in the football season to watch Fitzroy Football Club.

The football club proposed a number of initiatives to try and stay at the B.S.O which obviously was their heartland. They suggested that the Fitzroy Cricket Club and the Fitzroy Football Club form one club, which the cricket club rejected. (this happened at Carlton). An offer by Fitzroy Football Club to borrow $400,000 from the Fitzroy council to upgrade the ground was also rejected by the Cricket Club. The football club also wanted a forty year lease which was opposed by the Council, although the council had agreed to give them a 21 year lease with no funds for subsequent improvement, which the football club found unacceptable, given that the Cricket Club still controlled the ground.

Meanwhile of course prospective VFL players didn’t want to play for Fitzroy because of the poor facilities and often went to neighbouring clubs Carlton and Collingwood because of their better facilities and ground arrangements, and according to Billy Stephens, their better ability to find them jobs from industry and other places located in their larger geographical area. Note that when Fitzroy was on or close to the bottom of the ladder in 1963-66, this co-incided with the worst disrepair of Brunswick Street in its history.

After the Brunswick Street football rooms were finally condemned by the local council health officer, which made them unusable, Fitzroy Football Club made a number of approaches to share grounds with Northcote and Preston in the VFA. But these came to nothing.

Fitzroy would have moved to the Junction Oval for the 1967 season where the St Kilda Cricket Club wanted them as a tenant, but a large number of St Kilda Cricket Club members and supporters opposed the move and it was quashed. Fitzroy instead had no choice but to go to Princes Park instead for the 1967, 1968 and 1969 seasons, when it finally negotiated a successful move to the Junction Oval for the 1970 season.

Interestingly in 1969 when the Fitzroy City Council heard that Fitzroy were set to leave Princes Park, they made an approach to the Fitzroy to return to the Brunswick Street Oval. Fitzroy Football Club agreed to return if ground works, including extensive improvements to the outer were carried out and new player rooms and public toilets were built. Unfortunately no agreement could be reached between the Council, the Cricket Club and the Football Club over what ground improvements were needed.

At the Junction Oval there was a real sense of Fitzroy community, even though it was in St Kilda. It was our ground, one we shared with no-one else. It was a superb ground to play on, especially after the mud-heap of Brunswick Oval. I never actually saw a VFL match at the Brunswick Oval, but there are plenty of stories of how much of a mud-slog it was. Standing in front of the Kevin Murray Stand at the Junction Oval surrounded by thousands of Fitzroy people at a game was a fantastic experience. One that was certainly not replicated at Victoria Park and Princes Park. Fitzroy players such as Paul Roos concur.

Fitzroy were forced to move from the Junction Oval in 1984 as part of VFL's ground rationalisation policy, beginning the process of the Club depending on other clubs such as Carlton and Collingwood (their traditional rivals) to generate significant revenue from a home ground.

didn't have their own training facilities,

Fitzroy did have their own training facilities until 1984.

The Club had plans to return to Brunswick Street and make it their permanent training venue in the early 90s. They had done a deal with the local council in 1993 and were trying to secure funding of $300,000 to make such a move a reality by upgrading the facilities to a level needed for an AFL club. Fitzroy's social club was just up the road at the corner of Brunswick Street and St Georges Road too, so it could have developed into a real Fitzroy enclave, extending out to Fitzroy's old recruiting zone towards Doncaster.

Many attempts to increase revenue for goals such as that, were stymied by the AFL, or the clubs that owned Vic. Park and Pricnes Park (see below for an example

had average attendances less than 10,000

1983 average home game attendance: (second last year at Fitzroy's home ground - the Junction Oval)

Fitzroy - 19,102
Geelong - 19,066
Hawthorn - 20,202
North Melbourne - 18,850
Footscray - 18,961
St Kilda - 20,189

In 1981, Fitzroy had the fourth highest membership in the league.

Home game averages for the last 10 years (with no actual home ground of our own and only a share of the revenue)

87- 11,498
88- 12,248
89- 13,965
90- 12,403
91- 11,240
92- 13,709
93- 14,672
94- 12,561
95- 11,587
96- 9,482 - the lowest in the league, 2nd lowest was Footscray with 18,073

What hurt Fitzroy the most and cost us (and the current secretary at Fitzroy will tell you this) was our lack of a home ground. Fitzroy were forced from the Junction Oval, by the VFL. This is when Fitzroy's real problems started.

get more and were not competitive winning 3 games in the last 2 seasons, only a percentage booster for opposition teams.

Errr..yes. That's what happens when your best players go elsewhere. In 1993 Fitzroy won 10 games from a possible 20 with a percentage of 99.50. The formation of the nucleus of a good young team brought hopes that Fitzroy would revive on the field, which in turn would result in an financial turn-around. Two years later, the best players from that side were at other clubs. Paul Roos (Sydney), Paul Broderick (Richmond), Matthew Armstrong (North Melbourne) Alistair Lynch (Brisbane), Matthew Dundas (Richmond), Ross Lyon (Brisbane), Michael Gale (Richmond), Jamie Elliott (Richmond) just to name a few.

Its naive to blame the AFL when the Fitzroy themselves were accountable for their untenable position.

1. Fitzroy was refused permission by the AFL to partially relocate to Canberra, and play seven home games there each season, despite having negotiated a deal which would have netted the Club an extra million dollars a year.

Initially, the club was told that Fitzroy's application to play 4 home games in Canberra (which would have netted the club $350,000 annually guaranteed) would "not be a credible exercise" in the Canberra market and would "not be enough games to be worthwhile."

Ross Oakley later said, in an amazingly offensive public statement, that Fitzroy was their 'worst product" and that the AFL wasn't going to send their 'worst product" up to Canberra. (Very clear that the aim of such a statement was to damage the public reputation of Fitzroy)

Fitzroy then offered to play 7 home games in Canberra, which would have netted Fitzroy at least $700,000 a year. In fact, when adding in corporate sponsorship, and ground rights at Bruce Stadium (which would have been upgraded), Fitzroy's projections showed they would have made $1 million extra per season.

Fitzroy's application had the support of the 'AFL for Canberra' organisation, the Canberra Raiders, the Ainslie Football Club and the ACT chief minister, who offered to upgrade Bruce Stadium. However, the AFL point-blank refused to entertain the idea. An AFL commissioner later admitted that the reason why the AFL knocked it back was because they wanted Port Adelaide in the competition, and wanted to keep the pressure on Fitzroy to "merge".

2. Fitzroy was forced to move from the Junction Oval at the end of 1984 through the AFL's ground rationalisation policy, then was knocked back to play out of Waverley, forcing the club to move to Princes Park and Victoria Park at relatively poor deals right throughout the late 1980's and 1990's. (In the final washup, we received no revenue in the end from our time at Princes Park. Not one red cent)

3. In 1986, a Melbourne-based company, Hecron, had agreed to become a partial owner of Fitzroy in return for financing the club to the tune of $2.6 million (which would have enabled the club to pay off all existing debts and afford to pay for new facilities and players). The League vetoed that deal.

4. Fitzroy was given no financial assistance to play home games in Tasmania (despite pioneering the move), paying all associated expenses out of its own pocket. We had to pay the whole cost off our own bat, including accommodation. We even ended up having to billet players in supporters' homes. Since that time, AFL support for Hawthorn and St Kilda in Tasmania has been enormous.

5. Fitzroy was refused permission by the AFL to redirect their annual AFL dividend to the banks to service loans.

6. The AFL refused, on at least three different occasions, to guarantee Fitzroy's annual dividend (paid to all clubs as a matter of course), which made it impossible to borrow money or service loans to aid cash flow. They guaranteed the dividend for all other clubs.

