Will Limbach be redrafted?

[Richo83]

Thoughts?

I'd be interested to see what others think. I don't think he will but I think he has been shafted, hasn't played many games and is still an unknown quantity. For a side that hasn't got alot of KPP, its a strange move to say the least.

 

[skybeau]

You got it in one, R83. You would've thought that, as with Moore, Jackson, Hughes, McGuane, Hartigan, Roach + Rodan, that Limbach would have at least got a chance at a few senior games to prove himself. But no. Shafted...bingo.

I reckon, and hope, he'll find a spot somewhere else. Young full-forward, two years under his belt, probably desperate and determined to find a place...surely someone would take that, over an unknown quantity, at the very least in the rookie draft.

 

[Matt9]

I'm going to wade in here but I want to quantify by stating that I don't get to Coburg games at all (living in Perth) and have never seen Limbach play (or train for that matter). But the info I could get (Coburg results and Andy Collins reports on club website) didn't impress me much. Is he really that hard done by? I would have thought that with two years in the system he should at least be playing regularly for Coburg seniors. He only has himself to blame if he couldn't crack a game at some stage doesn't he? I don't believe there is a conspiracy at work to shaft the kid, just that the experts in charge made a decison that he wouldn't make it- based on working with him closely for two years, which I think is plenty of time for them to make an informed decision on a player.

 

[Richo83]

I just hope we pick some good KPP and don't pick some washed up dud in the PSD like Morrison or something, Limbach's better than them.

 

[TheBacko]

2 years in the system on a senior list is enough time to make a senior debut. limbach couldn't even get a regular game for the coburg seniors. he didn't have any injuries & therefore has no excuse. don't think because he was untried at senior level means he has been hard done by, it in fact means that he couldn't make the cut & is a waste of space on the list.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

He kicked 30 in the coburg seniors in 15 games, and kicked 20 in the reserves in 5 games in 2006. Not too shabby for an guy who still lacks bulk. Put 10-15kg on him and he'd surely be useful at least for depth. Had a couple of decent bags, and was no doubt on the end of some shizenhousen delivery at the end of the year when the boys dropped off, and for a part I'm pretty sure he played in defence. In my opinion should have gotten a game this year when richo was out. I think we've stuffed up here a bit.

 

[Weaver]

He will never get a game at FF ahead of Richo. Richo ain't going anywhere for 2 years. Schulz, McGuane and Hughes are all better FF options. Limbach can play nowhere else. No point keeping him around to add depth, we need to find kids who can play, not backups to the backups.

Hopefully we have the courage to back our decision and don't waste a rookie list spot on him.

 

[duckboy]

He kicked 30 in the coburg seniors in 15 games, and kicked 20 in the reserves in 5 games in 2006. Not too shabby for an guy who still lacks bulk. Put 10-15kg on him and he'd surely be useful at least for depth. Had a couple of decent bags, and was no doubt on the end of some shizenhousen delivery at the end of the year when the boys dropped off, and for a part I'm pretty sure he played in defence. In my opinion should have gotten a game this year when richo was out. I think we've stuffed up here a bit.

Nobody's arguing that he can mark on the lead inside forward 50 and kick goals. The point is, what else can he do? You don't keep full forwards around for "depth". Other players on the list mentioned earlier in this thread (Hughes, McGuane, Jackson, Moore) have played in a variety of positions and have worked harder for it. Plough himself said that Limbach probably hadn't acquitted himself terribly well in his first year but lifted in his second. Thats not good enough. He doesn't chase, tackle, take contested marks, outbody or outsmart opponents. Adam Pattison is a good comparison. He may not have set the world on fire yet but he has done everything possible to ensure he keeps improving and becoming a better footballer. He works hard on the track and during a game, involves himself by shepherding, tackling and contesting. When not selected for the Tigers he dominates for Coburg, playing in a variety of positions.

 

[PLSC]

yeh i like patto, i remember the game against the dorks where the senior players were disgraceful and he was taking pack marks in the defensive 50 and backing himself

as much as im not suprised by the limbach decision it still pisses me off that there are plenty of other players who have had their chances and deserved to go before him

 

[Weaver]

as much as im not suprised by the limbach decision it still pisses me off that there are plenty of other players who have had their chances and deserved to go before him

But most of them are contracted. This arguement comes up over and over again. Krakouer, Hall and Tivendale being cut is a childish fantasy. The guys to be cut were always going to come from the uncontracted guys.

With Moore, , McGuane, Jackson, Knobel, Limbach basically the only uncontracted guys we had left to choose from - Limbach was always toast.

