Why getting thrashed is a good thing

[Moo]

Disagree with your conclusion of that.

My point is we could have taken someone to do exactly the same thing, and that has a future beyond this year at the same time.

If we had grabbed a couple of more kids - a real danger that we would have had to expose too many, too early.

Look mate - agree to disagree. At the end of the day holding browne was not the greatest trump card of all time, however I can see where there thinking was and I agreed with it at the time.

I could follow suit on Bigfooty and just pretend I never made the comments but hey that aint my style.

I still think debating the Andrew Browne decision is peanuts when you look at the 2000 - 2006 drafts and trading records.

Like Mem's - if the club had followed the Moo's basic trading rules ...we would be in a far stronger position today. Maybe I'll trhow my hat in the ring when i get my self esteem back.

 

[Chops_a_must]

If we had grabbed a couple of more kids - a real danger that we would have had to expose too many, too early.

Who said anything about getting an extra kid?

I would have classed Cockie and Anthony as mature age recruits.

And chances are, and what has happened, is that Browne has left one of our other kids "exposed" in any case.

I fail to see what difference it makes.

 

[Moo]

Who said anything about getting an extra kid?

I would have classed Cockie and Anthony as mature age recruits.

And chances are, and what has happened, is that Browne has left one of our other kids "exposed" in any case.

I fail to see what difference it makes.

Chops they did what they did mate - build a bridge and get over it.

I've looked over the draft threads and can't see any by you ...who did you want us to take? I had Cockie as a rookie - I rate him but late last year I didn't think he was going to walk up into an AFL team - which may have been in the minds of the club especially if they rated Hall and the others as a strong chance of coming our way.

They kept Browne, Head, Gilmore and Thornton for cover in a list mid build.

All 4 have some AFL experience and are known quantities <insert shit joke here>

You can't cut 20 people in a season and getting thrashed for 22 rounds aint ever good for a club.

 

[Lach72]

We're looking at 0-22 now Moo.
I can see 8-12 being cut this year no problems

 

[Chops_a_must]

Chops they did what they did mate - build a bridge and get over it.

I've looked over the draft threads and can't see any by you ...who did you want us to take? I had Cockie as a rookie - I rate him but late last year I didn't think he was going to walk up into an AFL team - which may have been in the minds of the club especially if they rated Hall and the others as a strong chance of coming our way.

They kept Browne, Head, Gilmore and Thornton for cover in a list mid build.

All 4 have some AFL experience and are known quantities <insert shit joke here>

You can't cut 20 people in a season and getting thrashed for 22 rounds aint ever good for a club.

Really?

Can't have been thorough.

I was known for bagging Rich and De Boer.

I rated Hartlett and Hill ahead of Rich. I thought I made that pretty clear. I thought I also made it pretty clear I wanted Hartlett.

Was expecting to get a mid that was inevitably going to slip from the back end of round 1 at 21. Had no problem with Suban in that case. Also thought we would go for Blight at 24, and also made that clear. Thought we would go for a ruckman with our 3rd rounder. Was thinking that Redden was most likely there. After that, it's a raffle. Was expecting us to get a few mature age players late, and a few bottom agers. That didn't happen.

But I made this all pretty clear on this site.

And as Lachy is hinting at, what difference would it have made anyway? If our own club didn't rate us this year, we should have got rid of everyone we thought to be crabs, and just had a punt.

 

[Memories]

I agree with you to an extent, in that we should have delisted more of the dead weight (Browne, Thornton, Head). And I would have put Mundy and Johnson up for trade, if a top 30 pick was offered. But I don't see the point in delisting essentially every player over 25, as you simply can't rebuild in one draft. You still need to have a core of experienced players, around which the young guys can play.

I wouldn't have necessarily gotten rid of everyone over 25, Sandi would stay for instance. Everyone else would be on a "are they worth trading?" type basis and also weighed against the value of having a pick 80+ over them. Certain players you would delist for sure (Browne, Thornton, etc), but the slightly better older players would only be delisted if we had enough quality youngsters to replace them. When it came down to it, it would likely be Tarrant, Hase, Solomon and Grover who would also stay with Sandilands. So that's at least 5 over 25.

