Woggabaliri

[sgnl00]

Unsure if this has been brought up by a GoogleBooks search brings up this particular book:

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=DMqcmwxfFikC&pg=PA11&dq=Woggabaliri&hl=en&ei=o8_QTIejN5SjceuQlMYL&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Woggabaliri&f=false

It was written in 2008, cites web addresses as sources yet unfortunately the interesting pages we want to look at are copyrighted and not accessible via GoogleBooks (woggabaliri is mentioned in indexing, but there is not an information page we can access).

Interestingly enough, the 'author', Gayle L. Horowitz has close to little information apart from that she is (possibly) a secondary PE teacher. The governing company that employs everyone involved with the book, Human Kinetics, is a pretty well respected publisher of sports science material...

Surely this is just some big joke that got out of hand?

 

[ian 13]

Wow, here come the nutters!

Noone I have heard as contested the existence of Marn Grook and related games in tribes across Victoria.

What has been contested is that it was at all significant in the formation of Australian football.

What is undoubtable, from some accounts of observers, is the game has striking similarities to what our greatest cultural triumph, Australian football, evolved in to!

Woggabaliri, until we are informed differently, appears to have been fabricated by the ASC, or one Dr Kevin Edwards, to trick aboriginals into thinking their forefathers played some game similar to soccer. The FFA have apparently used it to trick Corrupt Europeans et al into giving us the world cup!

The incredible gullibility of the soccer nutters who have written articles in the Daily Tele, set up Wiki pages etc in the last week has, ironically, brought this apparent fraud out in the open

The ASC using taxpayer dollars (including us Victards) in this way is scandalous.

your spot on chaz but i think you mean "inadvertantly"

 

[TheRevolution]

Wow, here come the nutters!

Noone I have heard as contested the existence of Marn Grook and related games in tribes across Victoria.

What has been contested is that it was at all significant in the formation of Australian football.

What is undoubtable, from some accounts of observers, is the game has striking similarities to what our greatest cultural triumph, Australian football, evolved in to!

Woggabaliri, until we are informed differently, appears to have been fabricated by the ASC, or one Dr Kevin Edwards, to trick aboriginals into thinking their forefathers played some game similar to soccer. The FFA have apparently used it to trick Corrupt Europeans et al into giving us the world cup!

The incredible gullibility of the soccer nutters who have written articles in the Daily Tele, set up Wiki pages etc in the last week has, ironically, brought this apparent fraud out in the open

The ASC using taxpayer dollars (including us Victards) in this way is scandalous.

Well i'm glad that you and your redneck mates all agree on marngrook, but what actual evidence do you have ?

 

[Barkly St End]

Well i'm glad that you and your redneck mates all agree on marngrook, but what actual evidence do you have ?

As Chaz said:
1. here come the nutters
2. a number of texts on the history of Australian Football, all written by eminent historians, acknowledge the existence of a game (or varieties of games), played by the indigenous people of the Western Districts of Victoria and futher afield, that involved kicking something around made of possum fur, and they all agree that it's unlikely it had any influence on the modern game of Australian Football (or to be more precise, there is no evidence that it had any influence, apart from speculation that Tom Will may have seen the game played).

 

[ian 13]

As Chaz said:
1. here come the nutters
2. a number of texts on the history of Australian Football, all written by eminent historians, acknowledge the existence of a game (or varieties of games), played by the indigenous people of the Western Districts of Victoria and futher afield, that involved kicking something around made of possum fur, and they all agree that it's unlikely it had any influence on the modern game of Australian Football (or to be more precise, there is no evidence that it had any influence, apart from speculation that Tom Will may have seen the game played).

Tom Wills

 

[Barkly St End]

Tom Wills

It's called a typo.

