Why Chris Judd Should/Shouldn't Be Captain

[true_blue_69]

Flawed logic..

The captain will be voted by his teamates.

at the moment it will be something like

Judd 41
Stevens 1


Judd will be captain because every player wants him to be captain...

as far as I am aware the players voted on the leadership group.
It is from that leadership group, they each will have time to prove their capabilities as a leader onfield & after the NAB Cup, the board & Ratts etc will make the decision on who the captain (from that leadership group) will be

 

[Monkey King]

Did all those who say that CJ can't be appointed captain simply because he hasn't accomplished anything on field for Carlton also think that Richard Pratt could not have been president because at the time of his appointment he had not yet accomplished anything for Carlton but only other businesses and that the president should have been chosed from someone who was already on the board and proven themselves at Carlton?

I believe Pratt had previously served on the Carlton board and has long been a club benefactor.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

This is a minor issue.

Whether or not Judd is captain, he will still lead by example on the field, and the young players will benefit.

Whether or not Stevens is captain, he will still lead by example on the field, and the young players will benefit.

Regardless of who gets the official vote, it's obvious that these two are the primary leaders.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

I would call this a weaker argument. If you know anything about business, you would know that in today's world, the culture of a business is VERY important. People are assigned regularly to ensure there is a good culture and attitude within the workplace. Everything you said about the football team can apply back to a business. Many people think that promotions (aka the captaincy in footy), should only go to workers who have been at the business for a long time. A lot of people have issues with businesses poaching blokes from other businesses and putting them straight into a leading position (an example of this is John O'Neil leaving rugby to become CEO of Football Australia and doing a superb job). Some believe that blokes who have "bled" for the business, and worked there ass off there for many years, deserve the promotion. The fact is though, this often isn't the case, and often a bloke coming into the business can have a lot of success as their obviously highly regarded, and they can also offer fresh ideas (this could occur with Judd being captain, as he can offer a fresh side of things to our club). Pretty much, there are many similarities between the Judd issue and how leaders are appointed in businesses

And in regards to your statement that Judd needs to play for a year to prove he has no problems with his injury, incase you forgot Stevens missed liek all of last year with his neck injury, so the exact same argument could be put towards him. Maybe Stevens needs to spend a year first to prove that he is completely over his neck injury?

Haha, both of these statements are very poor. Stevens has proved himself at the club. Judd has zero history. You are dreaming if you count them in the same basket.

As for your first statement, rediculous. Every business as a standard gets new mgmt all the time. People within are overlooked ALL the time. Quite often they need to move on to a new company to get the promotion they want. You could argue that in a business world, 50% get promoted from within an organization at upper mgmt level and 50% get hired from outside. People within an organization expect they might look outside, that's just the breaks. Now lets compare that with inside a footy club. How many captains are appointed in their first year as an outsider, hmm, maybe 1-5% with 5% being generous. The difference is monumental!

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

as far as I am aware the players voted on the leadership group.
It is from that leadership group, they each will have time to prove their capabilities as a leader onfield & after the NAB Cup, the board & Ratts etc will make the decision on who the captain (from that leadership group) will be

The decision has already been made...

 

[Funkalicous]

The decision has already been made...

I thought they would've made the decision in Saffer, after they all "bonded". You didn't jump on a banana-boat too, did ya?

Don't really think their can be any certainty. The hierarchy between men can change quickly while on safari.

 

[smithos]

Pointless thread. For starters, Nick Stevens didn't have the support of his teamates to be appointed captain ahead of Lance Whitnal last year. To think that such a large group of young players - who would have to a man held Judd as the player who's achievments they aspired to replicate - would want anyone but Chris Judd leading them is ridiculous. Stevens is coming back from a career threatening injury, he just needs to concentrate on his football.

Further, the club no longer wants Fev to be the franchise player; they want Judd to be the face of Carlton like Buckley and Hird have been for Collingwood and Essendon over the last decade, which is the correct stance to take.

For those thinking he hasn't 'earnt it', just think 18 months ago Smorgan was doing special announcements on the Footy Show, declaring we were broke and couldn't pay our players, if someone said at that point a year and a half from now you'd be saying Chris Judd shouldn't be allowed to just walk in and captain the club, you'd assume there was also a spot of head trauma in there somewhere.

He may not have not have played a game, but he's already in the top 5 players to ever represent the club and by the end of his career he'll be the number 1. He has the support of the club and his teamates and we should be ecstatic that he has put himself in the running for the captaincy.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Walker said Chris Judd had shown by his actions that he wanted to captain the Blues.