7. Over the head of Fitzroy, the AFL guaranteed Carlton 22 matches at Princes Park from 1993-2000 irrespective of whether Fitzroy played there or not. Fitzroy had no bargaining power to negotiate a better ground deal with Carlton. When Carlton came with a poorer deal from 1993, Fitzroy had to either accept a deal in which they would make no ground revenue or consider a move.

Victoria Park and Princes Park were quite unsuitable for Fitzroy. They were owned by Fitzroy's near rivals and in the ground sharing deals, Fitzroy was very much the minor partner. For example Fitzroy’s existing six year lease of Princes Park from 1987-1992 was completely unsatisfactory and contributed largely to Fitzroy's poor financial situation. Over the head of Fitzroy, the AFL had guaranteed Carlton 22 matches at Princes Park from 1993-2000 irrespective of whether Fitzroy played there or not. Therefore at the end of 1992, when their lease ran out, Fitzroy had no bargaining power to negotiate a better ground deal with Carlton. When Carlton presented Fitzroy with a poorer deal than the 1987-1992 lease in 1993, Fitzroy had to either accept a deal in which they would make absolutely no ground revenue or consider a move either back to Victoria Park (last match played there was in 1999) or the only other remaining option - the Western Oval.

The negotiations dragged on so long (largely becaue of the AFL guarantee to Carlton - which meant Calrton didn't have to negotiate) that in 1993, Fitzroy played at Princes Park without a lease and received a bill for $6,000 from Carlton as their 1993 revenue from the home ground. Yet Fitzroy still made a profit that year due to other new sources of revenue they had developed, such as the successful establishment of the "Fitzroy Club Hotel" in Northcote, just north of the Brunswick Street Oval. There were also plans to move back to the Brunswick Street Oval and use it as the club's training base.

Fitzroy continued to make a profit in 1994 and 1995 thanks to a new, far better deal at the Western Oval. See below for details.

Princes Park lease: Fitzroy gained a small amount of income from perimeter fence advertising, nothing at all from other ground advertising, none from catering and a small amount from reserve seating. No wonder Fitzroy made losses every year – they were gaining very little income from their home ground and hadn’t done so – since they were forced to leave the Junction Oval in 1984.

Western Oval lease: For their home games, Fitzroy received all revenue from nearly all advertising space at the ground as well as all reserve set revenue, all car-parking revenue, as well as having free access to all corporate facilities and all outer ground catering rights. Just by moving to the Western Oval, Fitzroy made an extra $400,000 per year.

Even then, coach Robert Shaw was utterly disgusted when our first home games at the Western Oval in 1994 were fixtured against lowly Brisbane and Sydney. Conversely home games against high drawing opponents in Essendon, Carlton and Geelong were scheduled elsewhere.

1994 Fitzroy home games
Fitzroy vs. Essendon (10th on ladder) - Princes Park (no ground revenue) - 24,872 (Win for Fitzroy)
Fitzroy vs. Brisbane Bears (12th) - Western Oval - 8,829 (W)
Fitzroy vs. Sydney Swans (15th) - Western Oval - 10,514 (W)
Fitzroy vs. North Melbourne (3rd) - Western Oval - 11,334 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Carlton (5th) - Waverley - 19,090 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Melbourne (4th) - Western Oval - 8,484 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Collingwood (8th) - Western Oval - 15,394 (L)
Fitzroy vs. West Coast (1st) - Western Oval - 5,334 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Geelong (2nd) - Princes Park (no ground revenue) - 11,388 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Richmond (9th) - Western Oval - 12,122 (L)
Fitzroy vs. St Kilda (13th) - Western Oval - 10,809 (L)

8. The AFL regularly leaked sensitive information provided to the League by Fitzroy about Club finances, in order for their media flunkies like Mike Sheahan to write negative stories about Fitzroy, which in turn scared off potential sponsors.

9. The AFL regularly tried to tell potential sponsors who inquired about the possibility of sponsoring Fitzroy that they "shouldn't bother, because Fitzroy would not be in the competition for much longer." (That information comes straight from a Fitzroy director at the time)

10. The AFL brought in a new rule regarding the salary cap, widely known as the "Fitzroy rule", demanding that all clubs pay a certain minimum percentage of the cap, or have punitive measures taken against them by the League. It was an open secret amongst all club administrations that this "rule" was imposed to make life more difficult for Fitzroy.

11. the AFL advised player manager Damien Smith on how best the Bears could secure Alistair Lynch from Fitzroy and stay under the salary cap. Lynch's leaving triggered a player exodus, as he was largely regarded as one of Fitzroy's two best players. In hindsight, that was the point that Fitzroy went downhill sharply. See above).

12. The AFL threatened to sue Fitzroy for $250,000 that had been paid to Fitzroy by CUB as part of a club sponsorship, which included selling CUB's product in the Fitzroy Club Hotel. CUB was the AFL's sponsor and the AFL thought they should have received the money instead of Fitzroy. This was despite the fact that CUB had been a minor sponsor of Fitzroy for over ten years previously. The AFL even threatened to reduce the dividend to other clubs by the amount Fitzroy received, in an underhanded scheme to get other clubs to pressure us. This was another reason the Lions were forced to make a deal to play at the Western Oval, which in turn alienated some supporters and players. That deal included Footscray loaning Fitzroy the $250,000 demanded by the AFL - for a loan which, mind you, wasn't even due until the following year.

Alistair Lynch later said that Fitzroy's forced move to the Western Oval was the major reason why he decided to leave Fitzroy and sign with the Bears. Broderick, Gale, Elliott and Dundas followed Lynch shortly after. Robert Shaw, the Fitzroy coach at the time, lamented that he'd just lost his next three club captains.

13. From 1993 the AFL issued a number of solvency notices to Fitzroy where the club had to satisfy AFL criteria that they could meet their financial debts for the next 12 months or their AFL licence would be withdrawn. Fitzroy received several solvency notices from the AFL, despite many of the Victorian clubs having higher debts. Obviously, different standards were applied to us. You can guess why.

14. The AFL objected to a campaign where Fitzroy made 10c from every can of Solo drink sold, because Paul Roos' jumper in the advertising campaign had an AFL logo on it. The AFL was sponsored by Coca Cola.

15. The AFL objected to a Fitzroy sponsorship deal with Schweppes because they were sponsored by Coca Cola. Fitzroy managed to raise $110,000 from this sponsorship before it was rendered untenable by AFL interference.

16- The AFL objected to a Fitzroy sponsorship deal with Pay TV provider Galaxy, supposedly because it might clash with their Channel 7 deal.

17. Fitzroy was refused by the AFL to allow businessman Bernie Ahern to loan money to help the Lions. The AFL could have helped Fitzroy at no financial risk to themselves or the other clubs in the competition, but didn't want to.

18. The AFL refused to release a debenture charge over the Fitzroy Club Hotel for $250,000 even though Fitzroy had paid it back....until legal action by Fitzroy was threatened. The AFL backed down when that occurred..

19. The AFL repeatedly requested that Fitzroy directors call a meeting of Fitzroy members and shareholders to change the articles of association to "merge", without members and shareholders' agreement/consent.

20. The AFL refused in April 1996 to pay out a dividend in advance to keep Fitzroy in the competition, despite a Fitzroy promise to "merge" at the end of the year.