 

[ian 13]

or a mistake quickly covered

 

[TheRevolution]

As Chaz said:
1. here come the nutters
2. a number of texts on the history of Australian Football, all written by eminent historians, acknowledge the existence of a game (or varieties of games), played by the indigenous people of the Western Districts of Victoria and futher afield, that involved kicking something around made of possum fur, and they all agree that it's unlikely it had any influence on the modern game of Australian Football (or to be more precise, there is no evidence that it had any influence, apart from speculation that Tom Will may have seen the game played).

At this stage the evidence consists largely of "Someone seen a bunch of Aboriginals kicking a ball of possum fur around" which could mean anything

 

[Subprime]

Well i'm glad that you and your redneck mates all agree on marngrook, but what actual evidence do you have ?

Eye witness accounts that got into quite a bit of detail regarding the structure and nature of the game. They were made by quite credible people too such as the Protector of Aborigines for Victoria amongst others.

 

[Barkly St End]

Eye witness accounts that got into quite a bit of detail regarding the structure and nature of the game. They were made by quite credible people too such as the Protector of Aborigines for Victoria amongst others.

And the eye witness accounts go all the way back to the 1850s and 1860s (the ones I've seen), AND many eminent Australian historians have researched the subject.

But what do we have with Woggabaliri?

Not very much!!

 

[TheRevolution]

http://www.ausport.gov.au/participa...s/individual_games/ball_games/woggabaliri.pdf

Anyone for a game ? lol

 

[Barkly St End]

Here's the Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woggabaliri

I've just noticed one oddity, it says: "Woggabaliri is recognised by the Australian Sports Commission as the oldest Indigenous game and is the earliest depicted, believed to be the subject of an engraving "never let the ball hit the ground" based on William Blandowski's observations in 1857 of camp life near Merbein, Victoria."

But hang on - I thought Woggabaliri was played in central NSW and is from the language of that area?

I also note the article cites an article from The Advertiser that is not accessible.

They were the only ones to run with this story? hmmm...

 

[BarneyBent]

Lol, last time I looked at the page, there was a paragraph outlining the inconsistencies of the story and the conspiracy theory (added by a BFer?). Now it's gone.

 

[Subprime]

Here's the Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woggabaliri

I've just noticed one oddity, it says: "Woggabaliri is recognised by the Australian Sports Commission as the oldest Indigenous game and is the earliest depicted, believed to be the subject of an engraving "never let the ball hit the ground" based on William Blandowski's observations in 1857 of camp life near Merbein, Victoria."

But hang on - I thought Woggabaliri was played in central NSW and is from the language of that area?

I also note the article cites an article from The Advertiser that is not accessible.

They were the only ones to run with this story? hmmm...

If you have a close look at the Blandowski's illustration the guy who is being kicked to has his hands out to catch the ball, not sure how that fits in with the ASC's world view.





William Thomas, the Protector of Aborigines, wrote accounts of Marngrook dated from the early 1840's. But how you could recognise any indiginous game as being older than another is beyond me. If they were around at the time of white settlement there is no way of knowing how old they are.

 

[al ain pie]

http://www.ausport.gov.au/participa...s/individual_games/ball_games/woggabaliri.pdf

Anyone for a game ? lol

so now its politically correct for teachers to ask the kids 'who wants a game of wog ball'

 

[Super Fly]

I
Ironically, Modern Ballet was re-introduced in australia by russians escaping stalinist oppression in the early 1900s

Yes but back then it was called ****dance, named after the famous Russian dancer, Vladamir ****ovski.

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Whoever believes this should be put on a raft and cast out to sea

 

[TheRevolution]

http://www.ausport.gov.au/participating/indigenous/resources/games_and_activities/disclaimer

And if we look closer at this image you'll notice The kids using the traditional Adidas ball and dribbling around the indigenous plastic cones

 

[Pie eyed]

Here's the Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woggabaliri

I've just noticed one oddity, it says: "Woggabaliri is recognised by the Australian Sports Commission as the oldest Indigenous game and is the earliest depicted, believed to be the subject of an engraving "never let the ball hit the ground" based on William Blandowski's observations in 1857 of camp life near Merbein, Victoria."

