Why women play the rough/risky game of AF? How can we get more?/Improve the AFLW? Any barriers?

[Teen Wolf]

Don't be disengenuous.
You know I was referring to Prof. K. Norton, the AFL's own expert, who was appointed to analyse game styles/injury rates etc. He has stated that, in the 1980's, in the VFL/AFL, the average no. of tackles was 40 per game (20 per side). It has increased to 140 per game (70 per side), with some games in recent years up to 192 per game.

I knew you had to be referring to outdated and irrelevant statistics, hence I corrected you.

I enjoy c. 70-80% of AFLW games, they are usually good spectacles- but I want them to greatly improve as a spectacle; & also, more importantly, for players' safety.

Convoluted answer to a very simple question. Next time just be honest and say "I didn't watch it so I have no idea."

Don't deflect from the female AF very high & very serious knee injury & concussion rates.
Why have you not commented on these crucial issues?

What, like this post from a few weeks ago, which you gave a Like for? And somehow, between the two of us, I'm the one being disingenuous...

I assume you accept these high injury rates must be overcome.

That means you're the third poster on this board today to make an incorrect assumption about what I think.

I don't put AFLW's high rates of concussion and knee injuries in the same bracket of important things which must be overcome. And thankfully so, since I'm of the opinion the latter by-and-large can't be overcome--just one of the raw deals women drew in the biological lottery, that's why it's only fair for them to have their own football leagues.

 

[BringBackTorps]

I knew you had to be referring to outdated and irrelevant statistics, hence I corrected you.

You are incorrect, the statistics from the AFL's own expert, Prof. K. Norton, are very relevant.
The current AFL is a tackleball/stoppages, congested, low scoring mess. A very large no. of MSM AFL experts have stated their dissatisfaction with the post 2004 game style- which I have noted several times on BF.

Convoluted answer to a very simple question

Not convoluted at all.
Why are you so studiously avoiding the importance of the AFL's Charter Of The Game ie the way the game should be played?

I don't put AFLW's high rates of concussion and knee injuries in the same bracket of important things which must be overcome

What do you mean?

And thankfully so, since I'm of the opinion the latter by-and-large can't be overcome--just one of the raw deals women drew in the biological lottery, that's why it's only fair for them to have their own football leagues.

No one is disputing that women should have their own football leagues; nor is there any dispute that, due to biological reasons, women are much more prone to serious knee injuries & concussion.

The crucial issue is we must reduce the rate of these serious injuries- do you agree?

Why did you not address the issue of the 60 Minutes program covering CTE/concussion etc, its highlighting of S. Tuck & AF etc.
Do you agree that this is a major heath issue, which must be reduced significantly, asap?

Do you agree that, in GR AF also, the congestion & high nos. of tackle/bump/collision/push injuries must be reduced?

You have also not addressed my comments of lightweight players in GR AF, having less opportunity to find space, in the heavily congested conditions-why not?
It is dangerous, & a major problem.

 

[Teen Wolf]

You are incorrect, the statistics are very relevant.
The current AFL is a tackleball/stoppages, congested, low scoring mess. A very large no. of MSM AFL experts have stated their dissatisfaction with the post 2004 game style- which I have noted several times on BF.

Nothing to do with AFLW. Provide some AFLW stats to support your earlier claim about AFLW, or apologise for lying.

Why are you so studiously avoiding the importance of the AFL's Charter Of The Game ie the way the game should be played?

I'm avoiding it in the same way I've supposedly avoided commenting on injury rates before.

What do you mean?

The head is one part of the human body, the knees are another.

The crucial issue is we must reduce the rate of these serious injuries- do you agree?

I've already told you: No. Reducing the risk of concussion is a crucial issue. Reducing knee injuries is, at most, a moderately important issue.

Why did you not address the issue of the 60 Minutes program covering CTE/concussion etc, its highlighting of S. Tuck & AF etc.

I enjoyed 70-80% of it.

Do you agree that, in GR AF also, the congestion & high nos. of tackle/bump/collision/push injuries must be reduced?

You have also not addressed my comments of lightweight players in GR AF, having less opportunity to find space, in the heavily congested conditions-why not?
It is dangerous, & a major problem.

I didn't sign up to this forum to discuss grassroots football (especially with you, in the wee hours of a Monday morning), sorry.

 

[jatz14]

Don't be disengenuous.
You know I was referring to Prof. K. Norton, the AFL's own expert, who was appointed to analyse game styles/injury rates etc. He has stated that, in the 1980's, in the VFL/AFL, the average no. of tackles was 40 per game (20 per side). It has increased to 140 per game (70 per side)- with some games in recent years up to 192 per game.

The current game styles are crap, but the "Stand" Rule has improved the AFL.

As you know, the current tackleball/stoppages' crap style are contrary to the AFL's Own Charter Of The Game ie the desire to have a reasonably freeflowing style, played in an attacking fashion, long kicking/high marking, good scoring, & a lot on one-on-one contests. The post 2004, big interchange, constant flooding, modern game is the antithesis of this.



I enjoy c. 70-80% of AFLW games, they are usually relatively good spectacles- but I want them to greatly improve as a spectacle; & also, more importantly, for players' safety.
To promote the AFLW (which= promoting GR female AF), I want the AFLW game styles (& AFL) to conform with the AFL's Charter Of The Game.