21. The AFL "proposed" several times, at the end of 1995, that Fitzroy hand in its licence and be run by an AFL-run company with a new licence called Fitzroy Lions Pty. Ltd. and if a "merge" was not affected by the end of 1996, would be liquidated. And we were supposed to do this in return for "assistance packages" to keep the club going. That way Fitzroy's creditors wouldn't have to be paid. This made secured creditors like Nauru very nervous. It wasnt the AFL that appointed an administrator in 1996 - it as Nauru to recover their debt when the AFL refused to guarantee it would be paid in the event of a merger.

22. The AFL in early 1996 refused a two-week advancement of $100,000 from a $1.1 million regular AFL dividend to the club to help with cash flow.

23. Fitzroy's auditors KPMG were even raided by the Australian Securities Commission under a warrant to investigate Fitzroy for 'suspect trading while insolvent' for 1993 and 1996. The ASC claimed they were acting on information passed to them. The only bodies with full access to Fitzroy's exact finances were Fitzroy and the AFL. No action was taken by the ASC.

24. Even right at the end, the AFL gave Fitzroy and North Melbourne until July 5th 1996 to complete a merger deal to combine the clubs' AFL operations (which was the Fitzroy's boards preferred option), only to give the go-ahead to a forced Brisbane-Fitzroy scenario on July 4th (in a deal done with the Fitzroy administrator).

25. During merger negotiations with North Melbourne, the AFL were telling North Melbourne that if they held out, they wouldn't have to pay Fitzroy creditors at all and would receive all of the financial package ($6 million) for completion of this deal themselves, forcing Nauru and other creditors to take their own actions to try to recover anything owed to them. Hello administrator. The AFL promptly started dealing with the administrator to bring into effect its preferred "merger" with the Bears. $6 million and players to boost the Bears under the guise of a "merger".

This was despite the fact that the Fitzroy directors had already done a deal to settle with Nauru out of that $6 million financial package. However, on the strong advice of the AFL, North refused to authorise Fitzroy to pay any more than $550,000.

There is a reason why Richmond and the bulldogs are still in the competition today, their fans got behind their club and saved them, Fitzroy fans didn't do the same. Their demise was sad but they brought it upon themselves. Blaming the AFL is just a cop out.

In Richmond's case you're probably correct, courtesy of the MCG as a home ground, a training venue right next door at the Punt Road Oval that they owned, combined with a large supporter base. However in Footscray's case they were gifted with money (that didn't have to be paid back) to the tune $8.4 million between 2002-2009. Peter Gordon said without that money, Footscray would have merged or exited the competition.

Total gift money from the AFL via the 'Competitive Balance Fund (2002-2009)

• Western Bulldogs - $8.4 million
• North Melbourne - $5.8 million
• Melbourne - $5.25 million
• Carlton - $2.1 million

Fitzroy received nothing.

 

[Rabman]

Not through their own choice. Fitzroy were forced to move from their preferred home ground - twice (1966 and 1984)

Fitzroy Football Club left Brunswick Street Oval (B.S.O) in 1966 because the ground facilities became unfit for VFL football and it had no power to fix said facilities.

Unfortunately it was the Fitzroy Cricket Club that controlled the ground...not the Football Club. While the local council refused to spend any money on the ground, the far wealthier Fitzroy Cricket Club also refused to spend any money.

Fitzroy Football Club paid the Fitzroy Cricket Club to use the ground and about a thousand cricket club members got into the ground for free every weekend in the football season to watch Fitzroy Football Club.

The football club proposed a number of initiatives to try and stay at the B.S.O which obviously was their heartland. They suggested that the Fitzroy Cricket Club and the Fitzroy Football Club form one club, which the cricket club rejected. (this happened at Carlton). An offer by Fitzroy Football Club to borrow $400,000 from the Fitzroy council to upgrade the ground was also rejected by the Cricket Club. The football club also wanted a forty year lease which was opposed by the Council, although the council had agreed to give them a 21 year lease with no funds for subsequent improvement, which the football club found unacceptable, given that the Cricket Club still controlled the ground.

Meanwhile of course prospective VFL players didn’t want to play for Fitzroy because of the poor facilities and often went to neighbouring clubs Carlton and Collingwood because of their better facilities and ground arrangements, and according to Billy Stephens, their better ability to find them jobs from industry and other places located in their larger geographical area. Note that when Fitzroy was on or close to the bottom of the ladder in 1963-66, this co-incided with the worst disrepair of Brunswick Street in its history.

After the Brunswick Street football rooms were finally condemned by the local council health officer, which made them unusable, Fitzroy Football Club made a number of approaches to share grounds with Northcote and Preston in the VFA. But these came to nothing.

Fitzroy would have moved to the Junction Oval for the 1967 season where the St Kilda Cricket Club wanted them as a tenant, but a large number of St Kilda Cricket Club members and supporters opposed the move and it was quashed. Fitzroy instead had no choice but to go to Princes Park instead for the 1967, 1968 and 1969 seasons, when it finally negotiated a successful move to the Junction Oval for the 1970 season.

Interestingly in 1969 when the Fitzroy City Council heard that Fitzroy were set to leave Princes Park, they made an approach to the Fitzroy to return to the Brunswick Street Oval. Fitzroy Football Club agreed to return if ground works, including extensive improvements to the outer were carried out and new player rooms and public toilets were built. Unfortunately no agreement could be reached between the Council, the Cricket Club and the Football Club over what ground improvements were needed.

At the Junction Oval there was a real sense of Fitzroy community, even though it was in St Kilda. It was our ground, one we shared with no-one else. It was a superb ground to play on, especially after the mud-heap of Brunswick Oval. I never actually saw a VFL match at the Brunswick Oval, but there are plenty of stories of how much of a mud-slog it was. Standing in front of the Kevin Murray Stand at the Junction Oval surrounded by thousands of Fitzroy people at a game was a fantastic experience. One that was certainly not replicated at Victoria Park and Princes Park. Fitzroy players such as Paul Roos concur.

Fitzroy were forced to move from the Junction Oval in 1984 as part of VFL's ground rationalisation policy, beginning the process of the Club depending on other clubs such as Carlton and Collingwood (their traditional rivals) to generate significant revenue from a home ground.



Fitzroy did have their own training facilities until 1984.

The Club had plans to return to Brunswick Street and make it their permanent training venue in the early 90s. They had done a deal with the local council in 1993 and were trying to secure funding of $300,000 to make such a move a reality by upgrading the facilities to a level needed for an AFL club. Fitzroy's social club was just up the road at the corner of Brunswick Street and St Georges Road too, so it could have developed into a real Fitzroy enclave, extending out to Fitzroy's old recruiting zone towards Doncaster.

Many attempts to increase revenue for goals such as that, were stymied by the AFL, or the clubs that owned Vic. Park and Pricnes Park (see below for an example



1983 average home game attendance: (second last year at Fitzroy's home ground - the Junction Oval)

Fitzroy - 19,102
Geelong - 19,066
Hawthorn - 20,202
North Melbourne - 18,850
Footscray - 18,961
St Kilda - 20,189

In 1981, Fitzroy had the fourth highest membership in the league.

Home game averages for the last 10 years (with no actual home ground of our own and only a share of the revenue)

87- 11,498
88- 12,248
89- 13,965
90- 12,403
91- 11,240
92- 13,709
93- 14,672
94- 12,561
95- 11,587
96- 9,482 - the lowest in the league, 2nd lowest was Footscray with 18,073

What hurt Fitzroy the most and cost us (and the current secretary at Fitzroy will tell you this) was our lack of a home ground. Fitzroy were forced from the Junction Oval, by the VFL. This is when Fitzroy's real problems started.



