Prediction Who is Richmond's next Captain

[blackcat]

Nup. JR wasn’t anywhere near ready to lead, nor Rance.
In fact Cotch wasn’t either (just a kid), but clearly had potential.
Chappy was a good leader, as was, gulp, Morris and Ivvy

The current batch weren’t ready to lead, weren’t ready to win. Geelong went thru the same metamorphosis. No leaders then all of a sudden there are leaders on every line. Our new reality.

Coughlin the captain we never had.

They lost out when Cog's hammies and shoulders gave up the ghost, Dan Jackson was a mediocre self made AFLlisted player, Newman better than average back flanker veteran, but no better than better-than-average[sic] but they could have made a solid core, but we would not have had a defacto Philadelphia 76ers #Process and access better national draft position

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

I don't think anyone underrates him after this season.

I've been critical of his on field leadership all other past years and the reason for that was simple: he didn't play football like his life depended on it.

In the past he tried very hard, was courageous, he was an exemplary professional footballer. The 17 teams who ended last season as losers are all full of professional footballers, none more than the Crows.

Cotchin was a different beast in 2017 and I think it's probably unwise to underestimate the role criticism played in that. The criticism hurt, leading a team of laughing stock perennial losers hurt. This time around it hurt enough for him to take the talent he's always had and for the first time, truly channel that talent into the on field rage of a genuine football warrior.

He attacked the ball like never before. He refused to be beaten and his anger at the mere possibility was self evident. He played like his life depended on it and he took the vast majority of the list with him. He took players to an entirely new level of commitment through his inspiring example.

I'll be the first to admit I honestly didn't think he had that football warrior inside him. Richmond has had so few genuine football warriors since the early 80's and it's precisely why we were universally not respected throughout that enormous gap between premierships.

An issue we've now well and truly buried.

Cotchin has reset the bar back at the level which made us the greatest club in the land and may it never drop below this standard again.

There should be no doubt from 2012-2016 he followed the direction of the coaching group for slow ball movement "to get players behind the ball" and for "deeper forward entries".
It was often spoke about and didn't suit him and many others , who naturally have a attacking mindset.
Lade, Wilbur , Chocco and Smith were no good .

 

[blackcat]

There should be no doubt from 2012-2016 he followed the direction of the coaching group for slow ball movement "to get players behind the ball" and for "deeper forward entries".
It was often spoke about and didn't suit him and many others , who naturally have a attacking mindset.
Lade, Wilbur , Chocco and Smith were no good .

they did not understand mathematician John Nash's "Game Theory", which would actually say in the metaphorical sense, but only the metaphorical sense, you have to go back to go forward. ...read on

...it means that one should be willing to kick to a 40-60 chance against or a a two-on-one in the opposition's number, in servitude of fast forward ball movement, because out of one hundred occasions of fast forward ball movement, you indeed will turn it over sometimes, but you will win more-than-you-lose NB win-more-than-you-lose versus the win percentage of the Clarkson-maintain-possession-thru-kicking-precision=better-living[sic]-for-field position when we don't have Hodge, Mitchell, Breust, Gunston abilities to use the drop-punt Tom Brady quarterback style to cut up the opposition with foot. You have to play with a strategy according to your list's abilities, yet Dimma has imported the Clarko strategy whollus bolus like Neeld at Melbourne with Malthouse's Collingwood strategy.

 

[captain cotch 9]

I dont think Cotchin will still be captain when he retires.
He will be 28 next year and his 6th year as captain.
I think he will be captain for another 2 years then play his final 2-3 years free of that responsibility
That would suit Vlaustin to take over.

 

[blackcat]

I dont think Cotchin will still be captain when he retires.
He will be 28 next year and his 6th year as captain.
I think he will be captain for another 2 years then play his final 2-3 years free of that responsibility
That would suit Vlaustin to take over.

The beauty about the team's status quo, we don't need one single person to inherit the mantle, Cotch took on a Damocles Sword captaincy like Grimes and Trengove. But it ended better for Cotch. Always thought Kade Simpson was the captain Carlton needed before Mark Murphy's Damocles, but like someone accurately pointed out in this thread, we don't have access to the individual's inside-the-club-activity... we only get (i)game-day; (ii)tv media vox-pops; (iii)tv media interviews; (iv)print media interviews; (v)print media PRscripted 'specials'; (vi)print media Murdoch NewsLtd confected controversies #Miyagi; (vii) media opinion...

as I said, I like Sean Grigg and liked Dan Jackson, to go with spiritual leader Maric, and 3years ago, I would have done a Bob Simpson recruit of Dan Jackson who had been in Ontario for a year, but I have zero access to all inputs and full-information!!!

