Thrawn
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Maybe you could aissassinate me?
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Why Chris Judd Should/Shouldn't Be Captain
- Thread starter Beloved
- Start date
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Maybe you could aissassinate me?
thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #27
Nah, he has bigger fish to fry. And full marks for his Audasity.
I'm not sure what arguably the competition's best player has to prove to the competition's biggest basket case of recent years. Whilst I'd have no issues with Stevo being appointed captain, he has admitted to being unprofessional in match preperation in the past, while Judd has been immaculate in that regard, both out west and in his time at Carlton. My preferred choice would be Stevo and Judd co-captains, OR one of Judd, Stevens and Simpson as solitary captain.
Just let the players decide who they want as captain and be done with it.
Just let the players decide who they want as captain and be done with it.
blue gunslinger
Hall of Famer
The Beatles
Paul was the captain but we all know John was the brains and heart of the band.
George calmed everyone down and got the guru thing going on
Ringo was just mad
As individuals they were amazing people but collectively they were the band we all know.
Judd can be the Paul for sponsors and tossing the coin but the players have known Stevo and Simmo for a long time so in the huddles those 2 will be John..the heart and mind.
Calmness - I am thinking Carazzo can be George
Madness - Setanta can be Ringo
But as long as they all come together and play as a band I don't care who tosses the coin CAN WE JUST WIN for a change PLEASE!
Paul was the captain but we all know John was the brains and heart of the band.
George calmed everyone down and got the guru thing going on
Ringo was just mad
As individuals they were amazing people but collectively they were the band we all know.
Judd can be the Paul for sponsors and tossing the coin but the players have known Stevo and Simmo for a long time so in the huddles those 2 will be John..the heart and mind.
Calmness - I am thinking Carazzo can be George
Madness - Setanta can be Ringo
But as long as they all come together and play as a band I don't care who tosses the coin CAN WE JUST WIN for a change PLEASE!
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I think Chris Judd should be captain because if the boys look up to him and follow him, and he has emerged as the natural leader at the club, then he should be captain, regardless of not having played a game for us before. He's proven he is a good captain, so if he's the bloke our boys want as captain and who they naturally follow and look up to, why shouldn't he be captain? The captain is the bloke everybody looks up to and follows, it's pretty much based on how he interacts with our playing group that decides who is appointed captain, and if our group have naturally placed Judd as their leader, he should be captain
All this is of course assuming that Judd wants it, and he has infact emerged as the natural leader for our kids (which i believe he has)
All this is of course assuming that Judd wants it, and he has infact emerged as the natural leader for our kids (which i believe he has)
Just in saying that...as I stated before...... if the boys are FOLLOWING HIM....it is not actually him LEADING THEM!
yes, he is a fantastic player & he was a fantastic Leader all be it at another club...... but how long was he playing with that club b4 he was captain? How well did he know the club & Players before he was captain?
Honestly not even I know the answers to those questions I asked but I am pretty sure he was not made captain of WCE as soon as he joined them
lol you don't follow a dunce. it's like following the leader, there has to be a leader for someone to follow. the boys follow him because he leads them. i dont give a shit about his past, if he's the bloke our kids want as captain and who they look up to, he should be captain IMHO
There are no reasons against, only reasons for Judd being Captain. It's just a question as to whether Judds positives outweigh Stevens positives. Ultimately it doesn't matter to much, but I think the match committee will choose Stevens. It's a win-win situation for us regardless of what happens. Have been very impressed with how Ratten has dealt with the leadership and captaincy issue. Being appointed captain of the most successful Club in the competition is a huge honour, and so the process is important.
blue gunslinger
Hall of Famer
Almost every player is recovering from some sort of injury at this stage of the year, so that's not a factor IMO. He has demonstrated he can lead, and practically carried the Weagles in 2006 to a flag. Pressure just doesn't bother this guy. Thought Simmo was awesome last year as captain. A real surprise, and it's great that this has been acknowledged by his appointment to the leadership group. Having said all this I'd probably prefer Stevens for no other reason than he's been around longer, but would be happy if either Stevens or Judd got the job. Both are excellent candidates. We can't lose.