Errr..yes. That's what happens when your best players go elsewhere. In 1993 Fitzroy won 10 games from a possible 20 with a percentage of 99.50. The formation of the nucleus of a good young team brought hopes that Fitzroy would revive on the field, which in turn would result in an financial turn-around. Two years later, the best players from that side were at other clubs. Paul Roos (Sydney), Paul Broderick (Richmond), Matthew Armstrong (North Melbourne) Alistair Lynch (Brisbane), Matthew Dundas (Richmond), Ross Lyon (Brisbane), Michael Gale (Richmond), Jamie Elliott (Richmond) just to name a few.



1. Fitzroy was refused permission by the AFL to partially relocate to Canberra, and play seven home games there each season, despite having negotiated a deal which would have netted the Club an extra million dollars a year.

Initially, the club was told that Fitzroy's application to play 4 home games in Canberra (which would have netted the club $350,000 annually guaranteed) would "not be a credible exercise" in the Canberra market and would "not be enough games to be worthwhile."

Ross Oakley later said, in an amazingly offensive public statement, that Fitzroy was their 'worst product" and that the AFL wasn't going to send their 'worst product" up to Canberra. (Very clear that the aim of such a statement was to damage the public reputation of Fitzroy)

Fitzroy then offered to play 7 home games in Canberra, which would have netted Fitzroy at least $700,000 a year. In fact, when adding in corporate sponsorship, and ground rights at Bruce Stadium (which would have been upgraded), Fitzroy's projections showed they would have made $1 million extra per season.

Fitzroy's application had the support of the 'AFL for Canberra' organisation, the Canberra Raiders, the Ainslie Football Club and the ACT chief minister, who offered to upgrade Bruce Stadium. However, the AFL point-blank refused to entertain the idea. An AFL commissioner later admitted that the reason why the AFL knocked it back was because they wanted Port Adelaide in the competition, and wanted to keep the pressure on Fitzroy to "merge".

2. Fitzroy was forced to move from the Junction Oval at the end of 1984 through the AFL's ground rationalisation policy, then was knocked back to play out of Waverley, forcing the club to move to Princes Park and Victoria Park at relatively poor deals right throughout the late 1980's and 1990's. (In the final washup, we received no revenue in the end from our time at Princes Park. Not one red cent)

3. In 1986, a Melbourne-based company, Hecron, had agreed to become a partial owner of Fitzroy in return for financing the club to the tune of $2.6 million (which would have enabled the club to pay off all existing debts and afford to pay for new facilities and players). The League vetoed that deal.

4. Fitzroy was given no financial assistance to play home games in Tasmania (despite pioneering the move), paying all associated expenses out of its own pocket. We had to pay the whole cost off our own bat, including accommodation. We even ended up having to billet players in supporters' homes. Since that time, AFL support for Hawthorn and St Kilda in Tasmania has been enormous.

5. Fitzroy was refused permission by the AFL to redirect their annual AFL dividend to the banks to service loans.

6. The AFL refused, on at least three different occasions, to guarantee Fitzroy's annual dividend (paid to all clubs as a matter of course), which made it impossible to borrow money or service loans to aid cash flow. They guaranteed the dividend for all other clubs.

7. Over the head of Fitzroy, the AFL guaranteed Carlton 22 matches at Princes Park from 1993-2000 irrespective of whether Fitzroy played there or not. Fitzroy had no bargaining power to negotiate a better ground deal with Carlton. When Carlton came with a poorer deal from 1993, Fitzroy had to either accept a deal in which they would make no ground revenue or consider a move.

Victoria Park and Princes Park were quite unsuitable for Fitzroy. They were owned by Fitzroy's near rivals and in the ground sharing deals, Fitzroy was very much the minor partner. For example Fitzroy’s existing six year lease of Princes Park from 1987-1992 was completely unsatisfactory and contributed largely to Fitzroy's poor financial situation. Over the head of Fitzroy, the AFL had guaranteed Carlton 22 matches at Princes Park from 1993-2000 irrespective of whether Fitzroy played there or not. Therefore at the end of 1992, when their lease ran out, Fitzroy had no bargaining power to negotiate a better ground deal with Carlton. When Carlton presented Fitzroy with a poorer deal than the 1987-1992 lease in 1993, Fitzroy had to either accept a deal in which they would make absolutely no ground revenue or consider a move either back to Victoria Park (last match played there was in 1999) or the only other remaining option - the Western Oval.

The negotiations dragged on so long (laegley becaue of the AFL guarantee to Carlton - which meant Calrton didn't have to negotiate) that in 1993, Fitzroy played at Princes Park without a lease and received a bill for $6,000 from Carlton as their 1993 revenue from the home ground. Yet Fitzroy still made a profit that year due to other new sources of revenue they had developed, such as the successful establishment of the "Fitzroy Club Hotel" in Northcote, just north of the Brunswick Street Oval. There were also plans to move back to the Brunswick Street Oval and use it as the club's training base.

Fitzroy continued to make a profit in 1994 and 1995 thanks to a new, far better deal at the Western Oval. See below for details.

Princes Park lease: Fitzroy gained a small amount of income from perimeter fence advertising, nothing at all from other ground advertising, none from catering and a small amount from reserve seating. No wonder Fitzroy made losses every year – they were gaining very little income from their home ground and hadn’t done so – since they were forced to leave the Junction Oval in 1984.

Western Oval lease: For their home games, Fitzroy received all revenue from nearly all advertising space at the ground as well as all reserve set revenue, all car-parking revenue, as well as having free access to all corporate facilities and all outer ground catering rights. Just by moving to the Western Oval, Fitzroy made an extra $400,000 per year.

Even then, coach Robert Shaw was utterly disgusted when our first home games at the Western Oval in 1994 were fixtured against lowly Brisbane and Sydney. Conversely home games against high drawing opponents in Essendon, Carlton and Geelong were scheduled elsewhere.

1994 Fitzroy home games
Fitzroy vs. Essendon (10th on ladder) - Princes Park (no ground revenue) - 24,872 (Win for Fitzroy)
Fitzroy vs. Brisbane Bears (12th) - Western Oval - 8,829 (W)
Fitzroy vs. Sydney Swans (15th) - Western Oval - 10,514 (W)
Fitzroy vs. North Melbourne (3rd) - Western Oval - 11,334 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Carlton (5th) - Waverley - 19,090 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Melbourne (4th) - Western Oval - 8,484 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Collingwood (8th) - Western Oval - 15,394 (L)
Fitzroy vs. West Coast (1st) - Western Oval - 5,334 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Geelong (2nd) - Princes Park (no ground revenue) - 11,388 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Richmond (9th) - Western Oval - 12,122 (L)
Fitzroy vs. St Kilda (13th) - Western Oval - 10,809 (L)

8. The AFL regularly leaked sensitive information provided to the League by Fitzroy about Club finances, in order for their media flunkies like Mike Sheahan to write negative stories about Fitzroy, which in turn scared off potential sponsors.

9. The AFL regularly tried to tell potential sponsors who inquired about the possibility of sponsoring Fitzroy that they "shouldn't bother, because Fitzroy would not be in the competition for much longer." (That information comes straight from a Fitzroy director at the time)

10. The AFL brought in a new rule regarding the salary cap, widely known as the "Fitzroy rule", demanding that all clubs pay a certain minimum percentage of the cap, or have punitive measures taken against them by the League. It was an open secret amongst all club administrations that this "rule" was imposed to make life more difficult for Fitzroy.

