Who was at fault?

[perthblue]

Warning: video contains helmet-cam footage of a fatal accident. There is no graphic imagery but it might be disturbing to some people.


Now the facts of this particular case:

- David Holmes, 38, was travelling in his motorbike doing 97mph (~156kph) which is well over the 60mph (~96kph) limit on this particular stretch of road.
- Benjamin Austin, 29, was travelling in the opposite direction in a car and turning right across Holmes' lane
- Holmes struck the front end of Austin's car, was flung into a nearby hedgerow, and died at the scene
- Austin admitted in court that he had simply not seen Holmes, and plead guilty to causing death by careless driving
- The maximum punishment for this is 5 years prison, however Austin had his licence cancelled and was sentenced to community service

 

[ToddaRools]

Shocking footage, but I’m going to have to say the rider was at fault. The roads not a race track for thrills, how was the driver expected to anticipate someone flying along and virtually coming out of nowhere.

 

[norway blue]

Horrible footage. Car technically in the wrong but rider crazy fast . No defensive riding here.


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[CheapCharlie]

nasty stuff, but the rider has to be responsible for his speed. You dont expect a bike or car coming toward u at 156km in a 60 zone

 

[tryitout]

The angle that the car is turning in at suggests to me that they'd cut that corner or hadn't slowed down as much as they should have before turning.

The motorcyclist didn't help themselves but if they had been travelling at the speed limit would still be dead or at least paralysed. The road was dead straight so am not sure how he wasn't seen, 150 km/h isn't blurringly fast.

If I was to give a percentage of blame I would go 75% car, 25% motorcyclist.

 

[edgie]

In what way couldn't it have been the motorbike?

 

[perthblue]

In what way couldn't it have been the motorbike?

The driver of the car admitted he didn't see the motorbike. Drivers behind the car said that they could see the bike approaching clearly. It is possible that the driver just glanced before turning and was unable to properly assess speed and distance of oncoming vehicles.

 

[Craven Morehead]

If he didn't die in that accident it was only a matter of time before he did in another. Lucky there wasn't a pedestrian on the side of the road.
See so many temporary Aussies on bikes. But hey, it's the car/truck drivers fault.
If you want to do 100mph on a bike, do it at a drag strip.

 

[tryitout]

In what way couldn't it have been the motorbike?

The fact the car turned into the path of oncoming traffic attributes the share of blame to them. If the bike was doing 150 around a corner then fair enough. The road was straight and the bike visible.

 

[Power Raid]

The driver definitely failed to give way and thus in the wrong. The punishment is about right though given the mitigating circumstances.

The biker was definitely in the wrong for going so fast and the time between "no and impact" highlighted he had chance. It's a massive price to pay for speeding and failing to consider "defensive riding". Sadly too many motorcyclists and drivers feel the road is a play ground and it isn't until you see outcomes like this, that we all reflect on our road behaviour. How many times could either of these drivers been us?

 

[Scotland]

If I was to give a percentage of blame I would go 75% car, 25% motorcyclist.

I'd go 25% car, 75% bike.

The difference in speed from 60 to 97 m/h accounts for an extra ~16 m/s.

Looking at the footage the bike should have been visible from about 2:50 and the collision occurred at 2:54. That's an extra 65m of distance from where the bike should have been if the rider was doing the speed limit compared to where the bike was.

 

[tryitout]

I'd go 25% car, 75% bike.

The difference in speed from 60 to 97 m/h accounts for an extra ~16 m/s.

Looking at the footage the bike should have been visible from about 2:50 and the collision occurred at 2:54. That's an extra 65m of distance from where the bike should have been if the rider was doing the speed limit compared to where the bike was.

Hypothetical can't really come into the judgement by the courts though.

 

[Scotland]

Hypothetical can't really come into the judgement by the courts though.

True, but excessive speed was a major contributing factor. The driver argued he didn't see the bike anyway, so they can't have argued he just got his distance vs time calculation wrong.

Power Raid summed it up pretty well. Car driver technically in the wrong but the mitigating circumstances mean the punishment is about right.

 

[tryitout]

True, but excessive speed was a major contributing factor. The driver argued he didn't see the bike anyway, so they can't have argued he just got his distance vs time calculation wrong.

Power Raid summed it up pretty well. Car driver technically in the wrong but the mitigating circumstances mean the punishment is about right.

The cars behind the guy that hit the bike say the clearly saw the bike approaching though. Whether he didn't see it through inattention or maybe he couldn't differentiate the bike from the trees only he would know I guess.

 

[perthblue]

The driver definitely failed to give way and thus in the wrong. The punishment is about right though given the mitigating circumstances.

The biker was definitely in the wrong for going so fast and the time between "no and impact" highlighted he had chance. It's a massive price to pay for speeding and failing to consider "defensive riding". Sadly too many motorcyclists and drivers feel the road is a play ground and it isn't until you see outcomes like this, that we all reflect on our road behaviour. How many times could either of these drivers been us?

