Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thread rules update:

From this point if you're going to make a connection between Islam and the crime rate, you need to demonstrate causation in your post. If you do not, I'm going to infract you for the inherent racism in the position you're taking.

 

[Malifice]

They just murdered 100 people in a terror attack in Iran two weeks ago.

There is the Shia/ Sunni division for starters. Iran and Saudi Arabia on either side.

It's weird that people want to try and describe 'Islam' as some kind of monolithic bloc. It's anything but.

Pointing the finger at all Muslims for the actions of ISIS is like blaming Catholics for the actions of the Westborough Baptist Church.

 

[sr36]

I acknowledged in my post that there is no chance of any of this becoming Statewide. There will never be anything even remotely approaching Sharia Law as overriding law anywhere in the West.

What is more of a concern (and should at least be acknowledged), is the possibility of a coalition with the reactionary Right. Strange bedfellows here.

How Andrew Tate and the Far Right Made Common Cause with Islamists

Western far-right personalities are carving out a new form of conservatism, characterized by an admiring attitude to Islam. Growing unity between conservative Muslims and Christians, and between disaffected young men in both the West and the Middle East, may yet have significant effects on U.S...

newlinesmag.com

Not strange bedfellows at all. The right wing of all the Abrahamic religions are aligned on heaps of social issues. If the US is anything to go by, the Christian right are the bigger threat to social liberties, but the right wing of Islam will support them on a heap of issues.

 

[mcnulty]

Not strange bedfellows at all. The right wing of all the Abrahamic religions are aligned on heaps of social issues. If the US is anything to go by, the Christian right are the bigger threat to social liberties, but the right wing of Islam will support them on a heap of issues.

In the wake of 911 and ‘War on Terror” Muslims were public enemy number 1 for the far right, worst exemplified by atrocities such as Christchurch.

As the article I linked pointed out, some of those professing admiration for Islam were once some of its biggest critics.

 

[sr36]

In the wake of 911 and ‘War on Terror” Muslims were public enemy number 1 for the far right, worst exemplified by atrocities such as Christchurch.

As the article I linked pointed out, some of those professing admiration for Islam were once some of its biggest critics.

It's ultimately politics. Groups that are in political opposition on some issues are often strong allies on other issues.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's ultimately politics. Groups that are in political opposition on some issues are often strong allies on other issues.

Which is why the USA had a habit of setting up some pretty dodgy regimes.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Off the top of my head, Usman Khawaja believes in Allah and the Koran. As does Adam Saad. As does Waleed Ally (I use those blokes because they're famous Aussie Muslims)

Are you saying they're not moderate? Should I fear them for some reason? Have they not assimilated to Australia just fine?

Have they, or any others, denounced the October7 attack unreservedly and publicly, or the radical sermons being delivered?

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

There is the Shia/ Sunni division for starters. Iran and Saudi Arabia on either side.

It's weird that people want to try and describe 'Islam' as some kind of monolithic bloc. It's anything but.

Pointing the finger at all Muslims for the actions of ISIS is like blaming Catholics for the actions of the Westborough Baptist Church.

Islam's Sunni-Shia Divide, Explained | HISTORY

The split between the two main sects within Islam goes back some 1,400 years.

www.history.com

Great post (as usual by you Mal)

The inner Muslim wars in the Middle East between Sunnis and Shites is rather similar to the secular wars between the Catholics and Protestants in The UK (esp Ireland and Scotland) over the centuries.

 

[faible]

Have they, or any others, denounced the October7 attack unreservedly and publicly, or the radical sermons being delivered?

Firstly, if you’re catholic, have you denounced the Crusades? If you’re white, have you denounced the Wieambilla shootings?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Firstly, if you’re catholic, have you denounced the Crusades? If you’re white, have you denounced the Wieambilla shootings?

I'm White i suppose.
Kind of racist of you to consider that I , and any other white would need to denounce the actions of every white psycho in the world.
Its not like we all go to secret white meetings and decide what actions our white brethren should do this week.
Similarly i have not found the need to denounce world world 2 on behalf of Hitler , or the murder of Sharon Tate on behalf of Charles Manson. Your question really if very dumb.

Bit of water under the bridge on the Crusades, but going by this the Catholics ( who , unlike the "whites" are an organisation ) apparently haven't.
Were the Crusades Just Wars?

 

[faible]

I'm White i suppose.
Kind of racist of you to consider that I , and any other white would need to denounce the actions of every white psycho in the world.
Its not like we all go to secret white meetings and decide what actions our white brethren should do this week.
Similarly i have not found the need to denounce world world 2 on behalf of Hitler , or the murder of Sharon Tate on behalf of Charles Manson. Your question really if very dumb.

Bit of water under the bridge on the Crusades, but going by this the Catholics ( who , unlike the "whites" are an organisation ) apparently haven't.
Were the Crusades Just Wars?

Usman Khawaja is of Pakistani descent, is Palestine / Israel relevant such that he needs to comment on it do we think?

 

[Malifice]

Have they, or any others, denounced the October7 attack unreservedly and publicly, or the radical sermons being delivered?

Why should they have to? They didn't do it and aren't connected to it in any way shape or form.

Do you expect Australians living abroad to come out and publicly condemn Ben Roberts Smith or Brenton Tarrant even though we had nothing to do with them?

Uzzie has publicly come out calling for an end to the violence in Gaza from both sides.

Or at least he's tried to. The ICC have repeatedly stopped him from saying a damn thing.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Why should they have to? They didn't do it and aren't connected to it in any way shape or form.