I think we could have traded Hayden, Pav, Pharlap, Mundi, MiJo, Crowley and possibly Schammer. We would be looking at around 7-10 picks of varying quality. We could have ended up with Rich, Hartlett, Hill and Robinson, depending on how much we received for Pharlap. Those 4 would be awesome in the same team this year. It is likely they would be performing better than what we have at the moment, at least in the midfield.

It would also have meant a player like Campbell/Murphy finally has a role in our team, if their poor form continued for our first development year we could have got rid of them next year with no major loss. If we had loaded up on mids in this draft (when there was a lot of quality) we could have concentrated more on the KPPs in the next. But ohwell.

I'd rather be pumped by 120 points by the saints (instead of 80) but know in the back of my mind Rich, Hartlett, Robinson and Hill are still in their first years. Unlike now where there is little to look forward to because I know our middle is going to need a shitload more picks to even approach reasonable.

 

[E Shed]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever suggest trading Hayden.
He's probably our most important player.
Extraordinary.

 

[Chops_a_must]

I doubt we would/ will have got anything for him anyway.

Probably only has next year left.

 

[Moo]

Really?

Can't have been thorough.

I checked 1 thread (one which I started) so yes I was very thorough.

Memories your Pav for 3 picks trade was that fact or just what you thought?

 

[Memories]

I checked 1 thread (one which I started) so yes I was very thorough.

Memories your Pav for 3 picks trade was that fact or just what you thought?

It was 2 picks. Their first+second or first+third. I would be fairly certain we would have got one of those two had we traded Pav in the draft just gone. But yes, it is in my head.

 

[Memories]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever suggest trading Hayden.
He's probably our most important player.
Extraordinary.

If you actually read the thread you wouldn't post such dribble.

 

[E Shed]

If you actually read the thread you wouldn't post such dribble.

I really don't get why you think you are so much smarter than everyone else.
Gee you are suggesting we should have traded anyone that can play footy so we could get lots of high draft picks, it's not freaking rocket science dude.
I am genuinely bemused as I've just never heard anyone suggest that we put Rodger on the table.
He just seems one of those quiet heart and soul type players that makes everyone else look better cause he's so freaking good. It's just so unlikely the idea of trading him. For some reason I find that weirder than trading anyone else at Freo.

 

[Memories]

I really don't get why you think you are so much smarter than everyone else.

You won't get it because you haven't had a life time of the conditionings I have had.

He just seems one of those quiet heart and soul type players that makes everyone else look better cause he's so freaking good. It's just so unlikely the idea of trading him. For some reason I find that weirder than trading anyone else at Freo.

I'm not sure of your point, he is a good player and he will attract a trade value. Or rather he would have last year it's dicey whether he would this year. The best time to get rid of him would have been in 2007 when we are talking about trade value and with us knowing where the list was at.

If you had read the thread you would know I was taking about trading in previous years which should have been done, but like usual you've waltzed in on a thread at the end, read one post and formed another wobbly conclusion. If you can't be bothered to read what is written I'm not sure why you expect anyone to take what you write seriously.

 

[E Shed]

The thing about you memories as others have pointed out is you are prepared to make these sweeping assumptions about anyone here without even a modicum of fact or proof yet you claim that no-one can possibly understand you because we haven't had the "lifetime of conditionings" (whatever that means) that you have. Occasionally you make some good points then just trash it all by resorting to pointless insults. You are almost sociopathic in the way you interact.
I was actually having one of those gee I can't imagine that, what an extraordinary thing to say moments. I didn't make any conclusions.
I've read the whole thread, I get it.
I don't much see the point of all these what we could have should threads. We have to play the cards we have. But that's ok. It's nice to have something to read when I log on and you do create lots of traffic. Carry on.

 

[The Night Shift]

I enjoy your post Memories. It gets movement on the board. So does Gentleman Jeff's., even thogh Jeff is unjustly a little upset at me....
The colour commentator is always required for balance...

 

[estibador]

I enjoy your post Memories.