But hang on - I thought Woggabaliri was played in central NSW and is from the language of that area?

I also note the article cites an article from The Advertiser that is not accessible.

They were the only ones to run with this story? hmmm...

For what itis worth I spoke to a woman at the ASC today. She is the head of the indigenous department and was happy to discuss the games described in pdf's on the website.

Ken Edwards was commissioned by the ASC to travel to the remote area's and gather information on indigenous games.
His book, commissioned by the ASC is the only resource on which these claims are based.

Make of that what you will.

I also enquired during our conversation whether the name Woggabaliri was in fact a pisstake or an in joke.
She did not know. Everything on the ASC website was based on the book and Ken Edwards opinions.

 

[Pie eyed]

http://www.ausport.gov.au/participating/indigenous/resources/games_and_activities/disclaimer

And if we look closer at this image you'll notice The kids using the traditional Adidas ball and dribbling around the indigenous plastic cones

This made me laugh...
In the late 90's a WA MP with indigenous heritage claimed that grabbing the guitar, playing a bit of country and western and having a few red wines while poaching marron out of season was traditional......I laughed hard then and even harder when he was convicted of poaching marron.

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

your spot on chaz but i think you mean "inadvertantly"

nah dude I meant ironic

ironic that the asc has apparently been pushing this for years to trick aboriginal kids into playing soccer, and it has been exposed by overexcited soccer nutters

inadvertant could have worked as well, but it was not the point that I, the writer of the post, was trying to get across

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

For what itis worth I spoke to a woman at the ASC today. She is the head of the indigenous department and was happy to discuss the games described in pdf's on the website.

Ken Edwards was commissioned by the ASC to travel to the remote area's and gather information on indigenous games.
His book, commissioned by the ASC is the only resource on which these claims are based.

Make of that what you will.

I also enquired during our conversation whether the name Woggabaliri was in fact a pisstake or an in joke.
She did not know. Everything on the ASC website was based on the book and Ken Edwards opinions.

Great work Pie Eyed, sounds like we are on the money..

...now can someone track down that Ken Edwards chap and ask him a few questions?

 

[Barkly St End]

Great work Pie Eyed, sounds like we are on the money..

...now can someone track down that Ken Edwards chap and ask him a few questions?

We really need to get Martin Flanagan to pursue this - plenty of angles and they all expose a fair bit of falsifying for very narrow ends.

The biggest of all, is that a large Government body would use this false story as a means to push their agenda to get more taxpayer money, while undermining the efforts of a private sporting body with very similar objectives (who succeeds with no, or very little, taxpayer money).

 

[Barkly St End]

I found this link of an ABC radio interview Ken Edwards did back in 2001, so he's been working on this project of re-discovering indigenous games for a long time (and by the way, I'm quite happy about such a project existing).

But it's curious that something with the unfortunate name of Woggabaliri arises out of thin air, never, ever been heard of before, just in time to get a mention in Australia's bid to host the World cup in 2022, as some sort of evidence of the long heritage of soccer in Australia!! Even worse, it's almost insinuating that the world's very first football was invented in Australia (that may be true - but you better have your story straight if someone asks the obvious question!!)

http://www.abc.net.au/am/stories/s271017.htm

I would think that each of Australia's rivals to host the WC in 2022 would be extremely interested in this sudden discovery of Woggabaliri.

One positive, we can forget about worrying whether we should use soccer or football, and we can call it henceforth Woggabaliri.

 

[Sebastian Balboa]

We really need to get Martin Flanagan to pursue this - plenty of angles and they all expose a fair bit of falsifying for very narrow ends.

The biggest of all, is that a large Government body would use this false story as a means to push their agenda to get more taxpayer money, while undermining the efforts of a private sporting body with very similar objectives (who succeeds with no, or very little, taxpayer money).

Give Richard Hinds the brief.