Beloved
Brownlow Medallist
- Thread starter
- #36
That's the thing, he carried West Coast, a whole different line-up. West Coast were by far a better team that us in 2006, and i'd go out and say that their 2006 list is better than our current side, at the moment. It would be very optimistic to beleive that he will repeat the results of 2006.Almost every player is recovering from some sort of injury at this stage of the year, so that's not a factor IMO. He has demonstrated he can lead, and practically carried the Weagles in 2006 to a flag. Pressure just doesn't bother this guy. Thought Simmo was awesome last year as captain. A real surprise, and it's great that this has been acknowledged by his appointment to the leadership group. Having said all this I'd probably prefer Stevens for no other reason than he's been around longer, but would be happy if either Stevens or Judd got the job. Both are excellent candidates. We can't lose.
I think when Judd plays in the NAB Cup, in which he should, we will have our answer.
I think trueblue's right. Judd 'seems' to be just doing his thing and the youngies are just in awe and will follow suit. Don't get me wrong, that's not a bad thing because he's a great role model.
But at the same time, let the guy play footy. He's said it so many times that he just wants to play and alluded he doesn't want it so let the man play. Give it to Stevo and finish this conversation. As I said earlier Judd can still 'lead' without the title and press conferences.
Forgive the intrusion, but this seems intriguing...
Should - the best player in the competition, ridiculously decorated for a player of his age, great example to the players due to his impeccable off-field credentials to go with his obvious on-field abilities, already has senior leadership experience (as a premiership captain no less).
Shouldn't - he's a newbie.
FWIW I think it wouldn't be a bad move to make him captain, he brings to the table everything that any team would need in a captain (professionalism, talent, ability to perform at his best under pressure)...and the fact that his career has been full of success in every facet gives him exactly what you specifically need the most - a winning mentality.
People can say that when he as at the Eagles he was only a pseudo-captain (Cousins being the "real" skipper) and he wasn't really an effective on-field leader, but the situations are vastly different. At the Eagles he had to work his way up from a rookie and Cousins was already far ahead of him in the pecking order, but at Carlton everyone there clearly reveres him already...and as far as I know there isn't already someone at the Blues who is a clear-cut "destined to be captain"-type like Cousins was at the Eagles (correct me if I'm wrong).
And besides - if someone else was made captain, do you think he would feel comfortable ordering around the mighty Chris Judd?
Should - the best player in the competition, ridiculously decorated for a player of his age, great example to the players due to his impeccable off-field credentials to go with his obvious on-field abilities, already has senior leadership experience (as a premiership captain no less).
Shouldn't - he's a newbie.
FWIW I think it wouldn't be a bad move to make him captain, he brings to the table everything that any team would need in a captain (professionalism, talent, ability to perform at his best under pressure)...and the fact that his career has been full of success in every facet gives him exactly what you specifically need the most - a winning mentality.
People can say that when he as at the Eagles he was only a pseudo-captain (Cousins being the "real" skipper) and he wasn't really an effective on-field leader, but the situations are vastly different. At the Eagles he had to work his way up from a rookie and Cousins was already far ahead of him in the pecking order, but at Carlton everyone there clearly reveres him already...and as far as I know there isn't already someone at the Blues who is a clear-cut "destined to be captain"-type like Cousins was at the Eagles (correct me if I'm wrong).
And besides - if someone else was made captain, do you think he would feel comfortable ordering around the mighty Chris Judd?
he didnt carry us, he played well like a lot of our blokes to win the 06 flag....but to say he carried the team is crap and its some very blue tinted glasses your wearing parrot and eddie if you really believe that.
Tough choice this one.
On one hand no one should walk into a new club and captain for a number of reasons. Clubs and players represent a closed social circle of respect. Bringing in an outsider to be captain:
1) Shows a lack of respect to the current group (Stevens will be miffed no doubt)
2) Puts pressure on the new player - even Judd...speaking socially here. Judd is a quiet guy who leads by doing. He is not an orator!
3) Stevens has done enough to get the gig and the captaincy would keep him driven towards Carlton and personal success. Judd will be successful regardless.