Don't deflect from the female AF very high & very serious knee injury & concussion rates.
Why have you not commented on these crucial issues?
Did you see Nine's "60 Minutes" program, last week, on concussion/CTE etc. type injuries, S. Tuck & D. Frawley etc.

I assume you accept these high injury rates must be overcome.

They won't with the tackleball/stoppages' crap- which is also rife in jnr AF from U16 onwards, & GR snr AF.
Light weight players, with c. 34 players in c. 1/2 the ground regularly, cant find, & run into, space (as they were once able)- & are being injured/bashed out of the game. it's an absolute DISGRACE!

If I attended a game that had 40 tackles, I would want my money back. Because it would be obvious nobody gave a * or was in the remotest way trying. I've seen Ozkick games where they're not allowed to tackle, have more tackles than that.

 

[BringBackTorps]

I didn't sign up to this forum to discuss grassroots football (especially with you, in the wee hours of a Monday morning), sorry.

It's a shame you do not wish to answer my questions, by addressing the issues in them.

Downplaying or ignoring the issues of massive constant congestion, massive tackleball/stoppages' crap, recent record rates of collision/tackle etc. injuries, & other serious injuries in the AFLW, AFL, & GR AF reflects poorly on you.
These injury issues have fundamental significance for AF, are damaging &, most, importantly, have potential life changing repercussions for elite & GR players.

The 60 Minutes program on CTE was widely advertised ("What Every Parent Needs To Know") & discussed in the MSM.

It is being reported in the MSM this morning that D. Pearce has knee ligament damage, & is likely to miss the Finals' series- tragic if the tackle ends her career.

Because it would be obvious nobody gave a fu** or was in the remotest way trying.

You know that is not rue.

The CTE issue requires the AFL to thoroughly investigate it, & remedy it as much as is reasonably possible.

Concussion CTE: Shane Tucks sister wanted to know what caused her brothers death

Concussion is a reality of contact sport, and we've gotten all too used to seeing it.

9now.nine.com.au

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. Yarra Council (inner NE Melb.), controlled by the Greens & ALP Left Councillors, is proposing a MASSIVE increase in local sporting clubs' fees, for ground & pavilion useage.

For Fitzroy FC, an amateur club in the VAFA, the 2019 Council fees (for 4 ovals, inc. Brunswick St Oval & Victoria Park) totalled $6576. The Council wants to increase them in 2021 by 379%, to $31500!

Yarra Council announced the increased GR fees' policy late on Friday- probably to minimise its exposure (& public backlash) in the MSM cycle.

We Need Your Support

null

www.fitzroyfc.com.au

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies

www.heraldsun.com.au

("Yarra Council...Massive Fee Hike Cripple Local Clubs": Behind a paywall- can anyone open, & post here please)



Tweet responses (inc. from The Age R. Hinds, ABC R. Willingham, Radio 3AW D. Dunleavy, L. Ablett,, & [ex AFL player/coach] Rob Shaw) to Fitzroy FC twitter on this issue

https://twitter.com/Fitzroy_FC?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1376124253737639940%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

This will cause local clubs to raise player subs. & other costs- which will cause many female & male players being unable to pay, & play.






2. In contrast to Yarra Council, Penrith Council, in Sydney's WS, has announced it was waiving all ground hire fees for 2020 & 2021- due to the covid-related financial burdens on all GR sports.

Penrith City Council’s Field Fee relief for Football clubs - Football NSW

Football NSW today applauded the decision by Penrith City Council to waive ground hire costs not just for the 2020 season but also the upcoming 2021 Grassroots Football season in a fantastic gesture that will allow clubs more time to rebuild after the negative impacts of COVID-19 this year. On...

footballnsw.com.au

 

[jatz14]

It's a shame you do not wish to answer my questions, by addressing the issues in them.

Downplaying or ignoring the issues of massive constant congestion, tackleball/stoppages' crap, recent record rates of collision/tackle etc. injuries, & other serious injuries in the AFLW, AFL, & GR AF reflects poorly on you.
These injury issues have fundamental significance for AF, are damaging &, most, importantly, have potential life changing repercussions for elite & GR players.

The 60 Minutes program on CTE was widely advertised ("What Every Parent Needs To Know") & discussed in the MSM.

It is being reported in the MSM this morning that D. Pearce has knee ligament damage, & is likely to miss the Finals' series- tragic if the tackle ends her career.


You know that is not rue.

The CTE issue requires the AFL to thoroughly investigate it, & remedy it as much as is reasonably possible.

Concussion CTE: Shane Tucks sister wanted to know what caused her brothers death

Concussion is a reality of contact sport, and we've gotten all too used to seeing it.

9now.nine.com.au

The only way to prevent the sort of injury Daisy got is to prevent all contact. Even that wouldn't prevent it, you would have to stop running too.

So using her injury to justify your arguments is disengenious.

Also deceptive is using data from men's footy to make arguments over women's footy.

AFLW has not had a dramatic increase in contact.

Women's footy has always been more congested. AFLW is less congested than most female footy, and it hasn't become more congested over its short life, it's become less congested, and thus MORE dangerous.

