Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thread rules update:

From this point if you're going to make a connection between Islam and the crime rate, you need to demonstrate causation in your post. If you do not, I'm going to infract you for the inherent racism in the position you're taking.

 

[CM86]

You don’t need to be an expert on denominations to criticise religion. You’re just throwing sand in the way people always do when they are defending Islam.

“Catholicism is responsible for a lot of child sex abuse”

“Oh really? Even the Roman Catholics?”

“****ed if I know”

“Oof you really should do your research before you generalise”


It’s a way of talking people out of making plainly obvious and correct observations.

Interesting.
Lots of nuance.


Should we ban immigration of brown people from Muslim majority countries?

 

[sr36]

You don’t need to be an expert on denominations to criticise religion. You’re just throwing sand in the way people always do when they are defending Islam.

“Catholicism is responsible for a lot of child sex abuse”

“Oh really? Even the Roman Catholics?”

“****ed if I know”

“Oof you really should do your research before you generalise”


It’s a way of talking people out of making plainly obvious and correct observations.

Why do you think this story of the health workers resulted in this thread being bumped?

I'll give you a clue. It's not to criticise the 2 people involved. The target is 2 billion people. And those aiming for the target are reliant and relying upon ignorant generalisations about an extremely diverse 2 billion people.

 

[ElectricG]

Why do you think this story of the health workers resulted in this thread being bumped?

I'll give you a clue. It's not to criticise the 2 people involved. The target is 2 billion people. And those aiming for the target are reliant and relying upon ignorant generalisations about an extremely diverse 2 billion people.

Because it was a shocking and notable event which bolsters the argument that Islam is bad.

 

[ZEV]

If you put a Toyota badge on a Commodore, it becomes a Lexcen.

knew you were one of those guys that puts a chev badge oh his VE

 

[sr36]

Because it was a shocking and notable event which bolsters the argument that Islam is bad.

Murderous comments made by 2 randoms in response to a war strengthens the argument that Islam is bad?

Mammamia

In that case there's strong evidence that every religion on the planet is bad. Every significant ideology. Every country. We're all evil ...FFS.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

knew you were one of those guys that puts a chev badge oh his VE

The only commodore I've owned was a VC

 

[sr36]

Because it was a shocking and notable event which bolsters the argument that Islam is bad.

I haven't been saying that you need to understand the different branches of Islam, just that you need to understand that large groupings are diverse.

What you need to understand is:

if you look for anecdotes about Africans to spread that you think bolsters your view that blacks are bad, you are racist.

if you look for anecdotes about Jews to spread that you think bolsters your view that Jews are bad, you are anti-Semitic.

You look for anecdotes about Muslims to spread that you think bolsters your view that Islam is bad, you are Islamophobic.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Why would a Muslim terrorist target a socialist march?

A 24-year-old Afghan asylum seeker has been arrested over a suspected terrorist attack after a car was driven into a crowd of people in Munich, leaving at least 28 injured.​

​

The Mini Cooper rammed a group of protesters from Verdi, the main trade union for Germany’s public sector, as they were calling for more pay in schools and hospitals.​

​

Children were among the injured, as pictures from the scene showed a pram strewn across the ground alongside other debris.​

Munich latest: Afghan asylum seeker arrested after ‘terror attack’

An Afghan asylum seeker has been arrested over a suspected terror attack after a car was driven into a crowd of people in Munich, leaving at least 28 injured.

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[peetoo]

Most victims of Muslim extremist violence are themselves Muslims

 

[ElectricG]

I haven't been saying that you need to understand the different branches of Islam, just that you need to understand that large groupings are diverse.

What you need to understand is:

if you look for anecdotes about Africans to spread that you think bolsters your view that blacks are bad, you are racist.

if you look for anecdotes about Jews to spread that you think bolsters your view that Jews are bad, you are anti-Semitic.

You look for anecdotes about Muslims to spread that you think bolsters your view that Islam is bad, you are Islamophobic.

Nobody had to look for this story

 

[sr36]

Nobody had to look for this story

Do you think that you're not Islamophobic?

 

[ElectricG]

Do you think that you're not Islamophobic?

Well phobic implies some sort of irrational fear. I think Islam is bad for reasons I see as legitimate.

 

[sr36]

Well phobic implies some sort of irrational fear. I think Islam is bad for reasons I see as legitimate.

Being rational is irrelevant.

