Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

[Total Power]

So posts are deleted when they generalise about Islam, but we're going to allow this are we?

Whats generalising about this one? people who believe the bible and quran literally are unlikely to believe in evolution. There's plenty of them in this very thread.

"Conservative Christian groups like the Southern Baptists and Missouri Synod Lutherans believe that the theory of evolution is incompatible with the Bible’s teaching of creation in Genesis chapters 1 and 2 (Roman Catholics and mainline Christians see evolution as compatible with Christian faith). The groups who reject evolution do so because the Genesis creation accounts appear to have God creating the heavens and the earth in six 24-hour days."

 

[Fryman]

Whats generalising about this one?

Christian conservatives deny evolution as well.

What isn't generalising about it?

I would just like some consistency one way or the other.

 

[Total Power]

Christian conservatives deny evolution as well.

What isn't generalising about it?

I would just like some consistency one way or the other.

I said unlikely, it doesnt mean no Christian conversative believes in one.

I have criticised Islam plenty and i am still here, without bans or warning.

 

[Total Power]

Fantastic - here's a medal.

Maybe the rest of us who don't have their tongue up a mods arse have received different treatment to you.

Head to stormfront you can say whatever you like

 

[Frank Bunn]

Funny how almost all evolution deniers are religious fundamentalists without fail.

Christian conservatives deny evolution as well

That's true. But Christians who speak in favour of evolution don't get silenced by death threats.

An imam of an east London mosque has been subject to death threats and intimidation for expressing his views on evolution and women's right to refuse the veil.

Dr Usama Hasan, vice-chairman at Leyton mosque and a senior lecturer in engineering at Middlesex University, ceased delivering Friday prayers after 25 years of service when 50 Muslim protesters disrupted his lecture by handing out leaflets against him and shouting in the mosque for his execution.​

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/06/usama-hasan-london-imam-death-threats-evolution

 

[Total Power]

That's true. But Christians who speak in favour of evolution don't get silenced by death threats.

An imam of an east London mosque has been subject to death threats and intimidation for expressing his views on evolution and women's right to refuse the veil.

Dr Usama Hasan, vice-chairman at Leyton mosque and a senior lecturer in engineering at Middlesex University, ceased delivering Friday prayers after 25 years of service when 50 Muslim protesters disrupted his lecture by handing out leaflets against him and shouting in the mosque for his execution.​

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/06/usama-hasan-london-imam-death-threats-evolution

True but evolution doesnt go as far back as Reformation. Not so long ago atheism was not tolerated in the western world. During Inquisition they were killed as well.

During the early modern period, the term "atheist" was used as an insult and applied to a broad range of people, including those who held opposing theological beliefs, as well as those who had committed suicide, immoral or self-indulgent people, and even opponents of the belief in witchcraft.[10][11][15] Atheistic beliefs were seen as threatening to order and society by philosophers such as Thomas Aquinas. Lawyer and scholar Thomas More said that religious tolerance should be extended to all except those who did not believe in a deity or the immortality of the soul.[13] John Locke, a founder of modern notions of religious liberty, argued that atheists (as well as Catholics and Muslims) should not be granted full citizenship rights.[13]

During the Inquisition, several of those accused of atheism or blasphemy, or both, were tortured or executed. These included the priest Giulio Cesare Vanini who was strangled and burned in 1619 and the Polish nobleman Kazimierz Łyszczyński who was executed in Warsaw,[10][16][17] as well as Etienne Dolet, a Frenchman executed in 1546. Though heralded as atheist martyrs during the nineteenth century, recent scholars hold that the beliefs espoused by Dolet and Vanini are not atheistic in modern terms

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

The great man himself.

If you hold similar views to this former islamist, now progressive Muslim, you are labelled a bigot.

We need to be able to criticise a flawed ideology, be realistic about the amount of Muslims who hold troubling beliefs and prop people up, like Maajid, to hopefully spread his message to one day see a reformed and more progressive Muslim population.

It shocks me how some liberals (I'd consider myself one but the line is being moved constantly, so I'm not sure) can be so vocal about gay rights, women's issues and advocating a person's ability to practice their religion but refuse to acknowledge that the Muslims they are defending may hold the very beliefs they are outraged by (that crazy old tennis player).

 

[Established1870]

The great man himself.

If you hold similar views to this former islamist, now progressive Muslim, you are labelled a bigot.

We need to be able to criticise a flawed ideology, be realistic about the amount of Muslims who hold troubling beliefs and prop people up, like Maajid, to hopefully spread his message to one day see a reformed and more progressive Muslim population.

It shocks me how some liberals (I'd consider myself one but the line is being moved constantly, so I'm not sure) can be so vocal about gay rights, women's issues and advocating a person's ability to practice their religion but refuse to acknowledge that the Muslims they are defending may hold the very beliefs they are outraged by (that crazy old tennis player).
View attachment 385655

Hang on a minute. I agree with everything you just said but last time I checked, Albania, Bosnia and Albania Junior were all for gay rights. In fact those 3 countries (Turkey are really slipping here) are the only Muslim majority ones were Western ideals are believed more than Islamic ones. And this from an area ravaged by war and genocide only twenty years ago (I think Kosovo is ranked 9th for religious tolerance globally).

