Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thread rules update:

From this point if you're going to make a connection between Islam and the crime rate, you need to demonstrate causation in your post. If you do not, I'm going to infract you for the inherent racism in the position you're taking.

 

[Chief]

30+ years. Compare birth rates of Muslims to native Europeans in Europe. Muslim birth rates are 52% higher than their native European counterparts.

Sure, it may take longer than 30 years but they'll get there eventually.

You know that birth rates drop as people get educated and better jobs?

It's simply not logical to assume that birth rates won't change over decades.

This is just your attempt to intellectualise your bigotry.

 

[bzparkes]

I'm not going to go down a critique of current European immigration policy, as I really don't know enough about it other than to suggest that the nationalist voices are ignoring the globalisation of the world economy and thus it's nigh on impossible for any nation to be protected against militant dissatisfaction. I'm just pointing out the two things that you're trying to compare aren't comparable.

Fair enough but FYI, hundreds, if not, thousands of undocumented asylum seekers, mostly from northern Africa, are arriving on a daily basis on boats into Europe and the countries have to accept them if they don't want to pay a $20k Euro fine to the EU commission:

Breakingviews - The EU is stuck with its one-trick refugee policy

The European Union’s population is projected to fall from a peak of 453 million in 2026 to 420 million at the end of the century. By that point, its working-age population will have shrunk to 50% of the total from 59%, according to Eurostat.

www.reuters.com

That's on top of the 1.8 million Syrians who fled to Europe in 2015. The article states irregular border crossings are up 64%(250k so far) this year compared to last year.

The immigration policies are mostly enacted due to the below(note the final sentence:

LONDON, Oct 9 (Reuters Breakingviews) - The European Union’s population is projected to fall from a peak of 453 million in 2026 to 420 million at the end of the century. By that point, its working-age population will have shrunk to 50% of the total from 59%, according to Eurostat.

Such projections may look problematic rather than dire. However, the EU’s statistical agency is assuming cumulative net migration of 98 million people by 2100. Without them, the bloc’s population would be heading for around 320 million. Barring an influx of younger people from Africa and Asia, the EU will become increasingly old, weak and irrelevant.

So the EU, instead of making it more attractive and financially favourable for their local populations to have more children, instead have changed immigration policies to openly accept more illegals(mostly young men) to address the shrinking worker age population.

The major issue is, that they are housing these people together and giving them welfare payments which far exceed any income they would make back home, so many of them simply don't work.

The ones that do get paid less, thus leading to reduced wages for European nationals.

Couple this with the fact that they are very culturally different from each other, violent attacks/terrorism and the right-wing highlighting this in political campaigns and you can see why said right-wing are starting to gain so much support.

 

[bzparkes]

You know that birth rates drop as people get educated and better jobs?

It's simply not logical to assume that birth rates won't change over decades.

This is just your attempt to intellectualise your bigotry.

No, it's not, but keep thinking that if it pleases you.

 

[faible]

Fair enough but FYI, hundreds, if not, thousands of undocumented asylum seekers, mostly from northern Africa, are arriving on a daily basis on boats into Europe and the countries have to accept them if they don't want to pay a $20k Euro fine to the EU commission:

Breakingviews - The EU is stuck with its one-trick refugee policy

The European Union’s population is projected to fall from a peak of 453 million in 2026 to 420 million at the end of the century. By that point, its working-age population will have shrunk to 50% of the total from 59%, according to Eurostat.

www.reuters.com

That's on top of the 1.8 million Syrians who fled to Europe in 2015. The article states irregular border crossings are up 64%(250k so far) this year compared to last year.

The immigration policies are mostly enacted due to the below(note the final sentence:




So the EU, instead of making it more attractive and financially favourable for their local populations to have more children, instead have changed immigration policies to openly accept more illegals(mostly young men) to address the shrinking worker age population.

The major issue is, that they are housing these people together and giving them welfare payments which far exceed any income they would make back home, so many of them simply don't work.

The ones that do get paid less, thus leading to reduced wages for European nationals.

Couple this with the fact that they are very culturally different from each other, violent attacks/terrorism and the right-wing highlighting this in political campaigns and you can see why said right-wing are starting to gain so much support.

You know with increased education comes decreased birth rates, specifically increased female education.

Perhaps it's not just about financial incentives.

 

[bzparkes]

You know with increased education comes decreased birth rates, specifically increased female education.

Perhaps it's not just about financial incentives.

Yes.

Is importing uneducated people en masse the solution?

No.

