Which States are and aren't pulling their weight?

[The_Reaper]

To be fair most would fall under the NSW system first and foremost, Haddin was from Gundagai from memory, NSW is the right classification in this instance.

Yeah. That's why I'm counting ACT players as home state for NSW.

I just think that NSW's consistently strong production of players suggests that NSW/ACT could support a second shield side.

 

[eddiesmith]

But what does it indicate about Victorian cricket?

It suggests to me that there is less talent coming through the Victorian system than there should be, which is getting reflected when it comes to test players.

AFL is some hindrance but not major, my limited experience is junior pathways are flawed and there is a lot of over powering parents who control which kids get through the systems and which get overlooked. There also seems to be a habit of rep players at junior level staying similar throughout the years, so late bloomers miss out.

But the real biggest one imo is the standard of premier cricket, there is not enough players coming through to justify 18-20 teams in premier cricket. I have felt for a long time it needs to be cut, probably to 2 divisions rather than rid the teams. But the fact the players who can continuously year after year make hundreds at will but have never been able to make it at the next level suggests there is a dilution of talent across the teams.

This is in a state where we do produce plenty of decent bowlers, so there is plenty of bowlers in the Victorian system and our batsmen would be better off if all teams had a couple of decent bowlers instead of 1 in each team who is not available when playing state cricket or injured.

 

[The_Reaper]

AFL is some hindrance but not major, my limited experience is junior pathways are flawed and there is a lot of over powering parents who control which kids get through the systems and which get overlooked. There also seems to be a habit of rep players at junior level staying similar throughout the years, so late bloomers miss out.

But the real biggest one imo is the standard of premier cricket, there is not enough players coming through to justify 18-20 teams in premier cricket. I have felt for a long time it needs to be cut, probably to 2 divisions rather than rid the teams. But the fact the players who can continuously year after year make hundreds at will but have never been able to make it at the next level suggests there is a dilution of talent across the teams.

This is in a state where we do produce plenty of decent bowlers, so there is plenty of bowlers in the Victorian system and our batsmen would be better off if all teams had a couple of decent bowlers instead of 1 in each team who is not available when playing state cricket or injured.

The AFL theory is discredited by the fact that Victoria is still producing fast bowlers.

If AFL were the reason, fast bowlers should be just as effected as batsmen.

 

[eddiesmith]

The AFL theory is discredited by the fact that Victoria is still producing fast bowlers.

If AFL were the reason, fast bowlers should be just as effected as batsmen.

I don't know, fast bowlers aren't always built to be CHFs, I find its batsmen that also often very good midfielders in footy.

But it does have an effect at all levels. The amount of players we have lost over the years because footy pre season starts in November even at the lowest club levels. The guys who still care about cricket don't go to footy training until cricket season finishes, those who love their footy more dump cricket to focus on footy. This isn't even Division 1 local footy either, it gets people in.

There have been a fair few top draft picks who have been good batsmen, Marc Murphy was a good batsmen before joining Carlton, pretty sure he played premier 1st XI cricket right up until the year he was drafted.

It is an issue, Western Royboy is right we cant blame it, there are far bigger issues as well, but it is still another of the smaller issues at play

 

[The Speaker]

The AFL theory is discredited by the fact that Victoria is still producing fast bowlers.

If AFL were the reason, fast bowlers should be just as effected as batsmen.

The collapse in their homegrown Test batsmen is particularly concerning, because historically that has always been Victoria's strength. They've produced Test bowlers, probably more spinners than fast bowlers, but they have produced a whole bunch of great Australian batsmen. Ponsford, Woodfull, Hassett, Miller, Cowper, Jones, Lawry, Harvey, Armstrong, Ryder...

 

[Hamingja]

Matthew Wade came to Victoria because he wouldn't get a game ahead of Tim Paine, went on to play for Australia

In hindsight it might have worked out better if he gave up the gloves at the time and played as a batsman for Tasmania. If he focussed on developing his batting, good chance he'd be in the test top 6 at the moment.

 

[BobbyMorri]

AFL is some hindrance but not major, my limited experience is junior pathways are flawed and there is a lot of over powering parents who control which kids get through the systems and which get overlooked. There also seems to be a habit of rep players at junior level staying similar throughout the years, so late bloomers miss out.

But the real biggest one imo is the standard of premier cricket, there is not enough players coming through to justify 18-20 teams in premier cricket. I have felt for a long time it needs to be cut, probably to 2 divisions rather than rid the teams. But the fact the players who can continuously year after year make hundreds at will but have never been able to make it at the next level suggests there is a dilution of talent across the teams.

This is in a state where we do produce plenty of decent bowlers, so there is plenty of bowlers in the Victorian system and our batsmen would be better off if all teams had a couple of decent bowlers instead of 1 in each team who is not available when playing state cricket or injured.

i remember when Tassie played NSW last in the shield final; this was a big discussion. They thought that one of the reasons why Tassie can keep up with producing players is because all the Tigers play for 1 of the 8 teams in the grade comp in Hobart.

in saying that, looking at Wikipedia, there doesnt seem much correlation for this theory.

Tas: 8 clubs(the Northern clubs dont count)
WA: 16
SA: 13
Qld:12
Vic: 18
NSW:20

my theory about Victoria is the fact that dont have a 2nd first class cricket ground. perhaps most grounds are so AFL-centric, that the basic nets and other facilities might not be available.

 

[western royboy]

AFL is some hindrance but not major, my limited experience is junior pathways are flawed and there is a lot of over powering parents who control which kids get through the systems and which get overlooked. There also seems to be a habit of rep players at junior level staying similar throughout the years, so late bloomers miss out.

But the real biggest one imo is the standard of premier cricket, there is not enough players coming through to justify 18-20 teams in premier cricket. I have felt for a long time it needs to be cut, probably to 2 divisions rather than rid the teams. But the fact the players who can continuously year after year make hundreds at will but have never been able to make it at the next level suggests there is a dilution of talent across the teams.

This is in a state where we do produce plenty of decent bowlers, so there is plenty of bowlers in the Victorian system and our batsmen would be better off if all teams had a couple of decent bowlers instead of 1 in each team who is not available when playing state cricket or injured.

Agree with the majority of this, but we already have a second division and that's the VSDCA. When I was running around as a pup in the mid 90's, my tutors suggested that our standard was equivalent to District / Grade 2nd XI cricket. 18 Premier Clubs is way too many.

 

[western royboy]

i remember when Tassie played NSW last in the shield final; this was a big discussion. They thought that one of the reasons why Tassie can keep up with producing players is because all the Tigers play for 1 of the 8 teams in the grade comp in Hobart.

in saying that, looking at Wikipedia, there doesnt seem much correlation for this theory.

Tas: 8 clubs(the Northern clubs dont count)
WA: 16
SA: 13
Qld:12
Vic: 18
NSW:20

my theory about Victoria is the fact that dont have a 2nd first class cricket ground. perhaps most grounds are so AFL-centric, that the basic nets and other facilities might not be available.

Every District and Sub District Club has good turf nets set up, most are just off the field of play and thus don't meet the first class requirements. Most District Clubs have moved off base and into the suburbs - facilities are not the issue.