11. the AFL advised player manager Damien Smith on how best the Bears could secure Alistair Lynch from Fitzroy and stay under the salary cap. Lynch's leaving triggered a player exodus, as he was largely regarded as one of Fitzroy's two best players. In hindsight, that was the point that Fitzroy went downhill sharply. See above).

12. The AFL threatened to sue Fitzroy for $250,000 that had been paid to Fitzroy by CUB as part of a club sponsorship, which included selling CUB's product in the Fitzroy Club Hotel. CUB was the AFL's sponsor and the AFL thought they should have received the money instead of Fitzroy. This was despite the fact that CUB had been a minor sponsor of Fitzroy for over ten years previously. The AFL even threatened to reduce the dividend to other clubs by the amount Fitzroy received, in an underhanded scheme to get other clubs to pressure us. This was another reason the Lions were forced to make a deal to play at the Western Oval, which in turn alienated some supporters and players. That deal included Footscray loaning Fitzroy the $250,000 demanded by the AFL - for a loan which, mind you, wasn't even due until the following year.

Alistair Lynch later said that Fitzroy's forced move to the Western Oval was the major reason why he decided to leave Fitzroy and sign with the Bears. Broderick, Gale, Elliott and Dundas followed Lynch shortly after. Robert Shaw, the Fitzroy coach at the time, lamented that he'd just lost his next three club captains.

13. From 1993 the AFL issued a number of solvency notices to Fitzroy where the club had to satisfy AFL criteria that they could meet their financial debts for the next 12 months or their AFL licence would be withdrawn. Fitzroy received several solvency notices from the AFL, despite many of the Victorian clubs having higher debts. Obviously, different standards were applied to us. You can guess why.

14. The AFL objected to a campaign where Fitzroy made 10c from every can of Solo drink sold, because Paul Roos' jumper in the advertising campaign had an AFL logo on it. The AFL was sponsored by Coca Cola.

15. The AFL objected to a Fitzroy sponsorship deal with Schweppes because they were sponsored by Coca Cola. Fitzroy managed to raise $110,000 from this sponsorship before it was rendered untenable by AFL interference.

16- The AFL objected to a Fitzroy sponsorship deal with Pay TV provider Galaxy, supposedly because it might clash with their Channel 7 deal.

17. Fitzroy was refused by the AFL to allow businessman Bernie Ahern to loan money to help the Lions. The AFL could have helped Fitzroy at no financial risk to themselves or the other clubs in the competition, but didn't want to.

18. The AFL refused to release a debenture charge over the Fitzroy Club Hotel for $250,000 even though Fitzroy had paid it back....until legal action by Fitzroy was threatened. The AFL backed down when that occurred..

19. The AFL repeatedly requested that Fitzroy directors call a meeting of Fitzroy members and shareholders to change the articles of association to "merge", without members and shareholders' agreement/consent.

20. The AFL refused in April 1996 to pay out a dividend in advance to keep Fitzroy in the competition, despite a Fitzroy promise to "merge" at the end of the year.

21. The AFL "proposed" several times, at the end of 1995, that Fitzroy hand in its licence and be run by an AFL-run company with a new licence called Fitzroy Lions Pty. Ltd. and if a "merge" was not affected by the end of 1996, would be liquidated. And we were supposed to do this in return for "assistance packages" to keep the club going. That way Fitzroy's creditors wouldn't have to be paid. This made secured creditors like Nauru very nervous. It wasnt the AFL that appointed an administrator in 1996 - it as Nauru to recover their debt when the AFL refused to guarantee it would be paid in the event of a merger.

22. The AFL in early 1996 refused a two-week advancement of $100,000 from a $1.1 million regular AFL dividend to the club to help with cash flow.

23. Fitzroy's auditors KPMG were even raided by the Australian Securities Commission under a warrant to investigate Fitzroy for 'suspect trading while insolvent' for 1993 and 1996. The ASC claimed they were acting on information passed to them. The only bodies with full access to Fitzroy's exact finances were Fitzroy and the AFL. No action was taken by the ASC.

24. Even right at the end, the AFL gave Fitzroy and North Melbourne until July 5th 1996 to complete a merger deal to combine the clubs' AFL operations (which was the Fitzroy's boards preferred option), only to give the go-ahead to a forced Brisbane-Fitzroy scenario on July 4th (in a deal done with the Fitzroy administrator).

25. During merger negotiations with North Melbourne, the AFL were telling North Melbourne that if they held out, they wouldn't have to pay Fitzroy creditors at all and would receive all of the financial package ($6 million) for completion of this deal themselves, forcing Nauru and other creditors to take their own actions to try to recover anything owed to them. Hello administrator. The AFL promptly started dealing with the administrator to bring into effect its preferred "merger" with the Bears. $6 million and players to boost the Bears under the guise of a "merger".

This was despite the fact that the Fitzroy directors had already done a deal to settle with Nauru out of that $6 million financial package. However, on the strong advice of the AFL, North refused to authorise Fitzroy to pay any more than $550,000.



In Richmond's case you're probably correct, courtesy of the MCG as a home ground, a training venue right next door at the PUnt Road Oval that they owned combined with a large supporter base. However in Footscray's case they were gifted with money (that didn't have to be paid back) to the tune $8.4 million between 2002-2009. Peter Gordon said without that money, Footscray would have merged or exited the competition.

Totals gift money from the AFL via the 'Competitive Balance Fund (2002-2009)

• Western Bulldogs - $8.4 million
• North Melbourne - $5.8 million
• Melbourne - $5.25 million
• Carlton - $2.1 million

Fitzroy received nothing.

Offer was their in 1986 to go up to Brisbane, all the players supported the move, why didn't they go?, it would save so much trouble and heartache of what eventually came around. Remember the AFL had no money back in 80's and 90's, that's why West coast, Brisbane bears and Adelaide were all charged money about 6 million each to be allowed into the competition in order to fund all the broke Victorian clubs. I still think Fitzroy were culpable mainly for the demise, but i appreciate u outlying and opposing view.

 

[Roylion]

Offer was their in 1986 to go up to Brisbane, all the players supported the move, why didn't they go?,

How many games do Brisbane play in Victoria each year? Might have been good for the players, but that wasn't the Fitzroy board's only concern.

Fitzroy's preference was to merge with a Melbourne based club. There were three serious attempts to do that...

• Melbourne (1986 to form the Melbourne Lions)
• Footscray (1989 to form the Fitzroy Bulldogs)
• North Melbourne (1996 to form the North Fitzroy Kangaroos)

Details here.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_VFL/AFL_clubs

Remember the AFL had no money back in 80's and 90's,

They had $12 million to spend on merging clubs in 1996. $1 million would have kep Fitzroy in the competition. Footscray alone received over $8 million a decade later

I still think Fitzroy were culpable mainly for the demise...

Why?

 

[killer]

yup
never adapted to the "modern games" people play

"o the games people play now
Every night n every day now
Never meaning what they say now
Never saying what they mean

And they wile away the hours
In their ivory towers
Till they're covered up with flowers
In the back of a black limousine"

do bee do bee do

 

[Rabman]

How many games do Brisbane play in Victoria each year? Might have been good for the players, but that wasn't the Fitzroy board's only concern.

Fitzroy's preference was to merge with a Melbourne based club. There were three serious attempts to do that...

• Melbourne (1986 to form the Melbourne Lions)
• Footscray (1989 to form the Fitzroy Bulldogs)
• North Melbourne (1996 to form the North Fitzroy Kangaroos)

Details here.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_VFL/AFL_clubs



They had $12 million to spend on merging clubs in 1996. $1 million would have kep Fitzroy in the competition. Footscray alone received over $8 million a decade later



Why?