There are less turtle tackles where a player barely moving gets immediately wrapped up by tacklers also barely moving, and we are seeing more high intensity contact in more open play.



On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jatz14]

My prediction for the future.

If current rule changes remain successful in opening up play and reducing stoppages, serious injuries will rise, not fall.

And if they seriously limit interchanges to induce fatigue, they will rise again.



On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BringBackTorps]

If I attended a game that had 40 tackles, I would want my money back. Because it would be obvious nobody gave a fu** or was in the remotest way trying.

In the 1980's in the VFL/AFL (when, according to Prof. K. Norton, each team averaged c. 20 tackles per game), & when massive interchange/4 on the bench (now 5)/ congestion was not an issue (cf post 2004 AFL), did players "give a fu*"?
And were "they trying"?

Do you agree the AFL needs to significantly reduce head knocks, & other serious injuries, for men & women? If so, how?

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. SEN Melb. Radio 1116 T. Watson & G. Lyon program 30.3

As a Seven major employee & Seven has the Rights, Watson is very rarely savage on the AFL. IMO, he is compelled to be circumspect in his comments on the AFL (although he has been publicly critical of the congested, scrappy, low scoring tackleball/stoppages' crap in the AFL- but not AFLW).

On 30.3, however, he was very frank in his criticism of the AFL, re S. Reid only being given a 2wk suspension for his "picking-off" N. Fyfe, & concussing him. Watson said

"The Match Review Officer, & by extension the AFL, are hypocrites"- then explains his reasons of why Reid should have received much more than 2 weeks; & the AFL policy is not really "making the head sacrosanct".

"This was an injustice": Watson slams penalty for Reid's bump on Fyfe

Tim Watson says the MRO and AFL have missed an opportunity to show how seriously they take head knocks.

www.sen.com.au

For the AFL, concussion/constant head knock issues are, arguably, the BIGGEST problems facing the AFL- and GR also, where head medical assessments, diagnosis, treatment etc. are far below what AFL players receive.

For the AFLW & GR female AF, concussion/constant head knocks, due to biological issues, are a much more worrying & severe problem.
The AFL must act forcefully & harshly, on these issues.

Dangerfield & Reid, to greatly reduce head high bumps in the AFL & GR AF, should have been given a minimum of 5 & 6 wks respectively for a first offence. Real deterrants are needed.
Also, the Order Off rule should be introduced for bumps/sling tackles/punches, which cause heavy contact to the head. Most team sports have an Order off rule

The grossly overpaid ($10.8m for a Not For profit org., highest in the world, outside of NFP's in the USA) AFL Executives are incompetent- & are damaging the game.




2. Other MSM experts are very dissatisfied with these suspensions, wanting them to be greater.

eg On SEN's Whateley program, D. King said the bans should have been greater.

Whateley also said the AFL is failing the game on concussion, & the bans should have been greater.

"Concussion is a Severe outcome...It's so disappointing...All that we have come to know about brain injuries"" ie the concussions should not be graded as "High", but "Severe"- & thus having longer suspensions.

(Go to 30.3- then scroll down to "Gerard Surveys The Football Landscape. 1 min.45 secs. - 2 mins 45 secs.)

 

[jatz14]

In the 1980's in the VFL/AFL (when, according to Prof. K. Norton, each team averaged c. 20 tackles per game), & when massive interchange/4 on the bench (now 5)/ congestion was not an issue (cf post 2004 AFL), did players "give a fu*"?
And were "they trying"?

Do you agree the AFL needs to significantly reduce head knocks, & other serious injuries, for men & women? If so, how?

The NRL introduced rules to open up play, and introduce fatigue.

They have had the worst start to a season injury wise, ever. Let's do that.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[cfc to aufc]

Mornings with Matt White

Matt White takes you through the morning on 1170 SEN Sydney.

www.sen.com.au

• Dr. Christopher Nowinski | 1/4/21 re concussion

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. SEN Melb. Radio Whateley Interview with D. Pearce 1.4.21

Whateley asked D. Pearce when she believed was the best time to run the AFLW.

Pearce replied, slightly paraphrasing

"I used to think play it in winter, traditional time slot, with double headers with AFL matches. The women's game has lost a bit in the last few weeks [because AFL has dominated MSM attention]. It must be an issue with AFL HQ, to get the credit AFLW deserves, we are competing against our own product.

I've changed now, I see the benefit of clean air. It should start in November. Summer offers something different, I like the vibe of it. Finish the AFLW grand Final a week before the men's game ( I'm not sure if she means Rd. 1 of the AFL- or before the start of the first practice match).
The commerciality of the AFLW depends on starting much earlier, you can feel the AFLW has been lost for the last few weeks (all my emphases)".

Whateley | 1116 SEN

Combining authoritative journalism and sharp-eyed analysis with emotive broadcasting, Gerard Whateley is a unique voice in the coverage of sport in Australia. He'll bring all that and more to SEN mornings.

www.sen.com.au

(Scroll to 1.4 "Interview With Daisy Pearce", then go to 12 mins.55 secs- 16 mins.20 secs.)