 

[Rayzorwire]

Listened to Generation Balme while drivign down to Victoria, enjoyed the Leadership one, especially the quote "Introverts can be great leaders as when they talk, you know what they're saying is important"

Couldn't agree more. There's been a fair bit said about Martin to that effect from numerous people at the club and it's exactly what I had in mind when I suggested he may well be our best candidate down the track.

 

[Rayzorwire]

I think...for whatever reason...Cotch as captain was a tad too young/close to Dimma to do his own thing...
I think just like all his team mates...they tried to follow through with what dimma wanted...which really was a mess in 2016...
He did the team thing without imposing himself on the game or opposition players..
The Book...Yellow and Black..alludes to it...

Definitely agree the infinitely more positive game plan helped. As I pointed out ad nauseum in years past, a game plan which puts winning contests front and centre means a mistake lasts only until you (or the teammates who have your back) double down and win the next contest. A slow, precision kicking, retaining possession game plan amplifies mistakes (all week in reviews too no doubt with the 2016 Richmond) and saps confidence. It's a very poor way to develop the vast majority of players.

I'm sure the change helped Cotchin significantly.

I do, however, still think his own development mentally was the most important factor in his magnificent finals series. We had a handful of blokes who played like their life depended on it -Jackson, Tuck, King, Morris, Maric - through those same lost Hardwick years where Cotchin quite simply didn't.

He had more talent than all of them combined, but each of them had him well and truly covered in terms of giving absolutely everything they had to give.

 

[Rayzorwire]

There should be no doubt from 2012-2016 he followed the direction of the coaching group for slow ball movement "to get players behind the ball" and for "deeper forward entries".
It was often spoke about and didn't suit him and many others , who naturally have a attacking mindset.
Lade, Wilbur , Chocco and Smith were no good .

Just to reinforce my point regarding his change in mindset being the key difference, regardless of game plan, Cotchin was still in past seasons given every opportunity to shine in the centre square and at stoppages. These elements of football are largely independent of game plan. Sometimes he did shine, sometimes - especially finals - he was anonymous.

The Cotchin of 2017 - especially finals - refused to be anonymous and did absolutely everything to dictate the terms of the contests he was involved in.

As for the coaching side, it was Hardwick's plan from day one and aside from Chocco, AFAIK they were his hand picked lieutenants to carry out his plan. And Chocco got banished to the boundary I presume at Hardwick's insistence.

I'm sure there's a hundred twists and subtleties in the assistant coach's tale and it's no doubt wrong of me or anyone to blithely assume or summarise, but I just can't buy the line that the assistants were the major problem with the game plan.

To me, the Hardwick of 2016 was the same delusional football 'thinker' that had absolutely no place for Shane Tuck style footballers in 2010. I think that he has gradually, in increments, been forced to acknowledge (at least to himself) that he was utterly wrong about that.

That big bodied, physically aggressive mids are gold. That chaos balls inside-50 are gold because they're impossible to plan to defend against and rich pickings for good forwards who read the play and the ball in flight better than their opponents.

That winning more contests is gold, bruising the opposition back into their shells is gold, getting the ball forward any way you can and holding it there is gold.

Shane Tuck style football was undoubtedly the template for our flag many years ago. I would contend that Hardwick had to be - intellectually speaking - dragged kicking and screaming to the point where he finally understands that.

I'm still not 100% certain he does understand, that he won't take what we've achieved with the style of 2017 and start tweaking it with all his past ideas of football as some kind of beautifully executed and choreographed ballet.

We'll find out in the coming year(s).

 

[blackcat]

Just to reinforce my point regarding his change in mindset being the key difference, regardless of game plan, Cotchin was still in past seasons given every opportunity to shine in the centre square and at stoppages. These elements of football are largely independent of game plan. Sometimes he did shine, sometimes - especially finals - he was anonymous.

The Cotchin of 2017 - especially finals - refused to be anonymous and did absolutely everything to dictate the terms of the contests he was involved in.

As for the coaching side, it was Hardwick's plan from day one and aside from Chocco, AFAIK they were his hand picked lieutenants to carry out his plan. And Chocco got banished to the boundary I presume at Hardwick's insistence.

I'm sure there's a hundred twists and subtleties in the assistant coach's tale and it's no doubt wrong of me or anyone to blithely assume or summarise, but I just can't buy the line that the assistants were the major problem with the game plan.