I think lots of us have been guilty of pushing the limits of safety and road rules when behind the wheel, either due to carelessness or frustration or impatience. But seeing videos like this is a reminder that it only takes a simple mistake, a simple moment of absentmindedness, a simple decision to speed, for something disastrous to happen. I think lots of time people drive with their minds on auto-pilot or are distracted by conversation with passengers, and are slow to react to something unexpected.

Mr Austin had been driving for 12 years with a clean record and probably fancied himself as an upstanding motorist. One simple mistake and his life has dramatically changed. Same for Mr Holmes, his mother said he liked to go fast and it probably is far from the first time he has roared down that highway. Yet on that day the fates colluded and one man lost his life and another has to navigate his with a heavy conscience.

Slow down and pay attention everyone!

 

[Power Raid]

I think lots of us have been guilty of pushing the limits of safety and road rules when behind the wheel, either due to carelessness or frustration or impatience. But seeing videos like this is a reminder that it only takes a simple mistake, a simple moment of absentmindedness, a simple decision to speed, for something disastrous to happen. I think lots of time people drive with their minds on auto-pilot or are distracted by conversation with passengers, and are slow to react to something unexpected.

Mr Austin had been driving for 12 years with a clean record and probably fancied himself as an upstanding motorist. One simple mistake and his life has dramatically changed. Same for Mr Holmes, his mother said he liked to go fast and it probably is far from the first time he has roared down that highway. Yet on that day the fates colluded and one man lost his life and another has to navigate his with a heavy conscience.

Slow down and pay attention everyone!

and I put my hand up as guilty. On reflection, I was lucky not to have hurt others or myself with some of the risks or decisions taken.

drive safe and take a breath before making impulsive decisions

 

[Plugger35]

If the motorbike rider wanted to ride like he was Valentino Rossi he should've done it late at night on a deserted road, not during the day with traffic around.

You could argue the car driver should've seen him but at the speed the motorbike rider was going it left no margin for error so he was more to blame imo.

I sometimes exceed the speed limit but by no more than 10kph, exceeding it by 60kph is just asking for trouble.

 

[Power Raid]

If the motorbike rider wanted to ride like he was Valentino Rossi he should've done it late at night on a deserted road, not during the day with traffic around.

You could argue the car driver should've seen him but at the speed the motorbike rider was going it left no margin for error so he was more to blame imo.

I sometimes exceed the speed limit but by no more than 10kph, exceeding it by 60kph is just asking for trouble.

A business associate had a son and friend doing 160-200km/hr in a 100 zone on a freeway. The road was almost empty with just a truck in the left lane ahead. Unfortunately for them, there was a car just in front of the truck which they couldn't see.

The car moved into the right hand lane, leaving the motorcyclists nowhere to go. The son managed to pull further to the right and pass with the narrowest of margins and the friend slammed into the back of the car and like a missile, flew over the car.


Some drivers don't look for bikes and almost none of us, check our blind spot for vehicles at that speed.

Sadly there is always a fresh generation of men coming through, testing limits, not appreciating others on the road make mistakes and having right of way means one doesn't need to take care.

 

[peternorth]

Like Alien vs Predator

no one wins

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Holy shit.

Can't put a percentage split, but gotta be the bike.

 

[Macca19]

100% the bike riders fault. Drive like a dick, get what you deserve.

 

[Jobe Watson]

I have no sympathy for riders who complain about cars not paying attention to them while they ride around going 20kms over the limit and take off like a rocket from every red light. Surely if you're a rider you should make doubly sure not to do anything dangerous on the road because you'll always be the one coming off second best.

 

[Agent93]

The cars behind the guy that hit the bike say the clearly saw the bike approaching though. Whether he didn't see it through inattention or maybe he couldn't differentiate the bike from the trees only he would know I guess.

Given the speed there'd likely be a difference in road position where the cars behind noticed the bike.

Looking at the footage the bike should have been visible from about 2:50 and the collision occurred at 2:54

At 2:50, I reckon line of sight has the bike in line with the car it had just passed from the view of the car in the collision. This would have made it harder to pick up.

The angle that the car is turning in at suggests to me that they'd cut that corner or hadn't slowed down as much as they should have before turning.

Looking at the road markings of the entry to the other road, I don't think they would cut it, however the road is marked to allow a very shallow entry angle. Stick that island out a little more and the car turning right has to slow a lot more to steepen the turn angle or they'd hit the curbing. In this case it probably would have saved a life.

 

[norway blue]

I have no sympathy for riders who complain about cars not paying attention to them while they ride around going 20kms over the limit and take off like a rocket from every red light. Surely if you're a rider you should make doubly sure not to do anything dangerous on the road because you'll always be the one coming off second best.

It’s more the onus of the mc rider to ride defensively. Wrong part of the road to be speeding . If you want to scrape pegs you pick your spot out of the city .


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[Mr X]

The motorist made an everyday, could and does happen to everyone error in judgement. He has to live with that rhe rest of his life.

How does that not become a fatality? By not doing an absolutely stupid speed. That bikie doing maybe only over 10kms the limit, one or both of them have time to appropriately react and reaspind to likely escape that devastating outcome.

I understand the mother is grief stricken, but the mother advising motorists to slow down and take care when turning off the bat is a little rich.