The AFLW starting in Nov., with nearly all matches starting no sooner than 6 pm (to alleviate heat issues, which reduce skill execution) in balmy summer conditions (& I have a few cleansing ales) & GF finishing before Rd1 of the AFL- I can hardly wait.
Hopefully next year.

When the AFLW obtains clean air, the AFLW will get greater crowds, ratings, MSM coverage, & it will further turbocharge female GR AF growth- & the increasing "commerciality" of the AFLW will hasten the professionalisation of the AFLW, & players' pro aspirations.




2.

The NRL introduced rules to open up play, and introduce fatigue.

They have had the worst start to a season injury wise, ever. Let's do that.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

No.

For c. 100 years, VFL/AFL onballers were very regularly fatigued, & had all their rests in the pockets (no interchange, a US concept; & usually only 2 on the bench, but were only subs.)- NO noted increase in injury rates.

The AFL statistics from the 1980's to the present are, obviously, the stats that Prof. Norton, & others, have examined re the record increase in tackles per game, & the record tackling/bumping/pushing/collision injuries.
You have conveniently chosen the 3 weeks start of another code, to draw erroneous conclusions re their relevance to the AFL.

Correlation of 3 weeks of the NRL does not equal causation.
Also, the NRL have made major changes to their rules in 2020, with the 6 again tackle rule- & other rule changes.

I, a huge majority of MSM AFL experts, the AFL, Seven/Foxtel executives, & most fans dislike or despise the congested, scrappy, low scoring, few one-on-ones, record stoppages & tackleball crap that have existed in the AFL from 2005 onwards (but some improvements in 2021).
We want to see the skills of AF, not rugby crap.

I'm glad you are one of the few who enjoy the thrill of tackles, stoppages, & ball-ups. Good for you.
Do you have shares in physiotherapy companies, or medical services companies?

 

[jatz14]

1. SEN Melb. Radio Whateley Interview with D. Pearce 1.4.21

Whateley asked D. Pearce when she believed was the best time to run the AFLW.

Pearce replied, slightly paraphrasing

"I used to think play it in winter, traditional time slot, with double headers with AFL matches. The women's game has lost a bit in the last few weeks [because AFL has dominated MSM attention]. It must be an issue with AFL HQ, to get the credit AFLW deserves, we are competing against our own product.

I've changed now, I see the benefit of clean air. It should start in November. Summer offers something different, I like the vibe of it. Finish the AFLW grand Final a week before the men's game ( I'm not sure if she means Rd. 1 of the AFL- or before the start of the first practice match).
The commerciality of the AFLW depends on starting much earlier, you can feel the AFL (all my emphases)".

Whateley | 1116 SEN

Combining authoritative journalism and sharp-eyed analysis with emotive broadcasting, Gerard Whateley is a unique voice in the coverage of sport in Australia. He'll bring all that and more to SEN mornings.

www.sen.com.au

(Scroll to 1.4 "- then go to 12 mins.55 secs- 16 mins.20 secs.)Interview With D. Pearce"

The AFLW starting in Nov., with nearly all matches starting no sooner than 6 pm (to alleviate heat issues) in balmy summer conditions, & GF finishing before Rd1 of the AFL- I can hardly wait.
Hopefully next year.

If the clean air AFLW obtains greater crowds, ratings, MSM coverage, it will further turbocharge female GR AF growth- & the increasing "commerciality" of the AFLW will hasten the professionalisation of the AFLW, & players' pro aspirations.




2.

No.

For c. 100 years, VFL/AFL onballers were very regularly fatigued, & had all their rests in the pockets (no interchange, a US concept)- no noted increase in injury rates.

The AFL statistics from the 1980's to the present are, obviously, the stats, that Prof. Norton, & others, have examined re the record increase in tackles per game, & tackling/bumping/pushing/collision injuries.
You have conveniently chosen the 3 weeks start of another code, to draw erroneous conclusions re their relevance to the AFL.

Correlation of 3 weeks of the NRL does not equal causation.
Also, the NRL have made major changes to their rules in 2020, with the 6 again tackle rule- & other rule changes.

I, a huge majority of MSM AFL experts, the AFL, Seven/Foxtel executives, & most fans dislike or despise the congested, scrappy, low scoring, few one-on-ones, record stoppages' tackleball crap that have existed in the AFL from 2005 onwards (but some improvements in 2021).
We want to see the skills of AF, not rugby crap.

I'm glad you are one of the few who enjoy the thrill of tackles, stoppages, & ball-ups. Good for you.
Do you have shares in physiotherapy companies, or medical services companies?

If I had a share in physiotherapy companies, I would want open, fast, high energy impact, hamstring tearing football.

Your assuming that the solution to slow boring stoppage footy, and head knocks and high injury rates are the same.

I don't believe they are. The footy looks better so far this year, but I think we will find at the end of the year, like with the NRL, serious injuries will be higher, not lower.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. SEN Melb. Radio Whateley program 6.4

Fill-in Host S. Hargraves said C. Wilson, on Footy Classified 5.4, said the AFLW GF must be played in clear air ie not concurrent with an AFL game.

AFLW expert S. Olle agrees with Wilson.
Olle also wants the AFLW to start much earlier, & to finish the AFLW season before the men's AFL starts. S. Hargraves said "I agree".