To me, the Hardwick of 2016 was the same delusional football 'thinker' that had absolutely no place for Shane Tuck style footballers in 2010. I think that he has gradually, in increments, been forced to acknowledge (at least to himself) that he was utterly wrong about that.

That big bodied, physically aggressive mids are gold. That chaos balls inside-50 are gold because they're impossible to plan to defend against and rich pickings for good forwards who read the play and the ball in flight better than their opponents.

That winning more contests is gold, bruising the opposition back into their shells is gold, getting the ball forward any way you can and holding it there is gold.

Shane Tuck style football was undoubtedly the template for our flag many years ago. I would contend that Hardwick had to be - intellectually speaking - dragged kicking and screaming to the point where he finally understands that.

I'm still not 100% certain he does understand, that he won't take what we've achieved with the style of 2017 and start tweaking it with all his past ideas of football as some kind of beautifully executed and choreographed ballet.

We'll find out in the coming year(s).

good post, especially the 'choreographed ballet' line. AFL coaches for the most part only see determinables and an exact science. Not random variables, uncontrollables[sic] and risk management.
Beveridge's floating 28 of/for his starting22 with deep injury list in 2016 meant a rotation of 35, and a positive tension in the magoos for a spot in AFLsaturday22. But this was gonna blowback when the 2016 list needed to be re-contracted for 2017 and players and their player management put focus on thought about 2017. He made a rod for his own back, the 'positive-tension', competitive tension, morphs to ennui. Dimma won a flag, but he is yet to disabuse me of my opinion of his bank-teller mind.

 

[Livonski]

Oh FFS!
Shane Tuck
Bank teller
Still not convinced...
NFI. And refuse to concede the obvious.
It still must hurt.

 

[FootyFan17]

I'd like to see Vlastuin show us what he can do as a midfielder sometime soon.
Was slated for a move this year but didn't happen.
But he seems to have the best leadership credentials of the younger brigade.

 

[captain cotch 9]

The captain ideally plays through the midfield or across the CHB line.

 

[THE_GUN]

I would also love to see Vlastuin & Caddy have more midfield time both are the bigger bodied types in our side, But thats going to be dependent on the likes of Menadue,Markov,Naish being able to take the roles that Vlastuin/Caddy currently play

DEPTH.

Ohh this was about captain - Just give it to Jack

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

I'd like to see Vlastuin show us what he can do as a midfielder sometime soon.
Was slated for a move this year but didn't happen.
But he seems to have the best leadership credentials of the younger brigade.

I seem to remember him being put in the midfield and having mimimal impact. Went back and dominated. My feeling is leave him there now. Develop him into the Hodge style lieutenant back there. I'd be looking to develop a few of the small fowards for midfield time.

How's Higgins' tank...anyone know his yoyo result at the combine or midfield time in the champs?

 

[Socrates2]

I seem to remember him being put in the midfield and having mimimal impact. Went back and dominated. My feeling is leave him there now. Develop him into the Hodge style lieutenant back there. I'd be looking to develop a few of the small fowards for midfield time.

How's Higgins' tank...anyone know his yoyo result at the combine or midfield time in the champs?

He needs to improve endurance and speed a little.
12 Jack Higgins
Small Forward/Inside Midfielder (Oakleigh Chargers/Vic Metro)
19/03/1999 | 177.8cm | 76.9kg

Scouting notes: Small midfielder who wins a lot of the ball and has now moved into a small forward role post the NAB AFL Under 18 Championships. His defensive efforts are getting better and the midfielder has the ability to push forward and hit the scoreboard. His clearance work is great and he has goal smarts as a small forward, but he does lack a touch of speed compared to other small forwards. Very good contested mark for a player sub 180cm. Should be ready to go in 2018, but his full on focus on AFL in 2017, might mean he has a limited upside compared with other first rounders.

Strengths: Goal sense, Footy IQ, quick hands, contested marking
Improvements: Speed, hurt factor with disposal

Combine test results: 20m Sprint (secs) – 3.10 | Agility (secs) – 8.45 | Yo-Yo Test (level) – 21.3

2017 AFL DRAFT PROFILE: JACK HIGGINS

 

[Dr Tigris]

I'm a late comer to this thread. But Dan Rioli is a good shot to me. He's a very mature leader already. fantastic ability and getting better.

