Who after Lethal.

[taff wa]

Whats next for Lethal.

If Brisbane win this year's premiership, they arguably would be called the best team ever, what would the next couple of years hold for Leigh Matthews.

Would he keep coaching them indefinitely (ala Sheedy) or maybe just a year or 2. What else could he aspire to achieve after winning several in a row.

 

[kimp]

He'll retire and go back into media. Actually I think he'd make a good Head of football operations.

 

[Cooldude]

He'll keep coaching if he thinks Brisbane can keep winning flags... or the media might hype him up for a fairy tale return to the Hawks.

 

[Runk]

Great question. No idea? Maybe O'Donnell. But Leigh will stay for a while yet.

 

[crazy_big_al]

I think Brisbane will have him for a few more years. He has just signed an extension. But I would think that he will return to the Media after brisbane. I think he will retire after the salary cap gets reduced to the same as the rest of the AFL then he is playing on the same level

 

[Jeebus]

How many coaches have left while their has been winning premierships?

 

[Atreyu]

Well, Norm Smith was sacked from the Demons the year after they won the 1964 premiership. He was then given back the job.. but it just wasnt the same...

havent won anything since..

 

[lasher]

i can only hope he returns to his beloved hawks...
he was a chidhood hero of mine and i always wanted him to coach the hawks one day...he's the man to bring in the flags..
best coach in the league, one of the best players to ever walk a field...player of the century...

lethal is a gun....!!!!

 

[skipper kelly]

Re: Whats next for Lethal.

Originally posted by taff wa
If Brisbane win this year's premiership, they arguably would be called the best team ever,

I think they are already.

 

[Dan26]

How does winning the 2004 flag make their 2003 side any better? How does winning it in 2004 make their 2002 side any better? You are as good as you in the season you win the flag.

Leigh Matthews said it right: Premierships are a singular achievement. More than one is a club achievement. It's highly doubtful whether any of the last 3 Brisbane teams would get close to the Carlton side of '95 or Essendon of 2000.

 

[TheGreatCoranzo]

Originally posted by Dan26
How does winning the 2004 flag make their 2003 side any better? How does winning it in 2004 make their 2002 side any better? You are as good as you in the season you win the flag.

Leigh Matthews said it right: Premierships are a singular achievement. More than one is a club achievement. It's highly doubtful whether any of the last 3 Brisbane teams would get close to the Carlton side of '95 or Essendon of 2000.

Just can't let it go can you?

 

[lasher]

Originally posted by Dan26
How does winning the 2004 flag make their 2003 side any better? How does winning it in 2004 make their 2002 side any better? You are as good as you in the season you win the flag.

Leigh Matthews said it right: Premierships are a singular achievement. More than one is a club achievement. It's highly doubtful whether any of the last 3 Brisbane teams would get close to the Carlton side of '95 or Essendon of 2000.

what about the hawthorn sides that made 7 grandfinals in a row..
8 grandfinals in 9 years..plus night premierships...

to make 7 in a row is a terrific effort..they may not have won them all but to get there continuously is awesome...

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by lasher
what about the hawthorn sides that made 7 grandfinals in a row..
8 grandfinals in 9 years..plus night premierships...

to make 7 in a row is a terrific effort..they may not have won them all but to get there continuously is awesome...

That's a club achievement, not a team achievement.

Even if players are much the same from year to year, they are older and at different stages of their careers. Other players come and go around them, as those players roles change.

A 4th Brisbane flag will not magically make their 2001 side any better.

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by TheGreatCoranzo
Just can't let it go can you?

let what go? I'm happy to see Brisbane win flags. I like Brisbane.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Re: Re: Whats next for Lethal.

Originally posted by skipper kelly
I think they are already.

Better than teams that had no recruiting or drafting restrictions?
unlikely surely?

 

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by Dan26
That's a club achievement, not a team achievement.

Even if players are much the same from year to year, they are older and at different stages of their careers. Other players come and go around them, as those players roles change.

A 4th Brisbane flag will not magically make their 2001 side any better.

I think that's a fair argument myself.

 

[skipper kelly]

Re: Re: Re: Whats next for Lethal.

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
Better than teams that had no recruiting or drafting restrictions?
unlikely surely?

Thats another reason why their record is amazing.

 

[tapestry]

Pre Rnd 6 2004 Challenge to Dan.

Compare the Bears team of 1995, the Lions team of 2000, then the Lions team of 2001, 2002, 2003. If you can find a minimum of 10 players the same in each team.........then your arguement is fruitless. Why? Because I said so......the same way you say yours is correct. If you can't find a group of 10 that span the period (be it in some year +1/ then not in the next)? Then you might have a point.

Dan, drop the chip on the shoulder buddy, you'll save a fortune in massage and physio fees. Essendon 2000 were an amazing unit. Salary Cap allowance would not have kept them together after GF 2001, your club had over committed and banked on veterans rules that just weren't there.

Don't denegrate greatness out of bitterness. That's a collingwood supporters job.

 

[tapestry]

Dan a 4th Flag in a row with the core group from 2001 wouldn't make them 'better', you are right...........it would however make them GREATER. It would take them up a notch. Be a core group from a team that has achieved greatness. And to do that, they would effectively have to had become 'better' over the previous 3 years.