Olle said, for every AFLW season, the average AFLW skills improve as each season gets to the end- but this "is lost" for the MSM interest, due to the start of the overlapping AFL.

Whateley | 1116 SEN

Combining authoritative journalism and sharp-eyed analysis with emotive broadcasting, Gerard Whateley is a unique voice in the coverage of sport in Australia. He'll bring all that and more to SEN mornings.

www.sen.com.au

SEN Melb. Radio Whateley program 7.4

Fill-in Host C. Luke said the 2021 AFLW Prelim. Finals, & GF, should be played in clear air ie not concurrent with AFL games- as these Finals deserve maximum MSM focus & coverage.


2.WWOS C. De Silva 20.7.20

L. Matthews (& most MSM experts) is very critical of the ugly, scrappy low scoring, stoppages-filled congestion in the AFL.

This is obviously a bigger problem in the AFLW, as players are poorer (for now) in disposal efficiency (&, of course, women will never be able to kick or handball as far- adding to congestion & low scoring).

Matthews said "Maybe reducing interchange back to 20 might do that [reduce congestion], because at least you have 18 against 18 instead of 22 against 22".

Matthews unleashes on AFL game play 'disaster'

Labels those who resist change as 'flat earthers'

wwos.nine.com.au

We should keep the AFLW at 16 for now- but maybe 15 on the field maybe considered by c.2026, if congestion & very low scoring remains a major problem in the AFLW. Goals are needed for valuable advertising breaks also- more Rights' $ for the AFLW/ability to offer players pro careers.
Also, AFLW benches should have 2 players only. There, will, therefore, be more skilled players on the ground- with fewer players with poor skills getting a game in the AFLW. The standard would rise.

 

[owen87]

Also, AFLW benches should have 2 players only. There, will, therefore, be more skilled players on the ground- with fewer players with poor skills getting a game in the AFLW. The standard would rise.

This line gets trotted out regularly, with no real fact behind it.

You pretty consistently play the "back in my day footy was better" line, whilst neglecting there being very, very good reasons why football will never go back to what you want it to be.

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. Many female teams are considering departing from the AF Away White knicks' tradition of male teams. This is because many females, when having their period, are distracted by wearing white pants, which may effect their skills & playing enjoyment- & even their desire to play the game.
Female teams, for all H & A games, should & will wear dark coloured knicks.

Many GR clubs in Melb. have already adopted this policy for their female teams. I am surprised the policy has not been introduced universally- when done so, it will increase female GR nos.

Prof. Clare Hanlon, Victoria Uni., conducted a survey of over 700 sporty females- c.64% do not like wearing white shorts.

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

(Can anyone open, & post here)

Uncomfortable uniforms deter girls from playing sport, study finds

National research shows schoolgirls want to wear shorts and T-shirts when playing sport and not skirts, with uncomfortable clothing a factor in turning some away from sport.

www.abc.net.au

2.

This line gets trotted out regularly, with no real fact behind it.

No real facts?

If 3 AFLW players, who have lesser skills, are not playing (because the bench is reduced to 2, from 5), then, logically, the average standard rises ;& there will be, generally, more free flowing play, & more goals kicked. Both are essential elements to maximise the appeal of the AFLW (And the AFL, & GR AF).

Prof. Norton's (the AFL's own expert) studies have shown tackles have gone from 40 per game in the 80's to 140 per game recently- & tackle/bump/push/collision injuries are at record highs.

Fans, generally, want to see the skills of our great Australian game- not constant tackling, ball-ups, & the low scoring scrappy garbage.
The AFLPA would probably like 10 min. qtrs, 8 on the bench, & a season break of 3 mnths pa- more pay, for less work.

You pretty consistently play the "back in my day footy was better" line, whilst neglecting there being very, very good reasons why football will never go back to what you want it to be.

I have never said all games were better to watch prior to 2005- but, certainly, a much higher % were (& Seven executives, & a big majority of MSM experts etc., have expressed a similar view).
There were plenty of games which were shockers from the 1970's to 2005- particularly games which were wind (limited grand stand protection then) & rain effected, often on muddy, poorly drained, grounds. N covered DS existed, pre 2002.

The AFL also opposes, as per its Charter Of The Game, the scrappy, low scoring, congested tackleball crap in the AFL (& expressed a directive to coaches early in 2018 it wanted a more free flowing & higher scoring style in the AFLW).

Rule changes are necessary to restore the game to its former glory.
The "Stand" Rule is an improvement, but the 5 man bench is a retrograde change- we must revert, in the AFL, to 18 vs. 18, 2 subs. on the bench (interchange only allowed for HIA & Blood Rule)

In the Draft, unless a potential draftee can kick & handball, at an elite level, on both feet & both hands respectively, they cannot be drafted.
If a potential draftee is only an elite athlete, without the above elite left & right skills, he can be politely told to f... off.

 

[owen87]

As usual, you ignore the point and go off on a rant.

No real facts?

No, you've produced no real facts.

If 3 AFLW players, who have lesser skills, are not playing (because the bench is reduced to 2, from 5), then, logically, the average standard rises ;& there will be, generally, more free flowing play, & more goals kicked. Both are essential elements to maximise the appeal of the AFLW (And the AFL, & GR AF).

