why do we continue to draft ruckmen with our early picks?

[golions]

why do we continue to draft ruckmen with our early picks?

we've done it over and over again with no obvious rewards.
Wood was hyped up early but was a disaster.
Leuey while being good at times, in fairness hasn't lived up to the hype (remember we picked him over Selwood in an epic draft) that surrounded his drafting.

I think our 01-03 teams as well as Geelong in recent times has shown that the midfield is the key Sure you need ruckmen, but only serviceable ruckmen like Charman, Keating and McDonald from 01-03. As long as they provide a contest, the rest is up the midfield.

A great midfield also covers up for:
-lack of good forwards (if the midfield sends the ball down there enoguh times, you are bound to score)
-lack of good backman (winning more of the ball out of the middle means that the backline doesn't get bombarded)

We should be trying to draft quick skillful mids with our early picks. Ruckmen also take longer to develop and they are more injury prone - they are more of a risk IMO.

 

[Dom PC]

Nup, I think your wrong here. Longer sets our top 2 ruck spots up for the next 8 years.

If you think Berger was only good this year then I think your wrong. Berger had a great year and at 23 he still has room for improvement.

Also worth taking note that, Longer has great speed and a great mark. So he could become a great asset up forward.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Going off early here.... Leunberger is on track to be one of the best rucks in the comp over the next 5 years.. Longer potentially should do exactly the same.

 

[Haso]

why do we continue to draft ruckmen with our early picks?

we've done it over and over again with no obvious rewards.
Wood was hyped up early but was a disaster.
Leuey while being good at times, in fairness hasn't lived up to the hype (remember we picked him over Selwood in an epic draft) that surrounded his drafting.

I think our 01-03 teams as well as Geelong in recent times has shown that the midfield is the key Sure you need ruckmen, but only serviceable ruckmen like Charman, Keating and McDonald from 01-03. As long as they provide a contest, the rest is up the midfield.

A great midfield also covers up for:
-lack of good forwards (if the midfield sends the ball down there enoguh times, you are bound to score)
-lack of good backman (winning more of the ball out of the middle means that the backline doesn't get bombarded)

We should be trying to draft quick skillful mids with our early picks. Ruckmen also take longer to develop and they are more injury prone - they are more of a risk IMO.

I think you might be in the minority here. Leuey is on track to be a top two ruckman, and Charmo and Keating were far more than serviceable. We have a host of mids now who are developing, but we only had one top ruck. Leuey can't be expected to shoulder the ruck load for the whole match, and replacing him with McKeever was sometimes doing more harm that good. Having two elite ruckmen who can rotate 60/40 between ruck and the forward line is probably the best case scenario from what I have seen.

Another side of the coin is mentality and demeanor. The recruiting team really did their homework in their picks. Longer was the captain of Vic Metro and is highly regarded by everybody who speaks about him. His fit in the team will have less tangible benefits, but will benefit hugely nonetheless. Remember, Kerr has a PHD is Organisational Psychology, and he knows what to look for in people.

I couldn't be happier with Longer at 8. It's time that we stopped complaining about things that we aren't totally informed about and see how all of this list and coach work can do for the team next year.

 

[chopperduck]

why do we continue to draft ruckmen with our early picks?

we've done it over and over again with no obvious rewards.
Wood was hyped up early but was a disaster.
Leuey while being good at times, in fairness hasn't lived up to the hype (remember we picked him over Selwood in an epic draft) that surrounded his drafting.

You have to be kidding.

I think our 01-03 teams as well as Geelong in recent times has shown that the midfield is the key Sure you need ruckmen, but only serviceable ruckmen like Charman, Keating and McDonald from 01-03. As long as they provide a contest, the rest is up the midfield.

Wouldn't go that far. We had a great midfield, but our ruckmen were very good. Also have to realise how different the role of a ruckman is then compared to now. Even the Cats had Ottens in recent days, and he is certainly more than a serviceable ruckman.

A great midfield also covers up for:
-lack of good forwards (if the midfield sends the ball down there enoguh times, you are bound to score)
-lack of good backman (winning more of the ball out of the middle means that the backline doesn't get bombarded)

Great mids are needed, but you need the balance. Cats just won the flag on the back of a great midfield teamed with a very solid back and forward unit. I would argue the backline and forward line was the difference in that grand final.

We should be trying to draft quick skillful mids with our early picks. Ruckmen also take longer to develop and they are more injury prone - they are more of a risk IMO.