If it wasn't for north being so powerful at the time who ended up winning 2 premierships in the late 90's, it probably would of come to fruition, people were scared that it would of created a super team thus 13-1 vote against the merger occurred. Yes the AFL was offering money to merge, but even if Fitzroy would of been saved, they would of continued to hemerge money and it probably would of just delayed the inevitable, the fact 11 teams in Victoria is far to many. i still think that Fitzroy supporters could of done more in their last season to help save the club from what unfortunately occurred.

 

[Roylion]

If it wasn't for north being so powerful at the time who ended up winning 2 premierships in the late 90's, it probably would of come to fruition, people were scared that it would of created a super team thus 13-1 vote against the merger occurred.

North were asking for too many Fitzroy players compared to the Bears. The Bears finished third in 1996.

Yes the AFL was offering money to merge, but even if Fitzroy would of been saved, they would of continued to hemerge money and it probably would of just delayed the inevitable,

Not if they had been gifted the amount of money that Footscray had been. Fitzroy could have secured a permanent training base at the BSO, moved to the Docklands as their home ground. Fitzroy actually made a small annual profit from 1993-95, courtesy of their social club just up from the BSO.

the fact 11 teams in Victoria is far to many.

That's a matter of opinion.

i still think that Fitzroy supporters could of done more in their last season to help save the club from what unfortunately occurred.

What would you have suggested? Every attempt to generate revenue was stymied by the AFL, who were scaring off potential sponsors and creditors. Details already provided.

 

[Len S]

North were asking for too many Fitzroy players compared to the Bears. The Bears finished third in 1996.



Not if they had been gifted the amount of money that Footscray had been. Fitzroy could have secured a permanent training base at the BSO, moved to the Docklands as their home ground. Fitzroy actually made a small annual profit from 1993-95, courtesy of their social club just up from the BSO.



That's a matter of opinion.



What would you have suggested? Every attempt to generate revenue was stymied by the AFL, who were scaring off potential sponsors and creditors. Details already provided.

Brilliant advocacy Roy...and full of enlightened historical facts.

 

[Roysforever]

Brilliant advocacy Roy...and full of enlightened historical facts.

Exactly right. I'm still trying to work out if Rabman is trolling. Nonetheless with Roylion's brilliant straight bat I think he is unlucky to miss selection for the Indian tour.

 

[Roylion]

Exactly right. I'm still trying to work out if Rabman is trolling. Nonetheless with Roylion's brilliant straight bat I think he is unlucky to miss selection for the Indian tour.

I like to think I'm a reasonable player of 'spin'.

I'll leave other people to judge whether I actually am or not.

When are the Fitzroy XI touring the sub-continent?

 

[TheSmokingGun]

1. Fitzroy was refused permission by the AFL to partially relocate to Canberra, and play seven home games there each season, despite having negotiated a deal which would have netted the Club an extra million dollars a year.

Initially, the club was told that Fitzroy's application to play 4 home games in Canberra (which would have netted the club $350,000 annually guaranteed) would "not be a credible exercise" in the Canberra market and would "not be enough games to be worthwhile."

Ross Oakley later said, in an amazingly offensive public statement, that Fitzroy was their 'worst product" and that the AFL wasn't going to send their 'worst product" up to Canberra. (Very clear that the aim of such a statement was to damage the public reputation of Fitzroy)

Fitzroy then offered to play 7 home games in Canberra, which would have netted Fitzroy at least $700,000 a year. In fact, when adding in corporate sponsorship, and ground rights at Bruce Stadium (which would have been upgraded), Fitzroy's projections showed they would have made $1 million extra per season.

Fitzroy's application had the support of the 'AFL for Canberra' organisation, the Canberra Raiders, the Ainslie Football Club and the ACT chief minister, who offered to upgrade Bruce Stadium. However, the AFL point-blank refused to entertain the idea. An AFL commissioner later admitted that the reason why the AFL knocked it back was because they wanted Port Adelaide in the competition, and wanted to keep the pressure on Fitzroy to "merge".

2. Fitzroy was forced to move from the Junction Oval at the end of 1984 through the AFL's ground rationalisation policy, then was knocked back to play out of Waverley, forcing the club to move to Princes Park and Victoria Park at relatively poor deals right throughout the late 1980's and 1990's. (In the final washup, we received no revenue in the end from our time at Princes Park. Not one red cent)

3. In 1986, a Melbourne-based company, Hecron, had agreed to become a partial owner of Fitzroy in return for financing the club to the tune of $2.6 million (which would have enabled the club to pay off all existing debts and afford to pay for new facilities and players). The League vetoed that deal.

4. Fitzroy was given no financial assistance to play home games in Tasmania (despite pioneering the move), paying all associated expenses out of its own pocket. We had to pay the whole cost off our own bat, including accommodation. We even ended up having to billet players in supporters' homes. Since that time, AFL support for Hawthorn and St Kilda in Tasmania has been enormous.

5. Fitzroy was refused permission by the AFL to redirect their annual AFL dividend to the banks to service loans.

6. The AFL refused, on at least three different occasions, to guarantee Fitzroy's annual dividend (paid to all clubs as a matter of course), which made it impossible to borrow money or service loans to aid cash flow. They guaranteed the dividend for all other clubs.

7. Over the head of Fitzroy, the AFL guaranteed Carlton 22 matches at Princes Park from 1993-2000 irrespective of whether Fitzroy played there or not. Fitzroy had no bargaining power to negotiate a better ground deal with Carlton. When Carlton came with a poorer deal from 1993, Fitzroy had to either accept a deal in which they would make no ground revenue or consider a move.

Victoria Park and Princes Park were quite unsuitable for Fitzroy. They were owned by Fitzroy's near rivals and in the ground sharing deals, Fitzroy was very much the minor partner. For example Fitzroy’s existing six year lease of Princes Park from 1987-1992 was completely unsatisfactory and contributed largely to Fitzroy's poor financial situation. Over the head of Fitzroy, the AFL had guaranteed Carlton 22 matches at Princes Park from 1993-2000 irrespective of whether Fitzroy played there or not. Therefore at the end of 1992, when their lease ran out, Fitzroy had no bargaining power to negotiate a better ground deal with Carlton. When Carlton presented Fitzroy with a poorer deal than the 1987-1992 lease in 1993, Fitzroy had to either accept a deal in which they would make absolutely no ground revenue or consider a move either back to Victoria Park (last match played there was in 1999) or the only other remaining option - the Western Oval.

The negotiations dragged on so long (laegley becaue of the AFL guarantee to Carlton - which meant Calrton didn't have to negotiate) that in 1993, Fitzroy played at Princes Park without a lease and received a bill for $6,000 from Carlton as their 1993 revenue from the home ground. Yet Fitzroy still made a profit that year due to other new sources of revenue they had developed, such as the successful establishment of the "Fitzroy Club Hotel" in Northcote, just north of the Brunswick Street Oval. There were also plans to move back to the Brunswick Street Oval and use it as the club's training base.

Fitzroy continued to make a profit in 1994 and 1995 thanks to a new, far better deal at the Western Oval. See below for details.

Princes Park lease: Fitzroy gained a small amount of income from perimeter fence advertising, nothing at all from other ground advertising, none from catering and a small amount from reserve seating. No wonder Fitzroy made losses every year – they were gaining very little income from their home ground and hadn’t done so – since they were forced to leave the Junction Oval in 1984.