No.

They'll be more fatigued. Leading to a reduction in skills.

Also, who quantifies that players 19 & 20 on the bench are more skilled than 21 & 22?

Prof. Norton's (the AFL's own expert) studies have shown tackles have gone from 40 per game in the 80's to 140 per game recently- & tackle/bump/push/collision injuries are at record highs.

Yes. Players have learnt that tackling helps win games. Well done.

Fans, generally, want to see the skills of our great Australian game- not constant tackling, ball-ups, & the low scoring scappy garbage.

Fans want to see competitive games. If I was watching my team play and not tackle, I'd be furious. See St Kilda fans on the weekend after losing both the disposal AND tackle counts.

certainly, a much higher % were

Quantify this.

The AFL also opposes, as per its Charter Of The Game, the scrappy, low scoring, congested tackleball crap in the AFL (& expressed a directive to coaches early in 2018 it wanted a more free flowing & higher scoring style in the AFLW).

You use this constantly, it's irrelevant. The AFL wants more scores, because Seven & Fox want more ads.

In the Draft, unless a potential draftee can kick & handball, at an elite level, on both feet & both hands respectively, they cannot be drafted.

Says who?

If a potential draftee is only an elite athlete, without the above elite left & right skills, he can be politely told to f... off.

If the elite athlete is what wins the game, they'll be the ones drafted.

Sorry your nostalgia is irrelevant.

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. Despite the average standard increasing again, total crowds in the AFLW (not inc. the GF) were only 120k in 2021- well down on previous years; & much more than the 16%+ drop in AFL crowds in 2021.

I suspect the adult entry charges were party responsible., & covid fears, obviously still exist

This issue must be analysed, & addressed- the AFLW is the main force driving female GR AF.








2. The NSW North Coast comp. covers the area from Port Macquarie almost to Byron Bay.

Until c.15 years ago, it was a barren area for GR AF- but is having good growth now, for males & females.

Junior age group profile: Youth Girls
Author Name: pault | Posted 5:37 pm on Thursday 15th April, 2021

How is 2021 shaping up?

The Youth Girls (U18) age group will have five teams competing in 2021 which sees it return to the pre-COVID levels of 2018 and 2019.

Youth Girls footy is one of the fastest growing age groups in our region and throughout the state with girls attracted by the physicality, fitness, & welcoming attitude of people in club land (all my emphases).

The teams

• Bellingen Bulldogs
• Coffs Harbour Breakers
• Grafton Tigers
• Port Macquarie Magpies
• Sawtell Toormina Saints

3.

No, you've produced no real facts.

You are incorrect.
I have provided, in previous posts, the names of dozens of AF experts who have said & been quoted in the MSM they are concerned about the congested, scrappy, low scoring tackleball/stoppages crap. This issue is regularly discussed in the MSM, & amongst AFL officials also, for c.15 years.
In fact, apart from a few coaches (who like this style ,as it makes the game more of a coaches' game, & more jobs in the overpaid & overstaffed Football Dept.'s), there is virtually universal dislike of the congested crap amongst MSM AF experts.

Prof. Norton has also stated that tackling/bumping/pushing/collision injuries are at record high levels in the AFL- a fact you continuously ignore.
I note you make no comments on the Concussion issues challenging AF.

I have also cited the AFL's Charter Of The Game. The post 2004 tackleball/stoppages crap is the antithesis of this.

You just express your views & feelings that you like the crap. You never provide any facts or links supporting your like of the congested crap.
What do you know that the experts don't?

They'll be more fatigued. Leading to a reduction in skills.

Fatigue is normal in sport, & players will learn to pace themselves & stay in their positions more. The amount of running will be reduced with fewer/no interchange- so tackles/bumps/collisions will be less forceful. Onballers will rest in the pockets- as they did for 100+ years!

Also, who quantifies that players 19 & 20 on the bench are more skilled than 21 & 22?

Serious?

And you do understand the fans want to see the stars on the field, not on the bench.

Players have learnt that tackling helps win games.

I suggest you read a few books on the history of the game.
Historians all agree that the 4 things that give AF superiority over other sports, from a fan's perspective, were:-

. long, accurate kicking from c. 1880 (balls from then had rubber bladders, & were symetrical in shape)

. high marking, from 1880's.

. full forwards regularly kicking bags (from c. 1907 onwards, D. Lee etc.).

. one-on-one contests, especially between the stars (when the game quickened & opened up more, from c. 1920).

All 4 are in decline in the post 2004 AFL.

AF is not rugby, & fans have never found tackling the major appeal of AF.

Females are FAR more susceptible than males to serious knee injuries, requiring often up to 12 months to rehab before they can play again; & are more prone to concussion also. Both are often caused by tackles.

If I was watching my team play and not tackle, I'd be furious.

Of course, this is not in dispute.
It is the amount of tackling. In GR AF, light weights are being smashed, & injured-constant flooding has reduced their traditional "space".
This is the shame that rests on the AFL's shoulders, by allowing massive interchange, & more than 2 on the bench.

You use this constantly, it's irrelevant. The AFL wants more scores, because Seven & Fox want more ads.