The way the bombers were the hunted in 2001, the Lions have been the hunted in 2002 and 2003. They handled that BETTER wouldn't you say?

When you are a cut above, and everyone else strives to be like you, you have to go that extra step, be BETTER, be GREATER, to acheive the same results again and again.

The lions did it. Essendon didn't.

Essendon set the benchmark, the Lions took up the challenge, they then exceeded it, and havne't looked back yet.

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by tapestry
Pre Rnd 6 2004 Challenge to Dan.

Compare the Bears team of 1995, the Lions team of 2000, then the Lions team of 2001, 2002, 2003. If you can find a minimum of 10 players the same in each team.........then your arguement is fruitless. Why? Because I said so......the same way you say yours is correct. If you can't find a group of 10 that span the period (be it in some year +1/ then not in the next)? Then you might have a point.

The change (or lack of change) of the players is irrelevant. Players are at different stages of their careers in each season. Each year is a separate achievement. A team can't win the 2002 flag, and then claim that because of that, their 2001 team becomes magically better. Same with my own club in 1984-5. Our 1985 team was great because what they did in 1985. - they weren't great because the same club won it in '84 also.

Originally posted by tapestry
Dan, drop the chip on the shoulder buddy, you'll save a fortune in massage and physio fees.

There is no chip. I like Brisbane and I'm happy to see them win flags. I don't know what you're talking about. I also stated in my opening post that the Carlton side of 1995 was better than any of Brisbane's 3 flags sides and I hate the Blues. Hate them. I admit when a team is great, reagrdless of my own affiliation.

Originally posted by tapestry
Essendon 2000 were an amazing unit.

No sh*t. They ony lost one game and had a percentage of 160. Tell me a side who was better? There hasn't been on in recent years.

Originally posted by tapestry


Don't denegrate greatness out of bitterness. That's a collingwood supporters job.

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not denigrating anyone. I like Brisbane and I'm happy to see them win flags. The fact that I think the Carlton sde of 1995 was a great side and better than any of Brisbane's 3 sides doesn't mean I don't think Brisbane's effort is a magnificent club achievement. But none of the three individual years produced a team better than Carlton of '95 or Essendon of '00. If so, which year? I'd love to say Brisbane was better than carlton of '95 because I despise the Blues, but the fact is carlton in 1995 were one of the all-time great sides. Can we say that about Brisbane of '03? 14 wins, 3rd on the ladder? I don't think so

 

[Crow-mosone]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Whats next for Lethal.

Originally posted by skipper kelly
Thats another reason why their record is amazing.

their record is great, but that doesn't mean they were better than teams that could just go get whoever they wanted.

 

[skipper kelly]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whats next for Lethal.

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
their record is great, but that doesn't mean they were better than teams that could just go get whoever they wanted.

so what is your point?

 

[Crow-mosone]

Isn't it fair to say that in this era, it's easier for Brisbane to keep their team together (success, concessions etc), as opposed to teams that might challenge them?
I don't begrudge them an ounce of their success, but modern restrictions make it harder for your competitors to assemble a team against you. They have advantages in staying together, and good luck to them, but the even playing field dilutes the opposition if you are able to stick together.

look at Carlton in the mid eighties, and the players they added to combat the great Hawthorn teams.

 

[skipper kelly]

So what criteria do we base our best and worst in football? Is it solely statistics?

 

[Danni]

Originally posted by Dan26


No sh*t. They ony lost one game and had a percentage of 160. Tell me a side who was better? There hasn't been on in recent years.

And IMO Dan, therein lies your weakest point.

Essendon 2000 was a fantastic side, a benchmark-and-a-half side.

HOWEVER, another team took up the challenge. Infact didnt' even take up the challenge of being the benchmark, they simply used it as the mark they had to succeed. And not just succeed once, but again and again and again.

Rnd 10 2001. I'll never forget it. Lions v Bombers at the Gabba. I knew my lot had a whiff at success, but it was too much to even attempt to verbalise it. When we did win (and I probably nearly had an appolectic attack from my raised blood pressure during the game)......I was amazed that only 20secs after the siren my phone rang from someone in Adelaide (off bigfooty) congratulating me on my teams success. That was extremely quickly followed by another call from someone in Melbourne expressing the same sentitment. We (lions supporters) then went through 3 months of 'They are due for a loss" comments, from media and supporters alike. The ONE thing that really stuck in my mind then was that there was no such thing as 'due for a loss'. The same as Bombers 2000.

BUT................as Leigh Matthews is extremely fond of saying........History in football over the last years means NOTHING. It's how you played your last game that counts. the Bombers 2000 can't say much more than that the GF in 2000 was great. The Lions of 2001, 2002 and 2003 can say 3 x times how great the last game was when they started the next season.

The bombers 2000 lifted the bar. In 2001 the Lions met the challenge and lifted it higher.

IN 2002, no one matched it.
In 2003, no one matched it.

Essendon lift the bar, someone rises to the challenge.
Lions lift the bar, no one can rise to the challenge.

Better? YES. Greater? Yes.
16 Flags in 100 odd years..........Great!
3 Flags and even a wooden spoon in 7 years? Bloody fantastic!

Like it (or in your case) Lump it.........Essendon 2000 was great. Lions 2001 - present.....GREATER.