Western Oval lease: For their home games, Fitzroy received all revenue from nearly all advertising space at the ground as well as all reserve set revenue, all car-parking revenue, as well as having free access to all corporate facilities and all outer ground catering rights. Just by moving to the Western Oval, Fitzroy made an extra $400,000 per year.

Even then, coach Robert Shaw was utterly disgusted when our first home games at the Western Oval in 1994 were fixtured against lowly Brisbane and Sydney. Conversely home games against high drawing opponents in Essendon, Carlton and Geelong were scheduled elsewhere.

1994 Fitzroy home games
Fitzroy vs. Essendon (10th on ladder) - Princes Park (no ground revenue) - 24,872 (Win for Fitzroy)
Fitzroy vs. Brisbane Bears (12th) - Western Oval - 8,829 (W)
Fitzroy vs. Sydney Swans (15th) - Western Oval - 10,514 (W)
Fitzroy vs. North Melbourne (3rd) - Western Oval - 11,334 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Carlton (5th) - Waverley - 19,090 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Melbourne (4th) - Western Oval - 8,484 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Collingwood (8th) - Western Oval - 15,394 (L)
Fitzroy vs. West Coast (1st) - Western Oval - 5,334 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Geelong (2nd) - Princes Park (no ground revenue) - 11,388 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Richmond (9th) - Western Oval - 12,122 (L)
Fitzroy vs. St Kilda (13th) - Western Oval - 10,809 (L)

8. The AFL regularly leaked sensitive information provided to the League by Fitzroy about Club finances, in order for their media flunkies like Mike Sheahan to write negative stories about Fitzroy, which in turn scared off potential sponsors.

9. The AFL regularly tried to tell potential sponsors who inquired about the possibility of sponsoring Fitzroy that they "shouldn't bother, because Fitzroy would not be in the competition for much longer." (That information comes straight from a Fitzroy director at the time)

10. The AFL brought in a new rule regarding the salary cap, widely known as the "Fitzroy rule", demanding that all clubs pay a certain minimum percentage of the cap, or have punitive measures taken against them by the League. It was an open secret amongst all club administrations that this "rule" was imposed to make life more difficult for Fitzroy.

11. the AFL advised player manager Damien Smith on how best the Bears could secure Alistair Lynch from Fitzroy and stay under the salary cap. Lynch's leaving triggered a player exodus, as he was largely regarded as one of Fitzroy's two best players. In hindsight, that was the point that Fitzroy went downhill sharply. See above).

12. The AFL threatened to sue Fitzroy for $250,000 that had been paid to Fitzroy by CUB as part of a club sponsorship, which included selling CUB's product in the Fitzroy Club Hotel. CUB was the AFL's sponsor and the AFL thought they should have received the money instead of Fitzroy. This was despite the fact that CUB had been a minor sponsor of Fitzroy for over ten years previously. The AFL even threatened to reduce the dividend to other clubs by the amount Fitzroy received, in an underhanded scheme to get other clubs to pressure us. This was another reason the Lions were forced to make a deal to play at the Western Oval, which in turn alienated some supporters and players. That deal included Footscray loaning Fitzroy the $250,000 demanded by the AFL - for a loan which, mind you, wasn't even due until the following year.

Alistair Lynch later said that Fitzroy's forced move to the Western Oval was the major reason why he decided to leave Fitzroy and sign with the Bears. Broderick, Gale, Elliott and Dundas followed Lynch shortly after. Robert Shaw, the Fitzroy coach at the time, lamented that he'd just lost his next three club captains.

13. From 1993 the AFL issued a number of solvency notices to Fitzroy where the club had to satisfy AFL criteria that they could meet their financial debts for the next 12 months or their AFL licence would be withdrawn. Fitzroy received several solvency notices from the AFL, despite many of the Victorian clubs having higher debts. Obviously, different standards were applied to us. You can guess why.

14. The AFL objected to a campaign where Fitzroy made 10c from every can of Solo drink sold, because Paul Roos' jumper in the advertising campaign had an AFL logo on it. The AFL was sponsored by Coca Cola.

15. The AFL objected to a Fitzroy sponsorship deal with Schweppes because they were sponsored by Coca Cola. Fitzroy managed to raise $110,000 from this sponsorship before it was rendered untenable by AFL interference.

16- The AFL objected to a Fitzroy sponsorship deal with Pay TV provider Galaxy, supposedly because it might clash with their Channel 7 deal.

17. Fitzroy was refused by the AFL to allow businessman Bernie Ahern to loan money to help the Lions. The AFL could have helped Fitzroy at no financial risk to themselves or the other clubs in the competition, but didn't want to.

18. The AFL refused to release a debenture charge over the Fitzroy Club Hotel for $250,000 even though Fitzroy had paid it back....until legal action by Fitzroy was threatened. The AFL backed down when that occurred..

19. The AFL repeatedly requested that Fitzroy directors call a meeting of Fitzroy members and shareholders to change the articles of association to "merge", without members and shareholders' agreement/consent.

20. The AFL refused in April 1996 to pay out a dividend in advance to keep Fitzroy in the competition, despite a Fitzroy promise to "merge" at the end of the year.

21. The AFL "proposed" several times, at the end of 1995, that Fitzroy hand in its licence and be run by an AFL-run company with a new licence called Fitzroy Lions Pty. Ltd. and if a "merge" was not affected by the end of 1996, would be liquidated. And we were supposed to do this in return for "assistance packages" to keep the club going. That way Fitzroy's creditors wouldn't have to be paid. This made secured creditors like Nauru very nervous. It wasnt the AFL that appointed an administrator in 1996 - it as Nauru to recover their debt when the AFL refused to guarantee it would be paid in the event of a merger.

22. The AFL in early 1996 refused a two-week advancement of $100,000 from a $1.1 million regular AFL dividend to the club to help with cash flow.

23. Fitzroy's auditors KPMG were even raided by the Australian Securities Commission under a warrant to investigate Fitzroy for 'suspect trading while insolvent' for 1993 and 1996. The ASC claimed they were acting on information passed to them. The only bodies with full access to Fitzroy's exact finances were Fitzroy and the AFL. No action was taken by the ASC.

24. Even right at the end, the AFL gave Fitzroy and North Melbourne until July 5th 1996 to complete a merger deal to combine the clubs' AFL operations (which was the Fitzroy's boards preferred option), only to give the go-ahead to a forced Brisbane-Fitzroy scenario on July 4th (in a deal done with the Fitzroy administrator).

25. During merger negotiations with North Melbourne, the AFL were telling North Melbourne that if they held out, they wouldn't have to pay Fitzroy creditors at all and would receive all of the financial package ($6 million) for completion of this deal themselves, forcing Nauru and other creditors to take their own actions to try to recover anything owed to them. Hello administrator. The AFL promptly started dealing with the administrator to bring into effect its preferred "merger" with the Bears. $6 million and players to boost the Bears under the guise of a "merger".

Wow. I've lost a lot of respect for the AFL as a result of reading this. I'm too young to remember Fitzroy. This is the first post I've read that really explains why Fitzroy were kicked from the national comp. What's even more alarming is that as the AFL continues to expand towards becoming a national comp, we could very much lose another team from Victoria in the same manner.

 

[Len S]

Wow. I've lost a lot of respect for the AFL as a result of reading this. I'm too young to remember Fitzroy. This is the first post I've read that really explains why Fitzroy were kicked from the national comp. What's even more alarming is that as the AFL continues to expand towards becoming a national comp, we could very much lose another team from Victoria in the same manner.