So like the Klum Klux Klan who think their racism was rational, or the Nazis who rationalised their Antisemitism, you think your Islamophobia is rational?

 

[ElectricG]

Being rational is irrelevant.

So like the Klum Klux Klan who think their racism was rational, or the Nazis who rationalised their Antisemitism, you think your Islamophobia is rational?

Come on man those are some pretty harsh parallels to draw over me not liking a religion.

 

[sr36]

Come on man those are some pretty harsh parallels to draw over me not liking a religion.

The kkk still exist. They're no longer powerful enough to string people up and would do big jail time if they did. So it's just some blokes who think they're rational posting prejudiced rubbish on the internet. Sound familiar? You should look them up. You'd probably get along. I suspect they show the same rationality to Islam as they do to Africa.

 

[Gough]

Christian nationalism is more of a threat in places like Australia and the US than Islam will ever be. People like Trump wrap themselves in religious imagery for a reason.

 

[Gough]

If George Pell had been an Imam born overseas Dutton would have been front and centre demanding he be deported, instead he worshipped at his funeral.

 

[ElectricG]

Christian nationalism is more of a threat in places like Australia and the US than Islam will ever be. People like Trump wrap themselves in religious imagery for a reason.

Please be more specific about which types of Christians before you get told off by a certain Collingwood fan.

 

[liz]

Please be more specific about which types of Christians before you get told off by a certain Collingwood fan.

You mean like referring not to Christians or Christianity but specifically to Christian nationalism? As Gough did?

 

[ElectricG]

You mean like referring not to Christians or Christianity but specifically to Christian nationalism? As Gough did?

I think he should’ve said Pentecostal Christian Nationalism. But even then, some May be unfairly painted with the same brush. I would like a list of the specific churches, or better yet, names of all individuals doing it before making a statement of any kind.

 

[sr36]

Please be more specific about which types of Christians before you get told off by a certain Collingwood fan.

He was specific ... Christian Nationalists ...

If you learn enough to be specific about which part of Islam you're criticising or learn to write your criticism in a way that doesn't criticise the whole of the Islamic world. I won't have an issue. But you have no intention of doing that. You target all of Islam.

I have no qualms about criticism of sections of Islam.

 

[ElectricG]

He was specific ... Christian Nationalists ...

If you learn enough to be specific about which part of Islam you're criticising or learn to write your criticism in a way that doesn't criticise the whole of the Islamic world. I won't have an issue. But you have no intention of doing that.

No qualms about criticism of sections of Islam.

That could mean anything though. I’m sure there are lots of Christian nationalists who just want to go to church, wave flags, and go to the occasional rodeo and do not support Trump or anyone else involved in this current authoritarian arc.

 

[liz]

I think he should’ve said Pentecostal Christian Nationalism. But even then, some May be unfairly painted with the same brush. I would like a list of the specific churches, or better yet, names of all individuals doing it before making a statement of any kind.

Maybe you could go and read a bit about Christian nationalism. It's not equivalent to Pentecostal forms of Christianity (in the sense that one is wholly contained within the other). It's a politic, social movement/philosophy/ideology that is not linked to specific churches.

 

[sr36]

That could mean anything though. I’m sure there are lots of Christian nationalists who just want to go to church, wave flags, and go to the occasional rodeo and do not support Trump or anyone else involved in this current authoritarian arc.

Nationalism is innately opposed to the teachings and views of an enormous number of churches. So criticising Christian Nationalists is specifically criticising the views of a particular section of the broader Christian community. It is not even close to ascribing the terrorist acts being pushed by some mosques to the entirety of Islam - which you do. You are even criticising those mosques who are strongly opposed to Islamic terrorism and those countless Muslims who have been killed due to being in opposition to proscribed terrorist groups and their views.

 

[ElectricG]

Nationalism is innately opposed to the teachings and views of an enormous number of churches. So criticising Christian Nationalists is specific. It is not even close to ascribing the terrorist acts being pushed by some mosques to the entirety of Islam. You are even criticising those mosques who are strongly opposed to Islamic terrorism and those countless Muslims who have been killed due to being in opposition to proscribed terrorist groups and their views.

But Christian nationalism has existed in multiple countries for a long time. It ranges from harmless little old ladies who have forever thought it’s good to have kids singing “god bless America” to people who think the US should be on some conquest to convert the entire Middle East to Christianity and using military force to achieve it. It’s not fair that the former should be called a “threat”.