Walker said Judd was the man for the job, despite reservations about the former Eagle being appointed captain in his first season.

"For starters I didn't know if it was the right thing to do, him coming into the club and taking the position. But after getting to know him over the pre-season, he has grown on everybody as a leader and as a role model to the young boys," Walker said.

"The boys love him as a bloke and he would be good for the job. I am pretty sure it will be him or Nick Stevens.

"You can tell he really wants it, the way he is getting around the club. And he doesn't seem out of place, even though he's only been here 12 weeks."

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Pointless thread. For starters, Nick Stevens didn't have the support of his teamates to be appointed captain ahead of Lance Whitnal last year. To think that such a large group of young players - who would have to a man held Judd as the player who's achievments they aspired to replicate - would want anyone but Chris Judd leading them is ridiculous. Stevens is coming back from a career threatening injury, he just needs to concentrate on his football.

Where is the common sense these days.

1) Not pointless - interesting thread. It is not a done deal yet and there are options to consider on the captaincy.
2) Steven's did have support which was WHY he was 2nd in line for captaincy behind Whitnall...that means he had support ahead of 38 other guys. Dumb comment!

Just because you are a franchise player doesnt mean you are going to be captain. Think Hodge and Buddy from the hawks. They are not captain. Think Wells at the Kangas, hes their star player! Sometimes picking a leader is more important rather than picking a gun player.

Having said all that, Walker's comments in today's Herald Sun if accurate suggest Judd is pretty close to having the job. He also suggests the young players are backing Judd in.

PS I'm reasonably ok with Judd getting the nod as captain...though as a long time supporter I'd would prefer someone else right now (2008) and let Judd earn it.

 

[parrot]

This is going to be an interesting decision. I was surprised by Walkers public comments. He actually said Judd was his choice as Captain, and that he thought Judd really wanted the job as well. I'd prefer Stevens was given the captaincy , only because he has been around the place longer. But if the players are overwhelming in their support for Judd, then the match committee will find it hard to ignore that. Looks like being Judd (c), Stevens (vc) and perhaps Simmo (dvc). We can't lose either way. Both are excellent candidates.

 

[smithos]

Where is the common sense these days.

1) Not pointless - interesting thread. It is not a done deal yet and there are options to consider on the captaincy.
2) Steven's did have support which was WHY he was 2nd in line for captaincy behind Whitnall...that means he had support ahead of 38 other guys. Dumb comment!

Just because you are a franchise player doesnt mean you are going to be captain. Think Hodge and Buddy from the hawks. They are not captain. Think Wells at the Kangas, hes their star player! Sometimes picking a leader is more important rather than picking a gun player.

Having said all that, Walker's comments in today's Herald Sun if accurate suggest Judd is pretty close to having the job. He also suggests the young players are backing Judd in.

PS I'm reasonably ok with Judd getting the nod as captain...though as a long time supporter I'd would prefer someone else right now (2008) and let Judd earn it.

Stevens is a leader at the club, but so is Fev and Scotland, they simply aren't candidates. Lance was chosen ahead of Stevens which should give you an idea of how highly Stevo's leadership is valued, ie. Judd doesn't have a lot to beat - understand McFly?? Every player interviewed on the subject has put their support behind Judd, this should also be a give away.

Every club wants to have its franchise player, captain, best onfield performer and best off-field speaker all wraped up in the one person, ie. the face of the club, which is perhaps why clubs aren't all jumping onboard the Daniel Wells model, yet every club wants a Jim Hird as captain.

All the youngsters look up to Judd, the older guys are mesmarized by him, the media gravitate towards him, he'll appear on all the club stationary, and he's our best player, but yes, Wiggo is more qualified.

 

[Bluebear]

Where is the common sense these days.

1) Not pointless - interesting thread. It is not a done deal yet and there are options to consider on the captaincy.
2) Steven's did have support which was WHY he was 2nd in line for captaincy behind Whitnall...that means he had support ahead of 38 other guys. Dumb comment!

Just because you are a franchise player doesnt mean you are going to be captain. Think Hodge and Buddy from the hawks. They are not captain. Think Wells at the Kangas, hes their star player! Sometimes picking a leader is more important rather than picking a gun player.

Having said all that, Walker's comments in today's Herald Sun if accurate suggest Judd is pretty close to having the job. He also suggests the young players are backing Judd in.