Probably a reason to draft high end ruckmen. Recent years the top picked rucks have been the ones to develop quicker or been able to play roles in the senior team earlier. Longer has a bit to go, but is probably good enough to play a couple of games next year to get a taste.

You look at teams like Carlton who are over reliant on a midfield unit. It might cut it during the regular season, but it won't win you premierships.

 

[pulpdriver]

I think rucks have become more important than ever. Not only do they need to win as many hitouts as possible they are expected to have the mobility to function as an extra midfielder and be able to hit the scoreboard up forward and nullify opposition kicks across the goals in defense. If Longer was best available, the so be it. Happy to have him on board.

 

[Swanny10]

Golions is surely Terry Wallace masquerading as a lions supporter?

If not then must at least come from the same school of recruiting as Terry.

 

[ZoBlitz]

If there is ever a time to be selecting the best ruckman in a draft at pick 8, it is for a club that only has one quality ruckman and one ex-retired ruckman on its list.

 

[Nuggo]

I think the strategy is sound but previously the execution has been a shocker horror. If a KPP or Ruck is available at a early pick and they are deemed a beauty then go for it I reckon but if there is doubt then using later picks is perhaps the way to go.

If a midfield is critical who is at the centre of the midfield?

 

[Swanny10]

I think the strategy is sound but previously the execution has been a shocker horror. If a KPP or Ruck is available at a early pick and they are deemed a beauty then go for it I reckon but if there is doubt then using later picks is perhaps the way to go.

If a midfield is critical who is at the centre of the midfield?

Also our current 3 best mids Black, Rockliff and Redden were all 2nd round or later (PSD rocky) and are better players than most of the early selected mids in their respective draft classes. There is no guarantee a top 10 mid will end up being a better player than a pick 35. Grigg or Seb Ross could end up being better players than Sumner or Tyson.

 

[Ceebee]

We needed a ruckman I guess.he was the best available.

Not sure we have been continully drafting them.

Not sure what to make of the thread actually.

 

[cotter101]

why do we continue to draft ruckmen with our early picks?

we've done it over and over again with no obvious rewards.
Wood was hyped up early but was a disaster.
Leuey while being good at times, in fairness hasn't lived up to the hype (remember we picked him over Selwood in an epic draft) that surrounded his drafting.

I think our 01-03 teams as well as Geelong in recent times has shown that the midfield is the key Sure you need ruckmen, but only serviceable ruckmen like Charman, Keating and McDonald from 01-03. As long as they provide a contest, the rest is up the midfield.

A great midfield also covers up for:
-lack of good forwards (if the midfield sends the ball down there enoguh times, you are bound to score)
-lack of good backman (winning more of the ball out of the middle means that the backline doesn't get bombarded)

We should be trying to draft quick skillful mids with our early picks. Ruckmen also take longer to develop and they are more injury prone - they are more of a risk IMO.

Wow are you kidding (serious question). Leueunberge has done great this year and will become one of the best if not he will be the best in the competition.

Our mids are our strongest part. our KPPs need some serious work for when our midfield peaks.

 

[Nick Lions]

We need them? Really hoping Longer can become a bit like Ottens TBH. If you look at this years GF, personally, I think Ottens was nearly the cats BOG. His ruck work was very good. But it was his work around the ground that won them the game. Took some decisive marks and provided a really solid target. With all due respect to Brad, he wouldn't be as quick or agile as Billy will be (mostly due to age). With his reputed excellent hands and being 202cm, why not recruit him first. He will at least become one of the better pure rucks in the comp and it's quite possible that he will be groomed to play a bit of time up forward. He'll need some work on his kicking, but it can't hurt putting it to the top of the square every so often and that's when Billy will come into his own. Can't miss too many from dead infront. The best sides of the last decade have had the best rucks.

 

[patfullfankezz]

Leuenbeast is awesome. Hopefully Longer can match him!

I really don't care who or what we draft. How many times has a player been drafted for one job and ended up doing another? Examples include Danny Merrett, Justin Leppitsch and the greatest player of all Joel Patfull. All started as forwards and ended up down back.

Let's not go into players that can do it all, for example Jonathan Brown.

 

[Chasing the Dream]

If there is ever a time to be selecting the best ruckman in a draft at pick 8, it is for a club that only has one quality ruckman and one ex-retired ruckman on its list.

This is as accurate as it gets.