He's so young, but already in the right space at the club. Give Cotch another 3/4 years and Dan is 24/25. Great age to take the reins.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Just to reinforce my point regarding his change in mindset being the key difference, regardless of game plan, Cotchin was still in past seasons given every opportunity to shine in the centre square and at stoppages. These elements of football are largely independent of game plan. Sometimes he did shine, sometimes - especially finals - he was anonymous.

The Cotchin of 2017 - especially finals - refused to be anonymous and did absolutely everything to dictate the terms of the contests he was involved in.

As for the coaching side, it was Hardwick's plan from day one and aside from Chocco, AFAIK they were his hand picked lieutenants to carry out his plan. And Chocco got banished to the boundary I presume at Hardwick's insistence.

I'm sure there's a hundred twists and subtleties in the assistant coach's tale and it's no doubt wrong of me or anyone to blithely assume or summarise, but I just can't buy the line that the assistants were the major problem with the game plan.

To me, the Hardwick of 2016 was the same delusional football 'thinker' that had absolutely no place for Shane Tuck style footballers in 2010. I think that he has gradually, in increments, been forced to acknowledge (at least to himself) that he was utterly wrong about that.

That big bodied, physically aggressive mids are gold. That chaos balls inside-50 are gold because they're impossible to plan to defend against and rich pickings for good forwards who read the play and the ball in flight better than their opponents.

That winning more contests is gold, bruising the opposition back into their shells is gold, getting the ball forward any way you can and holding it there is gold.

Shane Tuck style football was undoubtedly the template for our flag many years ago. I would contend that Hardwick had to be - intellectually speaking - dragged kicking and screaming to the point where he finally understands that.

I'm still not 100% certain he does understand, that he won't take what we've achieved with the style of 2017 and start tweaking it with all his past ideas of football as some kind of beautifully executed and choreographed ballet.

We'll find out in the coming year(s).

tldr;

 

[Rayzorwire]

Oh FFS!
Shane Tuck
Bank teller
Still not convinced...

Well spotted, Liv!

Definitely reads like 'fake news' to me.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Been thinking about Kane Lambert in a leadership role
If we continue to have the 3 player leadership group I think he would be a great VC option for the club

One of the hardest workers at the club and understands the value of playing a role for the greater good of the club
Always has trained his ass off in pre seasons and has never been gifted games
Not saying he should be our captain but I think he would be a great Vice after Jack or Rance want to take a step back

In the same vain I think Dylan Grimes and Dan Rioli would also be great candidates for leadership roles

Not necessarily the best players in the team but players who display those core values that you would want all the players to play with

 

[Rimmer]

hmm, chances are he is not at our club yet. I reckon the current captain is a lock for at least the next 3 years. Cotch truly arrived as a Captain in 2017.

We have a plethora of leaders now, a luxury we did not have just a few years back. The All Australian Captain comes to mind.

My feeling is that all of the current team wants to play for Cotch and unless he decides its time then, like Nick Rewoldt, he has the seat until he wants to vacate it.

 

[THE_GUN]

I dont like this new fad about captains retiring their captaincy early and playing 2-3-4 years after they have relinquished it

Maybe 1 year prior then retire imo , Cotchin is 27 and should be captain for another 4-5 years

 

[THE THIN MAN]

Captain Kirk

 

[Tigerpagz]

I'm a late comer to this thread. But Dan Rioli is a good shot to me. He's a very mature leader already. fantastic ability and getting better.

He's so young, but already in the right space at the club. Give Cotch another 3/4 years and Dan is 24/25. Great age to take the reins.

X2 - Lives with Dimma and already plays a leadership role with some of the younger indigenous boys (Bolton/stengle)

Being a Rioli, to an extent he would have grown up with scrutiny and expectation and he's handled it all perfectly.

Would be in the right age bracket when Cotch either steps aside or retires and already wears the 17.

Someone else mentioned Lambert being pushed into the leadership group which I reckon is a great thought

 

[Socrates2]

X2 - Lives with Dimma and already plays a leadership role with some of the younger indigenous boys (Bolton/stengle)

Being a Rioli, to an extent he would have grown up with scrutiny and expectation and he's handled it all perfectly.

Would be in the right age bracket when Cotch either steps aside or retires and already wears the 17.

Someone else mentioned Lambert being pushed into the leadership group which I reckon is a great thought

I just hope they've fixed his foot properly and that he doesn't lose any speed.

 

[Dr Tigris]

I just hope they've fixed his foot properly and that he doesn't lose any speed.

I'd hope they will be very careful with Dan's foot. we need him come finals, and for the decade + after. He has the ability to become a genuine AFL A+ star. Look after very carefully.