PS I'm reasonably ok with Judd getting the nod as captain...though as a long time supporter I'd would prefer someone else right now (2008) and let Judd earn it.

Judd hasn't earned it?

He runs the 3.2 time trial faster than anyone in our group, after having a groin op..........and runs it on his own...........he gut runs at training (a first for some time)........and works his arse off.

Name me someone in our current team that has shown this quality?
The players have been blown away by how hard he works and how he carries himself, you can see it in everything they say and do.

Stevo should be considered.......but he has had a number of years to "lead" this group, and to be honest, it was only last season that he started to show it.

I would have no probs with Judd as Captain, but also would have no probs with the co-captain rumour. Judd and Stevo.

If we are waiting until he "earns it" in a game, then lets open this debate again after his first NAB cup game - and then shut the books.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Judd hasn't earned it?

He runs the 3.2 time trial faster than anyone in our group, after having a groin op..........and runs it on his own...........he gut runs at training (a first for some time)........and works his arse off.

Name me someone in our current team that has shown this quality?
The players have been blown away by how hard he works and how he carries himself, you can see it in everything they say and do.

Stevo should be considered.......but he has had a number of years to "lead" this group, and to be honest, it was only last season that he started to show it.

I would have no probs with Judd as Captain, but also would have no probs with the co-captain rumour. Judd and Stevo.

If we are waiting until he "earns it" in a game, then lets open this debate again after his first NAB cup game - and then shut the books.

By earn it I mean a lot of things...try these:
1) Yes...on field history with our club
2) Off field history with the club...that is, interaction with runners, trainers, board mgmt, cheer squad, fans, everyone!
3) History of knowing the players, their strengths and weaknesses. Only time can do this.
4) Knowledge of the Carlton culture, past champions etc. He is only learning like a first year player.

Captaincy is a reward for all these things, sometimes it is a Hird type, sometimes it is a Vandenberg type but they all earnt it. Of course it is better if your marquee player wants the captaincy and can do it. Not always the case! But one thing for sure...in some way it devalues input from Stevens/Simmo who led the club for periods of time. Stevens prior to Judd signing would have thought he was in the van for captaincy and now he is probably not...he has to get over that and bleed for the club that has overlooked him. Wouldn't be surprised if he was miffed, and looked over his shoulder at the Pies once again.

Important. What i'm talking about above is how it SHOULD go in appointing a captain inside a club. Of course we cant see the inner workings of Carlton but obv JUdd is having a big impact on the playing group, so like one of my previous posts, it is a grey area and as a Blues supporter can't be unhappy at the thought of the mighty Judd coming in and captaining the side! Still prefer Stevens if he has not lost the respect of the playing group.

 

[Bluebear]

By earn it I mean a lot of things...try these:
1) Yes...on field history with our club
2) Off field history with the club...that is, interaction with runners, trainers, board mgmt, cheer squad, fans, everyone!
3) History of knowing the players, their strengths and weaknesses. Only time can do this.
4) Knowledge of the Carlton culture, past champions etc. He is only learning like a first year player.

Captaincy is a reward for all these things, sometimes it is a Hird type, sometimes it is a Vandenberg type but they all earnt it. Of course it is better if your marquee player wants the captaincy and can do it. Not always the case! But one thing for sure...in some way it devalues input from Stevens/Simmo who led the club for periods of time. Stevens prior to Judd signing would have thought he was in the van for captaincy and now he is probably not...he has to get over that and bleed for the club that has overlooked him. Wouldn't be surprised if he was miffed, and looked over his shoulder at the Pies once again.

Important. What i'm talking about above is how it SHOULD go in appointing a captain inside a club. Of course we cant see the inner workings of Carlton but obv JUdd is having a big impact on the playing group, so like one of my previous posts, it is a grey area and as a Blues supporter can't be unhappy at the thought of the mighty Judd coming in and captaining the side! Still prefer Stevens if he has not lost the respect of the playing group.

Really?
So Sticks had done so much of all this in his first year at the club that he had earnt the right to captain the team?
By my reckoning he couldn't have ticked many of those boxes in one year, yet he was arguably our greatest leader.

In my experience leaders tend to stand out and choose themselves, and as you have alluded to they immediately rub off on the players and staff.

Stevo has been at he club a number of years and would tick a lot of the boxes you have stated above, yet, I don't recall senior players singing his praises as at any point in time, as we have seen with Judd over the past few weeks.