Now we know how you got your 100% Memories Approval you suck up.

 

[Lach72]

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25345218-5017479,00.html


B

lues the next superpower

By Paul Roos

April 17, 2009 12:00am

AS REGULAR readers of this column know, I've often written about the draft and salary cap being important tools for rebuilding, and one of the reasons fans are excited by a new season.

Carlton are a perfect example of a football club that has been able to use the draft to mould their list into a very, very good team.

By quickly running through Carlton's top draft picks during the past several years, you can see the evolution of a team from strugglers to potential champions.

In 2002, despite finishing last, Carlton were still being punished by the AFL for salary cap breaches and had to forfeit their first two draft picks, so they selected Kade Simpson at pick 45.

But then things started to look up for the Blues when they selected Andrew Walker with pick two in the 2003 national draft after finishing 15th.

In 2004, Carlton finished 11th and picked up talented midfielder Nick Stevens with pick two in the pre-season draft and Jordan Russell with pick nine in the national draft.

After finishing last again in 2005, the Blues snared Eddie Betts with pick three in the pre-season draft followed by Marc Murphy with pick one and Josh Kennedy with pick four in the national draft that year.

In 2006, the Blues won the wooden spoon and were able to again take the best junior player in the country, selecting midfielder Bryce Gibbs with pick one.

The following year, after finishing 15th, Carlton had obtained a priority selection and again took the best junior player in the country in ruckman Matthew Kreuzer.

On top of that the Blues were able to cash in on their wealth of early draft picks by pulling off the biggest trade in a decade, giving up Josh Kennedy for Chris Judd.

Last year the Blues finished 11th and picked up another exciting young prospect who is yet to make his debut in medium-sized forward Chris Yarran with pick six.

With so many great draft picks and the Judd trade, it's easy to see why Carlton are tipped by the experts to significantly improve this season and can look forward to a period of sustained success.

It shows just how effectively you can rebuild a list through the draft and by key trades, but it requires bottoming out for a period of three or four years.

Memories is Paul Roos

 

[The Night Shift]

Now we know how you got your 100% Memories Approval you suck up.

Memories approved or GTFO...

..and I would be close to that 8% as well...

 

[Memories]

Memories is Paul Roos

Even Caroline Wilson on footy classified was saying the exact thing I was , but in regards to her club Richmond.... get rid of all the "oldies" she said and only play kids. It's obvious if your club can tank to get picks that it is the wisest decision to make. WCE did it last year with ease, Carlton the year(s) before, the professional clubs that can, will always do it. The other issue with our club is do we have what it takes to develop players, our history doesn't scream success in this area. So there are 2 areas we need to improve, the ability to long term think and the ability to develop players.

Richmond tanking doesn't bode well for our round 10 clash, so we will need to ensure our better players are suspended, injured or dropped for that game. Bring on the melees.

 

[Moo]

Even Caroline Wilson on footy classified was saying the exact thing I was , but in regards to her club Richmond.... get rid of all the "oldies" she said and only play kids. It's obvious if your club can tank to get picks that it is the wisest decision to make. WCE did it last year with ease, Carlton the year(s) before, the professional clubs that can, will always do it. The other issue with our club is do we have what it takes to develop players, our history doesn't scream success in this area. So there are 2 areas we need to improve, the ability to long term think and the ability to develop players.

Richmond tanking doesn't bode well for our round 10 clash, so we will need to ensure our better players are suspended, injured or dropped for that game. Bring on the melees.

If Caroline Wilson agrees with you - it means you are 100% wrong.

 

[Memories]

If Caroline Wilson agrees with you - it means you are 100% wrong.

Usually I'd agree, but when she says something that someone as intelligent as me has said then she is right for once. Caroline has also been known to read bigfooty, she has likely already read many of my posts.

 

[Moo]

Usually I'd agree, but when she says something that someone as intelligent as me has said then she is right for once. Caroline has also been known to read bigfooty, she has likely already read many of my posts.

Kevin Rudd zips by as well - perhaps you could jump onto the Society, Culture and Politics board and make a few suggestions.

Couldn't hurt?