Do you expect Australians living abroad to come out and publicly condemn Ben Roberts Smith or Brenton Tarrant even though we had nothing to do with them?

Uzzie has publicly come out calling for an end to the violence in Gaza from both sides.

Or at least he's tried to. The ICC have repeatedly stopped him from saying a damn thing.

He didn’t have to say anything, no one else tried to. Everyone wants the violence to end, what makes Khawaja different?

Why didn’t he call for the hostages to be returned, that would end the violence? Everyone should be doing that, but strangely, no one is.

 

[JackOutback]

He didn’t have to say anything, no one else tried to. Everyone wants the violence to end, what makes Khawaja different?

Why didn’t he call for the hostages to be returned, that would end the violence? Everyone should be doing that, but strangely, no one is.

If you don’t publicly denounce mass shootings committed by white people in America, does that mean you condone it? Your argument is patently absurd. Do better.

 

[Jazny]

Why didn’t he call for the hostages to be returned, that would end the violence? Everyone should be doing that, but strangely, no one is.

To be fair, I think it's because there is zero point calling for a terrorist organisation to do anything. It's not like they care about international pressure or doing the right thing. They just massacred random civilians, directly targeting them and butchering them in horrific ways, would would they care about international pressure from celebrities calling for them to release hostages?

 

[Gough]

If you don’t publicly denounce mass shootings committed by white people in America, does that mean you condone it? Your argument is patently absurd. Do better.

We didn't hear jack from Howard when Anders Breivik praised him for policies that he's usually first to take credit for.

 

[ferball]

Have they, or any others, denounced the October7 attack unreservedly and publicly, or the radical sermons being delivered?

Why do they have to do that?

 

[ferball]

I'm White i suppose.
Kind of racist of you to consider that I , and any other white would need to denounce the actions of every white psycho in the world.
Its not like we all go to secret white meetings and decide what actions our white brethren should do this week.
Similarly i have not found the need to denounce world world 2 on behalf of Hitler , or the murder of Sharon Tate on behalf of Charles Manson. Your question really if very dumb.

Bit of water under the bridge on the Crusades, but going by this the Catholics ( who , unlike the "whites" are an organisation ) apparently haven't.
Were the Crusades Just Wars?

That was his point.

Someone else said Usman Kuwaja had to denounce the oct 7 attacks. He just posted the same thing with whitey in the frame.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I'm White i suppose.
Kind of racist of you to consider that I , and any other white would need to denounce the actions of every white psycho in the world.
Its not like we all go to secret white meetings and decide what actions our white brethren should do this week.
Similarly i have not found the need to denounce world world 2 on behalf of Hitler , or the murder of Sharon Tate on behalf of Charles Manson. Your question really if very dumb.

Bit of water under the bridge on the Crusades, but going by this the Catholics ( who , unlike the "whites" are an organisation ) apparently haven't.
Were the Crusades Just Wars?

Yellow privilege is awesome. I get to avoid all this white guilt shit (generally Chinese kill each other and ignore the rest of the world as pointless gaijin)

 

[Jazny]

Yellow privilege is awesome. I get to avoid all this white guilt s**t (generally Chinese kill each other and ignore the rest of the world as pointless gaijin)

Aren't china currently being accused of ethnic cleansing Muslims right now?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Aren't china currently being accused of ethnic cleansing Muslims right now?

Well yes that’s why I said generally. Though I think they are also technically “yellow” people

 

[Malifice]

Why didn’t he call for the hostages to be returned, that would end the violence? Everyone should be doing that, but strangely, no one is.

Where do you get this from?

You think Usman Kwaja of all people or Waleed Aly support Hamas taking hostages?

Im sure both men want those people freed as much as you or I do.

 

[mcnulty]

In my experience most modern Muslims are the same and range quite dramatically
I know Muslim females who don’t wear head coverings, males with no beard and tattoos who eat Bacon

Ive also known who are very committed to the point that they adhere to praying multiple times a day and if the numbers are looked at relative each other the comparisons between Muslims and Christians very similar

Let’s be honest when people are referring to Muslims in a negative light they are actually referring to “brown” people

The Muslims I know (through work and parents of school kids etc) are overwhelmingly what I’d call moderate. Lovely people, and wonderful contributors to our country, but they are far more socially conservative than the average Australian. This is not a criticism- we’re in a multicultural society, live however you like.

You’re right in that there is a large range within them, but on social issues their “middle” is very different.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

To be fair, I think it's because there is zero point calling for a terrorist organisation to do anything. It's not like they care about international pressure or doing the right thing. They just massacred random civilians, directly targeting them and butchering them in horrific ways, would would they care about international pressure from celebrities calling for them to release hostages?

So no one at all should demand the release of the hostages because it’s no use? Israel should just give up on them, withdraw their troops and forget the whole thing?

To be FAIR, there’s no chance of that. What if it was Australia in the same position? Would you expect our army/government to give up on Australian hostages?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Where do you get this from?

You think Usman Kwaja of all people or Waleed Aly support Hamas taking hostages?

Im sure both men want those people freed as much as you or I do.

How do you know? Why don’t they say so? Nobody is.

 

[Jazny]

So no one at all should demand the release of the hostages because it’s no use? Israel should just give up on them, withdraw their troops and forget the whole thing?

Wait, what? Weren't we just talking about celebrities calling for the release of hostages? What has that got to do with how Israel should respond?