I think the Doggies are safe...great list and big growth in the western corridor, St Kilda have their own territory which the AFL would wish to keep,so I think North will continue to be vulnerable,especially since they have little foreseeable chance of a big final.

 

[TheSmokingGun]

I think the Doggies are safe...great list and big growth in the western corridor, St Kilda have their own territory which the AFL would wish to keep,so I think North will continue to be vulnerable,especially since they have little foreseeable chance of a big final.

North as a club will be fine, but they may have to relocate before the century is out. Gold coast and Brisbane will struggle, but the AFL will continue to pump "Aussies rules in a rugby league" aid into them. If melbourne's rebuild doesn't pan out, then I can see them folding too.

 

[Roysforever]

I like to think I'm a reasonable player of 'spin'.

I'll leave other people to judge whether I actually am or not.

When are the Fitzroy XI touring the sub-continent?

Fyi there is actually a Fitzroy boy on the upcoming tour - Mr Maxwell.

 

[Mobbs]

Strangely a large percentage of Fitzroy Fans I knew could not support any other team so abandoned Aussie Rules completely and transferred their allegiances to the recently formed Melbourne Storm in the NRL

I know a few who did this. A lot of old Fitzroy fans I knew spend a lot more time with Storm or the A-League, whether or not they consider they still have an AFL allegiance.

 

[Roysforever]

I know a few who did this. A lot of old Fitzroy fans I knew spend a lot more time with Storm or the A-League, whether or not they consider they still have an AFL allegiance.

Exhibit A here.

 

[Rabman]

North were asking for too many Fitzroy players compared to the Bears. The Bears finished third in 1996.



Not if they had been gifted the amount of money that Footscray had been. Fitzroy could have secured a permanent training base at the BSO, moved to the Docklands as their home ground. Fitzroy actually made a small annual profit from 1993-95, courtesy of their social club just up from the BSO.



That's a matter of opinion.



What would you have suggested? Every attempt to generate revenue was stymied by the AFL, who were scaring off potential sponsors and creditors. Details already provided.

Why didn't you just move to Brisbane in 1987, look at Sydney, they made the move from South Melbourne and still continue the great tradition of the club in Sydney, they have 12,000 paid up members in Melbourne and get great crowds every time they play in Melbourne, Fitzroy board where naive. Your bordered between Carlton and Collingwood, honestly their was no room for movement and no viability. If u went up their in 1987, the colours would be the same, the tradition, identity and portrayal of the club would still be their, would of saved so much pain and suffering from what took place.

 

[killer]

Why didn't you just move to Brisbane in 1987, look at Sydney, they made the move from South Melbourne and still continue the great tradition of the club in Sydney, they have 12,000 paid up members in Melbourne and get great crowds every time they play in Melbourne, Fitzroy board where naive. Your bordered between Carlton and Collingwood, honestly their was no room for movement and no viability. If u went up their in 1987, the colours would be the same, the tradition, identity and portrayal of the club would still be their, would of saved so much pain and suffering from what took place.

a) why don't you move to Brisbane?

b) what game were you watching in the 1980s?

c ) better naïve than a bunch of crooks

d) 1987?- you'd want Skase or whatever megalomaniac AFL 80s implant running your football team?

 

[Roylion]

Why didn't you just move to Brisbane in 1987,

Fitzroy's preference was to exhaust every avenue to remain as a stand alone entity in their own right. In Melbourne. The next preference was to merge with a Melbourne based club and only then a relocation to another state.

While Leon Weigard regrets not taking the Brisbane option in 1986, he says this with the benefit of hindsight.

Myself, I would have preferred a merger with Melbourne to form the Melbourne Lions. Fitzroy would have kept their colours, mascot, played out of the MCG and would have played at least 12 times in Melbourne per season, instead of the six games (sometimes 5) the Brisbane Lions currently have. The proposed jumper of the new team was essentially the traditional red and blue Melbourne jumper with a gold band separating the two colours, the gold Fitzroy lion logo featured on the front and a gold number on the back.

Song might have been

We are the boys from old Melbourne
We wear the colours red, gold and blue,
We will always fight for victory,
We will always see it through,
Win or lose we do or die,
In defeat we'll always try,
Melbourne, Melbourne
The Club we hold so dear,
Premiers we'll be this year.

Most of the above merger details had been worked out in negotiations by both boards in 1986. It was established that Fitzroy chairman Leon Weigard and Melbourne president Stuart Spencer would share presidential duties, while the committee would be an even split of the current Fitzroy and Melbourne boards. The new club would have had the pick of both existing lists, making them immediately strong onfield.

look at Sydney, they made the move from South Melbourne and still continue the great tradition of the club in Sydney, they have 12,000 paid up members in Melbourne

But play only five times a year in Melbourne for those "12,000 paid up members". They don't appear on FTA televisin in Melbourne that often either.

Fitzroy board where naive. Your bordered between Carlton and Collingwood, honestly their was no room for movement and no viability.

Fitzroy were looking to move out to their recruiting zone towards Doncaster which was the centre of their supporter base and plenty of room for growth. The cricket club had already gone.

If u went up their in 1987, the colours would be the same, the tradition, identity and portrayal of the club would still be their, would of saved so much pain and suffering from what took place.

Could've, would've, should've. Very easy to say in hindsight.

Why didn't Adelaide pursue their merger proposal of the "Adelaide Lions" with Fitzroy in 1996 with a little more vigor?

 

[Metricon]

Was a Fitzroy fan who never went to Brisbane. Spent many years in the wilderness not having to worry about September events that might clash. When I lived in Nth Fitzroy I did enjoy a cold beer and $5 steak at the front bar of the Lord Jim (the Clayton & Rendell era).

Now a Suns Cheer Squad member and still loathe Brisbane (an industrial suburb north of the Gold Coast that you drive through to get to the retirement village - Sunshine Coast).

 

[JPetro83]

Why didn't you just move to Brisbane in 1987, look at Sydney, they made the move from South Melbourne and still continue the great tradition of the club in Sydney, they have 12,000 paid up members in Melbourne and get great crowds every time they play in Melbourne, Fitzroy board where naive. Your bordered between Carlton and Collingwood, honestly their was no room for movement and no viability. If u went up their in 1987, the colours would be the same, the tradition, identity and portrayal of the club would still be their, would of saved so much pain and suffering from what took place.

* THERE

I agree, I had the same convo the other day with someone. If the Fitzroy footy club relocated to Brisbane in 1987 they would have still been the "Brisbane Lions" but at least the FFC tradition, history and colours would have been kept... not to mention the 8 VFL premiership they had won could have been counted against the "Brisbane Lions"
Fitzroy were better off just folding or withdrawing from the AFL at the end of 96 instead of the false merger which was juts a renaming of the Brisbane Beats to the Brisbane Lions.

 

[Rabman]

Fitzroy's preference was to exhaust every avenue to remain as a stand alone entity in their own right. In

Why didn't Adelaide pursue their merger proposal of the "Adelaide Lions" with Fitzroy in 1996 with a little more vigor?

The colours Adelaide wear are the state colours red, blue and yellow seen in state games, the crow represents what were named after, the crow eaters, your club has nothing in connection with us and it never would of worked, we have a fantastic support in Melbourne, seen myself with games played in Victoria. i still stand by my statement you should of moved up north in 86, 11 teams in Melbourne was never going to be sustainable 10 even now is still to many, your attendances from 87-96 was the worst in Victoria by a fare margin and barley that much better than Sydney and Brisbane at the time.