Incentivizing women to have children, whilst not suffering financially or career-wise(if this is the bigger issue), should have been the first option to be explored, instead of importing hundreds of thousands of undocumented asylum-seekers instead.

 

[evolved2]

I'd say there's a difference between an athiest and an anti-thiest, anti-thiests can get pretty damn militant and irrational in their hatred of religion at times.

Insinuating I'm being irrational without producing reasoning or evidence is a bit rude.

 

[faible]

Yes.

Is importing uneducated people en masse the solution?

No.

Incentivizing women to have children, whilst not suffering financially or career-wise(if this is the bigger issue), should have been the first option to be explored, instead of importing hundreds of thousands of undocumented asylum-seekers instead.

Again though, what if women simply do not want to have that many children.

What if immigrants move here, have lots of children, those children get educated and in turn don't have lots of children and thus the growth curve doesn't continue like you think it will.

 

[bzparkes]

Again though, what if women simply do not want to have that many children.

What if immigrants move here, have lots of children, those children get educated and in turn don't have lots of children and thus the growth curve doesn't continue like you think it will.

Reasonable questions, which I don't have a thought-out answer for right now.

As a pure thought-bubble however(without putting much thought into any implications), if industrial workers are declining for instance, you could look to invest and outsource said work/industry(like is already done) to countries where many of these people are coming from(obviously not possible in a war-torn country). This would then incentivize those people to stay at home, by offering greater work opportunities and improving local economies. Difficult to achieve in said countries obviously due to widespread corruption but that's a different discussion.

Then, in your own country you could increase expenditure into raising education levels further and investing into sectors that require a high-level of education and turning those into your primary industry, thus potentially reducing the shortage of unskilled labour and reducing the reliance on women having to have babies who don't want them to maintain a work force.

Then, if you need to address a labour shortage, you can be far more picky about who you bring in to top up your labour requirements, because the positions would be more 'skilled', so the people you bring in would have a higher education.

I would suggest looking at a country such as Singapore as an example would be a starting point, however obviously they have significant advantages/disadvantages that other, much larger, countries will and won't have to tackle, both culturally and geographically.

In my opinion, importing hundreds of thousands undocumented people annually, from a culture who historically limit women from positions of authority, probably isn't the best solution in the meantime.

 

[sr36]

Reasonable questions, which I don't have a thought-out answer for right now.

As a pure thought-bubble however(without putting much thought into any implications), if industrial workers are declining for instance, you could look to invest and outsource said work/industry(like is already done) to countries where many of these people are coming from(obviously not possible in a war-torn country). This would then incentivize those people to stay at home, by offering greater work opportunities and improving local economies. Difficult to achieve in said countries obviously due to widespread corruption but that's a different discussion.

Then, in your own country you could increase expenditure into raising education levels further and investing into sectors that require a high-level of education and turning those into your primary industry, thus potentially reducing the shortage of unskilled labour and reducing the reliance on women having to have babies who don't want them to maintain a work force.

Then, if you need to address a labour shortage, you can be far more picky about who you bring in to top up your labour requirements, because the positions would be more 'skilled', so the people you bring in would have a higher education.

I would suggest looking at a country such as Singapore as an example would be a starting point, however obviously they have significant advantages/disadvantages that other, much larger, countries will and won't have to tackle, both culturally and geographically.

In my opinion, importing hundreds of thousands undocumented people annually, from a culture who historically limit women from positions of authority, probably isn't the best solution in the meantime.

Your thought bubble shows little understanding about what is driving refugees to flee their country. But get ready for numbers to grow significantly as nationalism and associated conflict and environmental disasters are both well and truly on the rise.

What responsibility do you think Western countries should take for their contributions that have led to conflict and carbon use that is fuelling environmental disasters?

 

[bzparkes]

Your thought bubble shows little understanding about what is driving refugees to flee their country. But get ready for numbers to grow significantly as nationalism and associated conflict and environmental disasters are both well and truly on the rise.

I get those things and the fact that Europe's put little to no means in preventing it from occurring.

What responsibility do you think Western countries should take for their contributions that have led to conflict and carbon use that is fuelling environmental disasters?

Plenty but throwing open the borders, to undocumented, asylum seekers isn't one of them.

This doesn't fix any issues whatsoever, it just creates more of them.

 

[Number37]

Are you really this stupid?

Let me give you a little hint, because you appear to be badly struggling:

How long would you get if you murdered a family member in Australia in the name of 'honour'?

What is the sentence of the perpretator...really???? that's the thing that matters???? really???