On the other hand, if we dont appoint Judd captain we are left with the scenario of a captain (Stevens/Simpson) living in Judd's shadow as all the young players will follow Judd as the role model. This will to some extent undermine Stevens/Simpson even though it is not done on purpose! Can anyone envision Judd as vice captain to Simpson or Stevens - not me!
So we are left with a grey area...
My final vote goes for Stevens and appt the rest of the group as VCs equally. Steven's is vocal on field, deserves it, has organized the midfield, and been loyal since he landed at the Blues. It is also just the right thing for Stevo to take on and work hard for the Blues. Judd is quiet vocally but a leader nonetheless, should be the role model work ethic wise.
On one hand no one should walk into a new club and captain for a number of reasons. Clubs and players represent a closed social circle of respect. Bringing in an outsider to be captain:
1) Shows a lack of respect to the current group (Stevens will be miffed no doubt)
2) Puts pressure on the new player - even Judd...speaking socially here. Judd is a quiet guy who leads by doing. He is not an orator!
3) Stevens has done enough to get the gig and the captaincy would keep him driven towards Carlton and personal success. Judd will be successful regardless.
On the other hand, if we dont appoint Judd captain we are left with the scenario of a captain (Stevens/Simpson) living in Judd's shadow as all the young players will follow Judd as the role model. This will to some extent undermine Stevens/Simpson even though it is not done on purpose! Can anyone envision Judd as vice captain to Simpson or Stevens - not me!
So we are left with a grey area...
My final vote goes for Stevens and appt the rest of the group as VCs equally. Steven's is vocal on field, deserves it, has organized the midfield, and been loyal since he landed at the Blues. It is also just the right thing for Stevo to take on and work hard for the Blues. Judd is quiet vocally but a leader nonetheless, should be the role model work ethic wise.
No Brainer.
Chris Judd is a certainty.
The best player in the comp,one of the most respected and already a Premiership captain.
Someone mentioned earlier the example of Kernahan having to do a year in the guernsey first before getting the captaincy. Totally different. He was an untried AFL player, unlike Judd. Carlton then had a champion of the club as captain, Johnno. Now we don't.
With the retirements of Hird,Archer and Buckley, Victoria is looking for a new "trusted,iconic voice of football". Judd can be this.
Judd is the new Carlton and will lead them to new heights of respect again.
He will be the most respected skipper in Melbourne.
Judd (c)
Simpson Stevens (vc's)
Fevola Carrazzo Scotland (dvc's)
Chris Judd is a certainty.
The best player in the comp,one of the most respected and already a Premiership captain.
Someone mentioned earlier the example of Kernahan having to do a year in the guernsey first before getting the captaincy. Totally different. He was an untried AFL player, unlike Judd. Carlton then had a champion of the club as captain, Johnno. Now we don't.
With the retirements of Hird,Archer and Buckley, Victoria is looking for a new "trusted,iconic voice of football". Judd can be this.
Judd is the new Carlton and will lead them to new heights of respect again.
He will be the most respected skipper in Melbourne.
Judd (c)
Simpson Stevens (vc's)
Fevola Carrazzo Scotland (dvc's)
thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #42
yes
Okay, now this debate is spread out all over the place across the Carlton board, so I figured i'd bring it all into the one thread.
The idea here is to put forward why you beleive Chris Judd should and/or should not be captain for our club next year.
I beleive Chris Judd should be captain for us next year because he's got the experience of a captain, so he knows how do handle with the pressure of leading a club. He's won countless awards and is not afraid of putting in the hard yards.
I beleive Chris Judd should not be captain because he has come from another team and is yet to even play a game for Carlton yet, so we have no idea where he's at after his groin surgery and how he will perform at a new club with different players to those at WC.
BlueYoss
Norm Smith Medallist
Did all those who say that CJ can't be appointed captain simply because he hasn't accomplished anything on field for Carlton also think that Richard Pratt could not have been president because at the time of his appointment he had not yet accomplished anything for Carlton but only other businesses and that the president should have been chosed from someone who was already on the board and proven themselves at Carlton?
Or could it be that when the very best is available you overlook convention and sieze the opportunity?
Either way this debate is irrelvant: Ratten said last week that the captain will not be appointed until after the NAB Cup and that Judd will play in the NAB Cup. So IF Judd is appointed captain then it will be after he has already played games for Carlton.