 

[Matty Knights]

Surely Hughes will step up to the plate so you'd expect Limbach to get the flick..

 

[LarryLong]

I went for the fourth option. Good riddance is probably a bit harsh as I don't realy wish him any ill will, but sometimes you have to face the fact that a kid's probably not going to make it and move on to the next kid.

He's the only kid on the list that has been there for two years without a senior game, so you had to expect his name to be in the mix if we want to bring in a new batch of draftees.

 

[Crumden]

I don't know a great deal about Limbach, having not seen too many Coburg games. But players rarely make a name for themselves somewhere else after being cut by a club. If clubs make mistakes in list management, its usually in keeping players too long rather than cutting them too soon. Players like Tuck who get a second chance and make somehting of it are by far the exception.

 

[Richo83]

He will never get a game at FF ahead of Richo. Richo ain't going anywhere for 2 years. Schulz, McGuane and Hughes are all better FF options. Limbach can play nowhere else. No point keeping him around to add depth, we need to find kids who can play, not backups to the backups.

Hopefully we have the courage to back our decision and don't waste a rookie list spot on him.

Weaver, I know it's hard to tell what's going to happen in the rookie draft (relies on what happens int the other drafts) but who would you like to see picked up for Richmond in the rookie draft?

 

[Bengal Tiger]

Dean Limbach is the only delisted player still training at Richmond.

He will be rookied come PSD day.

 

[mini_me316]

Dean Limbach is the only delisted player still training at Richmond.

He will be rookied come PSD day.

This is true.
Heard from Tom ROach who is a good mate of Limbachs, Limbach has been told that Richmond will rookie him.

 

[Weaver]

Weaver, I know it's hard to tell what's going to happen in the rookie draft (relies on what happens int the other drafts) but who would you like to see picked up for Richmond in the rookie draft?

Well we only have two picks. Howat and Graham are already there.

I'd like to see a versatile tall who can run and play down back. I suppose similar to Thursfield. I think we need insurance in the big man stakes.

The other spot I think should go to a midfielder. I'd like to give Al Neville a go but it seems it won't happen with him not training with us. Failing that I am sure there will be a goodish midfielder slip through to us.

I think Limbach would be a mistake. He isn't going to make the grade and we need to stop being sentimental and cowardly. Wallace is happy to declare he is willing to make tough decisisions (axeing Kellaway), but then not prepared to cut any kids until they have had 4 years. We are paying the guy big money to make some decisions - not just wait to see how things play out.

 

[Richo83]

Well we only have two picks. Howat and Graham are already there.

I'd like to see a versatile tall who can run and play down back. I suppose similar to Thursfield. I think we need insurance in the big man stakes.

The other spot I think should go to a midfielder. I'd like to give Al Neville a go but it seems it won't happen with him not training with us. Failing that I am sure there will be a goodish midfielder slip through to us.

I think Limbach would be a mistake. He isn't going to make the grade and we need to stop being sentimental and cowardly. Wallace is happy to declare he is willing to make tough decisisions (axeing Kellaway), but then not prepared to cut any kids until they have had 4 years. We are paying the guy big money to make some decisions - not just wait to see how things play out.

Okay, so ideal situation we pick a Rutten out of the rookie draft, seems good.

When you talk about midfielder, what kind of midfielder? Just any kind, or is there a specific kind in mind?

You seem to write off Limbach, how is McGuane, is he alot better than Dean or is he in a similar situation?

 

[cub]

Dean Limbach is the only delisted player still training at Richmond.

He will be rookied come PSD day.

Good news I reckon - The only one I was really taken aback by when I saw the delistings - Deserves a rookie spot for next year and to play in the Coburg firsts each week, to see what he has got.

 

[mini_me316]

I think the thing with Dean is that he wasn't able to get consitent form being in the seniors and reserves of Coburg on so many different weeks, he was getting close to being picked for the Tiges but Wallace said his body wasn't big enough yet for senior AFL level.

He will be rookied by the Tiges and good luck to him, I hope he can come on by playing every game in the seniors at Coburg and hopefully get elevated to the senior Tiges during the season.

 

[Weaver]

Okay, so ideal situation we pick a Rutten out of the rookie draft, seems good.

History teaches us that the chances of getting a good KP player at pick 10 and in the rookie draft are about the same.

A top-10 midfielder might be a 50-50 bet. A guy taken 11-30 might be a 30% chance. A rookie list guy might be a 15% chance. There is a fairly natural / expected falling away of a guys chances. Exactly what you would expect.