You have displayed your lack of understanding, you should listen to expert opinion. AF, from 1858 (no offside rule etc.) was conceived as an attacking game, & scoring is important. Virtually all AF experts all agree on this.

 

[cfc to aufc]

1. Despite the average standard increasing again, total crowds in the AFLW (not inc. the GF) were only 120k in 2021- well down on previous years; & much more than the 16%+ drop in AFL crowds in 2021.

I suspect the adult entry charges were party responsible., & covid fears, obviously still exist

This issue must be analysed, & addressed- the AFLW is the main force driving female GR AF.








2. The NSW North Coast comp. covers the area from Port Macquarie almost to Byron Bay.

Until c.15 years ago, it was a barren area for GR AF- but is having good growth now, for males & females, off a low base.

Junior age group profile: Youth Girls
Author Name: pault | Posted 5:37 pm on Thursday 15th April, 2021

How is 2021 shaping up?

The Youth Girls (U18) age group will have five teams competing in 2021 which sees it return to the pre-COVID levels of 2018 and 2019.

Youth Girls footy is one of the fastest growing age groups in our region and throughout the state with girls attracted by the physicality, fitness, & welcoming attitude of people in club land (all my emphases).

The teams

• Bellingen Bulldogs
• Coffs Harbour Breakers
• Grafton Tigers
• Port Macquarie Magpies
• Sawtell Toormina Saints

3.

You are incorrect.
I have provided, in previous posts, the names of dozens of AF experts who have said & been quoted in the MSM they are concerned about the congested, scrappy, low scoring tackleball/stoppages crap. This issue is regularly discussed in the MSM, & amongst AFL officials also, for c.15 years.
In fact, apart from a few coaches (who like this style ,as it makes the game more of a coaches' game, & more jobs in the overpaid & overstaffed Football Dept.'s), there is virtually universal dislike of the congested crap amongst MSM AF experts.

Prof. Norton has also stated that tackling/bumping/pushing/collision injuries are at record high levels in the AFL- a fact you continuously ignore.
I note you make no comments on the Concussion issues challenging AF.

I have also cited the AFL's Charter Of The Game. The post 2004 tackleball/stoppages crap is the antithesis of this.

You just express your views & feelings that you like the crap. You never provide any facts or links supporting your like of the congested crap.
What do you know that the experts don't?


Fatigue is normal in sport, & players will learn to pace themselves & stay in their positions more. The amount of running will be reduced with fewer/no interchange- so tackles/bumps/collisions will be less forceful. Onballers will rest in the pockets- as they did for 100+ years!


Serious?

And you do understand the fans want to see the stars on the field, not on the bench.



I suggest you read a few books on the history of the game.
Historians all agree that the 4 things that give AF superiority over other sports, from a fan's perspective, were:-

. long, accurate kicking from c. 1880 (balls from then had rubber bladders, & were symetrical in shape)

. high marking, from 1880's.

. full forwards regularly kicking bags (from c. 1907 onwards, D. Lee etc.).

. one-on-one contests, especially between the stars (when the game quickened & opened up more, from c. 1920).

All 4 are in decline in the post 2004 AFL.

AF is not rugby, & fans have never found tackling the major appeal of AF.

Females are FAR more susceptible than males to serious knee injuries, requiring often up to 12 months to rehab before they can play again; & are more prone to concussion also. Both are often caused by tackles.


Of course, this is not in dispute.
It is the amount of tackling. In GR AF, light weights are being smashed, & injured-constant flooding has reduced their traditional "space".
This is the shame that rests on the AFL's shoulders, by allowing massive interchange, & more than 2 on the bench.


You have displayed your lack of understanding, you should listen to expert opinion. AF, from 1858 (no offside rule etc.) was conceived as an attacking game, & scoring is important. Virtually all AF experts all agree on this.

Which historians are these

 

[owen87]

Fatigue is normal in sport, & players will learn to pace themselves & stay in their positions more. The amount of running will be reduced with fewer/no interchange- so tackles/bumps/collisions will be less forceful. Onballers will rest in the pockets- as they did for 100+ years!

No they won't. The game is fully professional now. Coaches know more now. You can't reverse time and undo what's been done or unlearn what's been learned.

Absolute fantasy to think otherwise.

Serious?

Yes.

And you do understand the fans want to see the stars on the field, not on the bench.

That's great. So who quantifies that players 21 and 22 on the bench are less skilled than 19 and 20? Or is this just a 'vibe' thing?

Females are FAR more susceptible than males to serious knee injuries, requiring often up to 12 months to rehab before they can play again; & are more prone to concussion also. Both are often caused by tackles.

Relevance? Maybe we should ban tackling and running from the womens game in case they get injured. It can be called touch football.

AF is not rugby, & fans have never found tackling the major appeal of AF.

Fans love tough, contested games though, so perhaps they do like tackling so long as the game is still AFL.

This is the shame that rests on the AFL's shoulders, by allowing massive interchange, & more than 2 on the bench.

Well that's completely hypothetical.

Of course, this is not in dispute.

Glad you agree.

You have displayed your lack of understanding, you should listen to expert opinion. AF, from 1858 (no offside rule etc.) was conceived as an attacking game, & scoring is important. Virtually all AF experts all agree on this.