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

Hang on a minute. I agree with everything you just said but last time I checked, Albania, Bosnia and Albania Junior were all for gay rights. In fact those 3 countries (Turkey are really slipping here) are the only Muslim majority ones were Western ideals are believed more than Islamic ones. And this from an area ravaged by war and genocide only twenty years ago (I think Kosovo is ranked 9th for religious tolerance globally).

It's possible to have laws that protect LBGT+ rights as a country, but still have a Muslim population in which the majority view it as morally wrong. That doesn't mean that violence against minoritys is common place or that it's illegal.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

True but evolution doesnt go as far back as Reformation. Not so long ago atheism was not tolerated in the western world. During Inquisition they were killed as well.

During the early modern period, the term "atheist" was used as an insult and applied to a broad range of people, including those who held opposing theological beliefs, as well as those who had committed suicide, immoral or self-indulgent people, and even opponents of the belief in witchcraft.[10][11][15] Atheistic beliefs were seen as threatening to order and society by philosophers such as Thomas Aquinas. Lawyer and scholar Thomas More said that religious tolerance should be extended to all except those who did not believe in a deity or the immortality of the soul.[13] John Locke, a founder of modern notions of religious liberty, argued that atheists (as well as Catholics and Muslims) should not be granted full citizenship rights.[13]

During the Inquisition, several of those accused of atheism or blasphemy, or both, were tortured or executed. These included the priest Giulio Cesare Vanini who was strangled and burned in 1619 and the Polish nobleman Kazimierz Łyszczyński who was executed in Warsaw,[10][16][17] as well as Etienne Dolet, a Frenchman executed in 1546. Though heralded as atheist martyrs during the nineteenth century, recent scholars hold that the beliefs espoused by Dolet and Vanini are not atheistic in modern terms

I don't see the merit in comparing Islam with 15/1600s Christianity unless you're arguing that Muslims are justified in their archaic practices simply because it's still newer.

Can Christianity also gain a similar exemption when compared to Judaism?


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[Father Jack]

No one's defending every practice of Islam, some of us just see the incessant criticism of everything Islam as counter-productive and no different to the same misguided negative attitudes towards every other major immigrant group since the Anglo-Celts first set foot on these shores.

 

[Total Power]

I don't see the merit in comparing Islam with 15/1600s Christianity unless you're arguing that Muslims are justified in their archaic practices simply because it's still newer.

Can Christianity also gain a similar exemption when compared to Judaism?


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Not comparing, but you have to accept that after Reformation christianity was different, Islam is yet to undergo reformation being 700 years younger. The whole persecution of atheists shows that atheists were looked down on, considered evil and atheism was also considered blasphemous. Similar to Islam now. You cannot really compare evolution which came a lot later, we have no data to compare it with other than atheism. Scientists were often persecuted if their conclusions and findings did not match that of the Roman Catholic church.

There is no justification behind denying evolution which is beyond proven, however everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Calling it blasphemous is ridiculous but then again many scientists have suffered the same fate under Christianity.

 

[WeetBixKid]

new propaganda from al muhajirun - part of al nusrah, who we're indirectly supporting in syria btw.

 

[flashmanvc]

For anyone interested, this is still going on. I've seen the dude out the front of his house raking his lawn and he was wailing like a lunatic while doing that as well. I've heard his next door neighbours shout at him to shut up multiple times and it has no impact. They usually add "YOU MAD BASTARD" to their screams for him to be quiet these days. This morning I was doing some stuff out back and couldn't handle him after about 10 minutes. I brought out a portable CD player and chucked on DJ Shadow's "Endtroducing" at full volume. When the album was over, he was still going, his voice now all croaky from trying to compete with the music. He's a total nutjob.

Endtroducing is one of the best albums ever. Your neighbour must have real issues if he can resist the mournful beauty of "Midnight in a Perfect World".

Maybe give him a dose of Code 4109 by Krush next time.

 

[Fryman]

Not comparing, but you have to accept that after Reformation christianity was different, Islam is yet to undergo reformation being 700 years younger.

So until that reformation comes, would you like to see the % of Muslims in Australia increase or stay at the level we have now?

 

[skilts]

OMG...did you guys know!!??!?

View attachment 383269

This will be a very messy business.

 

[Kurve]

The great man himself.

If you hold similar views to this former islamist, now progressive Muslim, you are labelled a bigot.

We need to be able to criticise a flawed ideology, be realistic about the amount of Muslims who hold troubling beliefs and prop people up, like Maajid, to hopefully spread his message to one day see a reformed and more progressive Muslim population.

It shocks me how some liberals (I'd consider myself one but the line is being moved constantly, so I'm not sure) can be so vocal about gay rights, women's issues and advocating a person's ability to practice their religion but refuse to acknowledge that the Muslims they are defending may hold the very beliefs they are outraged by (that crazy old tennis player).
View attachment 385655

Hard to argue with his logic, Sam Harris is another I follow.