Or could it be that when the very best is available you overlook convention and sieze the opportunity?
Either way this debate is irrelvant: Ratten said last week that the captain will not be appointed until after the NAB Cup and that Judd will play in the NAB Cup. So IF Judd is appointed captain then it will be after he has already played games for Carlton.
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thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #45
Good argument although it must be said DP was already a Carlton man through and through.
Obviously seeing as this is very much a matter of opinion there are going to be a lot of different views and reasons supporting them, but as long as Juddy actually wants to do it and gets a majority vote from his teammates then the two major reasons against him being Captain are dealt with.
You'd have to think he'd be able to cope with any added pressure associated with being captain.
If he gets a majority vote of support from teammates then the potential resentment issue's dealt with.
Yes Sticks played a year for the Blues first, but I don't think Barassi did (correct me if i'm wrong).
The guy has set new standards in a range of things from his approach to training to what he eats. He is a PROVEN successful leader. We don't have another one of those in our ranks.
He is an obvious choice IF he wants it and is voted in by the rest of the boys.
Go Juddy you GUN.
You'd have to think he'd be able to cope with any added pressure associated with being captain.
If he gets a majority vote of support from teammates then the potential resentment issue's dealt with.
Yes Sticks played a year for the Blues first, but I don't think Barassi did (correct me if i'm wrong).
The guy has set new standards in a range of things from his approach to training to what he eats. He is a PROVEN successful leader. We don't have another one of those in our ranks.
He is an obvious choice IF he wants it and is voted in by the rest of the boys.
Go Juddy you GUN.
BlueYoss
Norm Smith Medallist
True, but what had he done for Carlton as a board member? (Just like the question being asked 'What has Judd done for Carlton on the field?')
Somewhat weak argument. Yes, running a club is similar to running a business. In the business world, mgmt changes hands all the time so sets a standard of expectation - so yes, it is acceptable to come in (sometimes with no history) and run a club.
A football team however is different, there is a culture in most sports, most of the time, to reward players from within your own team with the captaincy. Reward players who have bled for the club, reward players who have helped nurture young players, shown loyalty etc etc. Overlooking these traits from within your own club puts team harmony at risk. Pinging Judd for captain flouts Steven's leadership over the last 2 years. This could lead to some of the Carlton players thinking Judd hasnt earnt the Carlton captaincy...something that over the years is an incredible privilege!!
Scenario
Judd made captain in preference to Nick Stevens. Judd doesnt recover from injury or suffers recurrence. Judd suffers not being able to lead, and so to does Nick who was overlooked for captaincy but then fills in. My point is, Judd needs to play for year as there is a doubt on him plus he has no history.
I would call this a weaker argument. If you know anything about business, you would know that in today's world, the culture of a business is VERY important. People are assigned regularly to ensure there is a good culture and attitude within the workplace. Everything you said about the football team can apply back to a business. Many people think that promotions (aka the captaincy in footy), should only go to workers who have been at the business for a long time. A lot of people have issues with businesses poaching blokes from other businesses and putting them straight into a leading position (an example of this is John O'Neil leaving rugby to become CEO of Football Australia and doing a superb job). Some believe that blokes who have "bled" for the business, and worked there ass off there for many years, deserve the promotion. The fact is though, this often isn't the case, and often a bloke coming into the business can have a lot of success as their obviously highly regarded, and they can also offer fresh ideas (this could occur with Judd being captain, as he can offer a fresh side of things to our club). Pretty much, there are many similarities between the Judd issue and how leaders are appointed in businesses
And in regards to your statement that Judd needs to play for a year to prove he has no problems with his injury, incase you forgot Stevens missed liek all of last year with his neck injury, so the exact same argument could be put towards him. Maybe Stevens needs to spend a year first to prove that he is completely over his neck injury?
Flawed logic..
The captain will be voted by his teamates.
at the moment it will be something like
Judd 41
Stevens 1
Judd will be captain because every player wants him to be captain...
The captain will be voted by his teamates.
at the moment it will be something like
Judd 41
Stevens 1
Judd will be captain because every player wants him to be captain...
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