I wouldn't be unhappy with either choice, but the method of choosing captain doesn't need to be so rigid as what you have described, if it was Sticks wouldn't have led us to a flag in '87................Johnston would have.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Really?
So Sticks had done so much of all this in his first year at the club that he had earnt the right to captain the team?
By my reckoning he couldn't have ticked many of those boxes in one year, yet he was arguably our greatest leader.

In my experience leaders tend to stand out and choose themselves, and as you have alluded to they immediately rub off on the players and staff.

Stevo has been at he club a number of years and would tick a lot of the boxes you have stated above, yet, I don't recall senior players singing his praises as at any point in time, as we have seen with Judd over the past few weeks.

I wouldn't be unhappy with either choice, but the method of choosing captain doesn't need to be so rigid as what you have described, if it was Sticks wouldn't have led us to a flag in '87................Johnston would have.

Yep and lets also forget about another certain player who captained Carlton in his 1st year.

Ron Barassi

 

[Bluebear]

Yep and lets also forget about another certain player who captained Carlton in his 1st year.

Ron Barassi

Who?

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Who?

They are good examples for sure but also represent a time long gone by where Carlton bought its premierships - funnily enough you can't do that now! Comp is too even, Bris have JB but he doesnt guarantee them poo.

One thing Carlton has done (administration-wise) over the last 10 dumb years is not react to changes on how you win a premiership. Knee jerk reactions on giving away high draft picks + salary cap cheating to try and attempt to bring on a premiership sooner.

Finally they have learned some patience is required, and that the DRAFT rules and you have to wait your turn. It was obv years ago except to the Carlton administration who were too arrogant. You could argue that the board could be again trying to rush ahead of time towards a premiership before we're rdy, this time from a team structure point of view. Rushing Judd in as captain ahead of time could be just another act of getting ahead of ourselves.

Note: The one thing that placates me somewhat is not the board who will jump the gun again with their marquee player but Judd hinself who is a very thoughtful studious player. I rate his thinking and analysis way ahead of the Carlton board or even Rattens. Hopefully he will pick the right path for the success of our club.

PS
Again this is all perspective. Aside from Stevens (if he actually has internal support) then I dont think we have another player as a choice. Judd would be my 2nd choice if Stevens is friendless come the captaincy vote.

 

[Thrawn]

PS
Again this is all perspective. Aside from Stevens (if he actually has internal support) then I dont think we have another player as a choice. Judd would be my 2nd choice if Stevens is friendless come the captaincy vote.

*Cough* Kade Simpson. *Cough*

 

[Bluebear]

They are good examples for sure but also represent a time long gone by where Carlton bought its premierships - funnily enough you can't do that now! Comp is too even, Bris have JB but he doesnt guarantee them poo.

One thing Carlton has done (administration-wise) over the last 10 dumb years is not react to changes on how you win a premiership. Knee jerk reactions on giving away high draft picks + salary cap cheating to try and attempt to bring on a premiership sooner.

All true, and I agree. Not sure what iut has to do with captaincy though.

Finally they have learned some patience is required, and that the DRAFT rules and you have to wait your turn. It was obv years ago except to the Carlton administration who were too arrogant. You could argue that the board could be again trying to rush ahead of time towards a premiership before we're rdy, this time from a team structure point of view. Rushing Judd in as captain ahead of time could be just another act of getting ahead of ourselves.

Ahead of time?
By who's clock - he is easily the most decorated player on our list. He has made enough of an impact that he was voted (if you believe the whispers) well ahead of his next nearest opponent as the number 1 into the leadership group (I'd heard 60% of the top votes).
Clearly the group feel he is leading them. The club use him to speak, promote anything they care to open, buy memberships...........anything you like.

Yes, there are other good candidates, but if he gets the job it will be because the players will follow him and the board thinks he can lead them.
Surely that's what a captain is there to do.

Stevo and Simmo both good candidates too IMO, but I won't be upset if Judd gets it.

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Not implying anything, just putting it out there, but Petro Civiniceva was appointed captain of NRL club the Penrith Panthers yesterday. He was in almost the exact same position as Judd. He hasn't played a game for the Panthers (traded there this year), has been a certainty in the starting Australian side for many years, and has played State of Origin pretty much every year. Differences are that he's a lot older than Judd (I think he's like 30), doesn't have an injury issue like Judd, and although he's a great player, was never in the same league as Judd is in the AFL.

Pretty much just wanted to show that another guy has been appointed captain of a club without playing a game for them