You mean expert opinion that you love to hammer us all with when you go on, and on, and on, about 'tackleball' and whining about games being contested. Funny how your 'expert opinion' is solely that which agrees with your point of view. I mean, Professor Norton has surely been cited more times by you on this forum than they have in the entire rest of the football world.

I'm sure the AFL was great to watch in 1883 when you started watching it, but your views are antiquated and completely ignore that you can't turn back time and that the league is fully professional now. After almost 2 years of hammering with sub-forum with the same argument and having numerous people call you out on the absurdity of it, you'd think you might have picked up that perhaps you're in the minority.

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-19/aflw-needs-vision-after-record-breaking-2021-season/100077708

K. O'Halloran said the AFLW:-

. has increased its ratings by 35% in season 2021, cf 2020 nos. (which, IIRC, had record ratings in 2020).

. with the Lions' GF win, it is expected to "bolster participation in the Sunshine State"- to another record.

. is encouraging many AFLW players to request the AFL to express its "vision" for the comp.,; & how/when AFLW players might be able to become full time professionals.


Average crowds per game fell, however, in 2021- much more than the c. 25 % covid-related fall in AFL games (also falls caused by entry fees, & ticketing problems/obstacles/no GA simple walk-ups, reduced capacity etc.).
Crowds will have to increase significantly (with more scoring) if the AFLW is able to fund many players in a FT AFLW career.





2. SEN Melb. Radio 19.4

C. Starcevich told D. Russel he does not want the AFLW to expand further in the next few years, since the bottom 3 clubs are not competitive with the top 6.

Can the AFLW metrics rise, if there are 3 uncompetitive clubs?




3.

Which historians are these

Prof. G. Blainey, Ass. Prof. R. Hess, Prof. R Stewart, Dr. R. Pascoe etc. have written about the various features of AF that made it so popular.

Also, by reading contemporary newspaper accounts in the 19th century, & up to the modern era newspaper & MSM commentator etc. reports, it can be easily discerned that (as per the AFL Charter Of The Game) what excited fans the most was:-

. long accurate kicking

. free flowing play, with minimal stoppages.

. contested high marking

. full forwards regularly kicking bags of goals (which often induced borderline "hysteria" reactions from fans).

. many one-on-one contests

 

[cfc to aufc]

1. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-19/aflw-needs-vision-after-record-breaking-2021-season/100077708

K. O'Halloran said the AFLW:-

. has increased its ratings by 35% in season 2021, cf 2020 nos. (which, IIRC, had record ratings in 2020).

. with the Lions' GF win, it is expected to "bolster participation in the Sunshine State"- to another record.

. is encouraging many AFLW players to request the AFL to express its "vision" for the comp.,; & how/when AFLW players might be able to become full time professionals.


Average crowds per game fell, however, in 2021- much more than the c. 25 % covid-related fall in AFL games (also falls caused by entry fees, & ticketing problems/obstacles/no GA simple walk-ups, reduced capacity etc.).
Crowds will have to increase significantly (with more scoring) if the AFLW is able to fund many players in a FT AFLW career.





2. SEN Melb. Radio 19.4

C. Starcevich told D. Russel he does not want the AFLW to expand further in the next few years, since the bottom 3 clubs are not competitive with the top 6.

Can the AFLW metrics rise, if there are 3 uncompetitive clubs?




3.

Prof. G. Blainey, Ass. Prof. R. Hess, Prof. R Stewart, Dr. R. Pascoe etc. have written about the various features of AF that made it so popular.

Also, by reading contemporary newspaper accounts in the 19th century, & up to the modern era newspaper & MSM commentator etc. reports, it can be easily discerned that (as per the AFL Charter Of The Game) what excited fans the most was:-

. long accurate kicking

. free flowing play, with minimal stoppages.

. contested high marking

. full forwards regularly kicking bags of goals (which often induced borderline "hysteria" reactions from fans).

. many one-on-one contests

oh so Australian historians

 

[BringBackTorps]

It is my understanding that the VAFA. Melb. comp. (the biggest in Melb., & is one of 9 adult AF comps. covering the Melb. area) is currently tracking to have c. 4k adult female players in 2021. This is extraordinary, as in 2016, the VAFA (a snrs. only comp.) had nil female players.

Some of the biggest growth is occuring in the private school Old Boys' clubs.
The VAFA does not allow clubs to serve alcohol during games- nor does it allow spectators to bring their own alcohol to drink at games.
It is open to speculation as whether, & why, both are a factor for so many women wishing to play in the VAFA.

 

[jatz14]

oh so Australian historians

And K O'Hallaran. She posted something that suggested the Matilda's getting the same pay as the Socceroos meant AFLW players should be paid the same as the AFLM. I replied and pointed out the W league is the appropriate comparison.

She blocked me. I didn't even suggest AFLW players didn't deserve more pay, I just disagreed with her assesment.

Ardent feminist who sees AFLW as another platform on which to engage the gender wars, and every single thing she writes and fact she uses is done for this reason.

She should be believed on topics AFLW related the way you should approach what Morrison says about climate change, or Trump says about the election.

With a large degree of scepticism.

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