No wonder we have DV murder problem in this country.

 

[sr36]

I get those things and the fact that Europe's put little to no means in preventing it from occurring.



Plenty but throwing open the borders, to undocumented, asylum seekers isn't one of them.

This doesn't fix any issues whatsoever, it just creates more of them.

What's the plenty?

 

[bzparkes]

What is the sentence of the perpretator...really???? that's the thing that matters???? really???

It is, because you continually refuse to answer it.

I'll tell you: It's 6-12 months for an honour killing, although some countries have have made some small attempts to increase this.

No wonder we have DV murder problem in this country.

At least in Australia you'll get 10-20 years and won't have your family protesting against the lengthy sentence.

DV in Australia is generally frowned upon in this country, unlike the Islamic world, where it is generally accepted because it's part of their religion.

Now, next time try adding something to the discussion instead of being a complete ignoramus.

 

[JackOutback]

It feels like the last five pages or so has completely dismantled the argument around Islam causing rain, but some posters just seem determined to dig in on their position. When facts change, your opinion should change, anything else is insanity (or racism).

 

[Chief]

DV in Australia is generally frowned upon in this country, unlike the Islamic world, where it is generally accepted because it's part of their religion.

No mate, of course this isn't bigotry.

 

[bzparkes]

What's the plenty?

Setting up proper aid channels and actually making efforts to expel corrupt officials would be one, instead of simply throwing money at a problem and feeling good that you're 'helping'.

Aid organizations in the third-world are rife with corruption, as are local governments.

Also cracking down on shitty companies taking advantage of these regions, such as Nestle, Glencore(who supplies Tesla with cobalt), Rio Tinto, etc, would be a great start.

As would ending Russia's involvement in destabilizing third-world regions(trickier but achievable with how they're bogged down in Ukraine), as well as curbing China's debt traps in the same areas by making the West more appealing as a partner.

 

[Number37]

It is, because you continually refuse to answer it.

I'll tell you: It's 6-12 months for an honour killing, although some countries have have made some small attempts to increase this.



At least in Australia you'll get 10-20 years and won't have your family protesting against the lengthy sentence.

DV in Australia is generally frowned upon in this country, unlike the Islamic world, where it is generally accepted because it's part of their religion.

Now, next time try adding something to the discussion instead of being a complete ignoramus.

DV is frowned upon and here you are championing it because the perpretrator gets 10-20 years.

I'm sure the victim would rather have been murdered in an honour killing in Australia rather than elsewhere.
F me, your islamaphobia is getting more and more desperate.

 

[bzparkes]

No mate, of course this isn't bigotry.

Show me some evidence to back up any claims you are attempting to make, other than gifs.

 

[bzparkes]

DV is frowned upon and here you are championing it because the perpretrator gets 10-20 years.

I'm sure the victim would rather have been murdered in an honour killing in Australia rather than elsewhere.
F me, your islamaphobia is getting more and more desperate.

Aren't very smart, are you?

Time to move on from you, I guess.

 

[sr36]

It feels like the last five pages or so has completely dismantled the argument around Islam causing rain, but some posters just seem determined to dig in on their position. When facts change, your opinion should change, anything else is insanity (or racism).

We're likely to be at the beginning of a drought - perhaps we need more Muslims to cause rain? I don't think they're doing enough rain causing.

 

[Number37]

We're likely to be at the beginning of a drought - perhaps we need more Muslims to cause rain? I don't think they're doing enough rain causing.

If we take say 500,000 Palestinians that should stop any drought for the foreseeable future, shouldn't it?

Only problem is we might have the IDF bombing our hospitals and schools...

 

[sr36]

If we take say 500,000 Palestinians that should stop any drought for the foreseeable future, shouldn't it?

Only problem is we might have the IDF bombing our hospitals and schools...

I'm not sure if the desert states of the middle east are the best place to look for rain causing muslims. We should try Malaysia and Indonesia.

 

[evolved2]

If we take say 500,000 Palestinians that should stop any drought for the foreseeable future, shouldn't it?

Only problem is we might have the IDF bombing our hospitals and schools...

That will solve the rental and housing crisis lefties keep talking about.

 

[Number37]

That will solve the rental and housing crisis lefties keep talking about.

Palestinians have rebuilt Gaza 4 times in 20 years, they've got skills we need to fix the housing crisis.

 

[evolved2]

Palestinians have rebuilt Gaza 4 times in 20 years, they've got skills we need to fix the housing crisis.

No doubt. I'll buy an investment property just in case.