I know our midfield is young, but if we can not assemble a more than serviceable midfield around Rich, Rockliff, Reddan and Polec I would be surprised. Add the likes of Hanley, Harwood, Bartlett and possibly a Beams or a Banfield and I am satisfied that the decision to take such a quality ruckman at 8 this year.

Hopefully the 2012 draft will be stronger, and we can pick up another couple of midfielders to compliment the bunch we have.

 

[Swanny10]

This is as accurate as it gets.

I know our midfield is young, but if we can not assemble a more than serviceable midfield around Rich, Rockliff, Reddan and Polec I would be surprised. Add the likes of Hanley, Harwood, Bartlett and possibly a Beams or a Banfield and I am satisfied that the decision to take such a quality ruckman at 8 this year.

Hopefully the 2012 draft will be stronger, and we can pick up another couple of midfielders to compliment the bunch we have.

Add Green and Zorko.

 

[Rally]

If we pick mids, we should've got more talls. If we pick a ruck, we have no midfield depth. If we pick key positions, we should've got a ruck.

Every time...

 

[Skoob]

I think we were lucky Longer didn't go before pick 8 and have serious doubts he would have been there at 12. Think others have pretty well answered the OP's questions.
Charman, Keating and Mcdonald all better than serviceable. Even if not, hard to compare footy of the early naughties with today. The focus now is very much mobile, skilled rucks.
On Geelong, their mids as great as they are, are hardly covering for a weak back or forward line. And the thoughts on Leuey, WOW.

 

[themidlandmaster]

Seriously dunno how anyone would consider Leuenberger a bad pick up. If so, you're welcome to trade him to us like Wood

 

[bungalow_bill]

As some have said our midfield is going along nicely and it's the easiest area to address. We have Rich Polec Redden Bartlett Green et al and with some expected very good draft picks in the next few years we can add more promising mids as we go along. Longer is essentially an extra large midfielder anyway.

 

[tancas]

If we pick mids, we should've got more talls. If we pick a ruck, we have no midfield depth. If we pick key positions, we should've got a ruck.

Every time...

HAHA true and don't forget the old "Hadley picked who"? then all the outcry untill they make their debut, then it's back to "In Hadley we trust".

 

[cotter101]

Personally I really rate a few of the tall's for next years draft.

 

[Quigley]

We have been concentrating on our mids for the last 3 years and have exclusively picked small/mediums with our early picks and we seem to have been going pretty much exclusively with the best available rather than for needs.

This year by the sounds Longer was clearly the top prospect left on our board. The number one ruck position is not a need position for us but there is no doubt the number 2 position is very open. Like Leuey its going to take a few years for Longer to be a legit number 1 option and until then he can be brought along carefully behind Leuey and try and develop his forward game. In 3 or 4 years we'll see how things have gone and if we have 2 dominate number 1 rucks then we may have a decision to make but the coaching staff should be able to work something out. WC did okay this year and took NN at number 2 in a much stronger draft than this years. North and Carlton are another two teams who currently have two legitimate number 1 ruck options on their list. GC will have that problem as well in a couple of years. So we won't be on our own in having that problem if it is a problem at all and not a competitive advantage. It certainly was an advantage for WC this year and Longer is a better forward option than NN.

In a perfect world it would have been great to get a KP/2nd ruck like we lost in Clark. But at the end of the day taking the only top shelf ruck prospect out there should not be a problem given how bare the cupboard is.

 

[BuntonRules]

Watch the youtube of Billy Longer. He is exactly what we need as a team. Top class tap ruckman to relieve Luey. Great contested mark as a key forward. Good game sense. We drafted him where we did because, in building a team, he is precisely what we need. In the long run we will be a better team with him rather than Mitch Clark, IMO.

And don't forget the character assessment. TAC & Vic Metro captain. By all accounts a terrific young man. Father in QLD & wants to be here. Well done.

 

[Quigley]

Personally I really rate a few of the tall's for next years draft.

Who do you have?

Just having a think about it and off the top of my head I can only think of a couple of talls who would be available that I would take in the top 15 or so. For me at the moment those two would be Mason Shaw and Luccon although Daniher is probably in the picture as well despite being a father/son for Essendon.

Not thinking of anyone else I would be considering ahead of the likes of:

Whitfield - early no 1 favourite and rightly so.
Yarran
Mayes - hopefully he plays through the middle next year. Class of the field.
Toumpas - watch this kid I expect him to be a top 3 pick next year.
Irra
Taylor
Kennedy
Garlett
Pongriac
Viney
Grundy - a tall but a ruck rather than a KP