This doesn't hold up for the big blokes. They are rawer. They have less postitions they can play in (so less chance to get on the field). A big bloke take at 10 is a 20% chance and a big bloke taken in the rookie draft is a 20% chance.

Eagles and Swans each had one KP player who had been a first round pick. Half the Eagles big blokes were rookies.

If there is a great big bloke then draft him with a top-3 pick (Pavlich, Fraser, White, Reiwoldt, Kot****ke etc). Those 'certain' guys are worth the early pick.

The second-tier guys outside the top-3 (eg Prestigiacomo, Livingstone, Brennan etc) are no more likely to be OK than a guy taken at 50, or taken on the rookie list.

It is dead-set madness to waste early draft picks on ho-hum big blokes. It is becoming more and more wasteful with each passing year as the game changes.

So - to answer your question - yes lets get a Rutten on the rookie list.

When you talk about midfielder, what kind of midfielder? Just any kind, or is there a specific kind in mind?

You seem to write off Limbach, how is McGuane, is he alot better than Dean or is he in a similar situation?

Dean Limbach is dead set dire. I had him as a kid to draft two years ago, he has had his chance, stick a fork in him.

McGuane can play forward and defence. Loves the argy-bargy and plays with passion and commitment. There will be plenty more talented guys running around but like Hyde, Hall and Foley - McGaune won't be surrendering his AFL career without a fight.

If McGuane can add some footy-smarts and awareness to his game he can be a handy back-up. A big bloke who can fill-in in all the key spots.

Limbach can play FF. Against small, light defenders. When the team is winning. When the service is exceptional. Basically Limbach can kick the goals that anyone with a pulse would kick.

He doesn't create chances for himself or others. Doesn't bring people into the game. Doesn't chase, tackle or make second efforts. He doesn't convert 'half-chances' into full-chances - a good FF will have the ability to take that special mark, or find it on the ground etc.

You put blind freddie at FF, clean out the 50, and direct everything to him and he is going to average more than 2 goals a game.

In limited opportunites Schulz, Hughes and McGuane have all shown that they are least twice the FF that Limbach is.

Rookieing him is just pissing money up a wall.

 

[Weaver]

I think the thing with Dean is that he wasn't able to get consitent form being in the seniors and reserves of Coburg on so many different weeks, .

The reason he was in the reserves was he kept getting dropped. This whole "deserves a go" line is BS. He was barely holding down his place on merit for Coburg seniors. 2 goals a game from a FF is a rubbish return - particularly at VFL level.

He kept getting dropped because Hughes and McGuane are better FFs than him.

Limbach only played FF because he can't play anywhere else. Hughes can play CHF, CHB and even had a go in the ruck. McGuane can play FB and CHB and was a junior CHF.

Because they have versatility they were forced to play away from FF to accomodate the one-trick Limbach who can't even play in the forward pocket because he has no defensive side and can't find the footy unless it is rammed down his throat.

In the final against Frankston Limbach plays 4 quarters for 4 goals and is handy. Hughes comes on with a quarter and half to go. Moves to CHF in the last and kicks 2 goals and shows who the real talent is.

Happened time and time again.

The kid can take a mark. End of story. That's his whole game.

he was getting close to being picked for the Tiges but Wallace said his body wasn't big enough yet for senior AFL level.

Horse ****.

 

[Richo83]

Okay then. At pick 52, its not much of a worry, if he was a top 20 pick, then we would be worried, but he was our last young pick in 2004, and McGuane sounds good. Where is McGuane's ideal position IYO?

From your assesment, Limbach sounds kinda like Lloyd or a much taller Williams, all he does is lead out of the goalsquare, does nothing else.

 

[Weaver]

Okay then. At pick 52, its not much of a worry, if he was a top 20 pick, then we would be worried, but he was our last young pick in 2004, and McGuane sounds good. Where is McGuane's ideal position IYO?

Somewhere where he can hit people

Well not hit people. But he is a physical kid who isn't shy of running through people. At Coburg he was playing at FB and kept forgetting he wasn't playing rugby. He was playing like a prop-forward - tucking the ball under his arm, running forward until he ran out of room and got caught. A little bit like a tall Rodan

His skills are OK. He is a good body shape. He competes hard. He barely played last year because of injury so is almost a first year player. Just needs a little bit of science and footy smarts. He is a big, dumb, puppy dog at the moment - knocking over the furniture in an attempt to jump on you when you come home from work.

A lot to work with though. Needs to be sent to the less-is-more school of football over the summer.

 

[Goldust]

Richmond will not redraft Limbach and neither will any other club draft him.....hence our decision is the right one!!!