 

[JackOutback]

Using the courts to try and stop people from expressing their thoughts about him? Sounds like an attack on free speech.

 

[Kurve]

Using the courts to try and stop people from expressing their thoughts about him? Sounds like an attack on free speech.

The exercise of free speech offers no protection against the libel of a defamatory statement. I'd suggest Southern Law Poverty may even be guilty of hate speech in this case, or incitement in light of the fact many muslims who criticise Islam have ended up dead.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

Hard to argue with his logic, Sam Harris is another I follow.

Yeah Sam Harris is great, but no matter how knowledgeable or reasonable he is on the matter, he lacks credibility to some due to him being a white atheist.

I listen to his podcast to go to sleep due to his smooth and calm voice lol.

I've been meaning to read his and maajid's book for a while now. Have you?

 

[Kurve]

Yeah Sam Harris is great, but no matter how knowledgeable or reasonable he is on the matter, he lacks credibility to some due to him being a white atheist.

I listen to his podcast to go to sleep due to his smooth and calm voice lol.

I've been meaning to read his and maajid's book for a while now. Have you?

No, not read yet but I will. I've been following Maajid since stumbling over something he wrote when he was not long out of prison, it's been fascinating to see how far he's come.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

Ah k. Certainly a fascinating guy.

 

[fleabitten]

I found this interesting:

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2009/09/07/friendship-with-non-muslims-explaining-verse-551/

It's a supposedly liberal interpretation of a verse that is often taken to mean that Muslims should not befriend non-Muslims.

Question: Could you please explain ayat 5:51? Does this verse mean that we cannot have non-Muslim friends? That would seem somewhat strange, because after all, men are allowed to marry non-Muslims. Why would we be able to marry them but not befriend them?

Answer: Wa alaikum salam wa rahmatullahi wa baraktuh,

May Allah Most High reward you for seeking the meanings behind the verses of the Book of Allah, the Qur’an. Thank you also, for asking about a verse that has great implications for Muslims in the West, a verse that is often misquoted, misconstrued and misunderstood by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. In the verse, Allah says:

“Oh you who be believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians as protecting allies [lit. awliya – plural of wali, mistranslated often here as “friends” ]! Each of them are protecting allies within their own. And the one amongst you who turns to them as protecting allies, then he is one of them. And truly, Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.” [al-Quran, 5:51]

Right away, I’d like to establish that there is no problem with Muslims keeping casual friendships and cordial acquaintances with people of different faiths, as long as those people do not oppose or dislike Islam and Muslims, do not engage in or wrongly influence Muslims towards immoral behaviour, and are not unjust and oppressive to anyone, especially Muslims.

So, casual friendship is okay, as long as they're not opposed to Islam and adhere to Islamic moral codes. How is this compatible with a multi-cultural society? Basically, if you're gay or you like a drink and you have Muslim friends, they are either not really your friends or they are not really Muslims. I've had quite a few friends who were the latter, but they never pretended "Muslim" was anything more than a label to them.

10% of the people in my community believe that the other 90% are impure. Many of those 10% send their kids to schools where they will not mingle with anyone from the other 90% until they are adults. For the female half of that 10%, some will never mingle. They'll be married off and spend their entire public life in Australia draped in a sheet.

The middle and upper classes get Muslim doctors and engineers for neighbours while working class areas get 3rd world peasants in high numbers. We're already peasants here in these parts and working class Aussie culture is pretty much the antithesis of Islamic culture. According to even liberal translations of the Koran, the 10% are not allowed to be friends with the majority of the people whose neighbourhoods they are moving into.

The racists and bigots might have started making noise early but as the quality of life decreases in certain suburbs, more and more people are nodding their heads in agreement. Not just white people either. I have a Koori mate who has started posting some seriously anti-Islam stuff lately (going much further than I would...it would be fair to call some of his posts bigoted). Many Indians and Filipinos (the other two largest migrant groups in this area) are expressing anti-Islam sentiment.

Some Muslims seem to be almost antagonizing the non-Muslim population, like my nutty neighbour or the dude driving around with a big picture of a sword-wielding Islamic warrior and the word Fateh (conqueror) blazed across the back of his car, or the huddles of old men that stare grimly at my wife and daughters if they are showing too much skin at the local shopping centre, or the families of twelve doing their shopping with their kids running wild, getting in the way across three aisles at once. Tensions are rising and I really don't know what can be done about it now. I would love to be able to just move, but I can't afford any nicer areas that are still in range of my kids' schools.

 

[Gough]

Tensions are rising and I really don't know what can be done about it now. I would love to be able to just move, but I can't afford any nicer areas that are still in range of my kids' schools.

Modern rightwing politics says that's all your own fault anyway.

 

[fleabitten]

Modern rightwing politics says that's all your own fault anyway.

I'm not a fan or follower of right wing politics, modern or traditional.