Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[PJays]

It sounds like Lynn's given a story that's broadly consistent with the facts and evidence. And the prosecution admitted they have no indication of motive. And no witnesses. Nothing that clearly contradicts Lynn's version so far.

I can't see him being found guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

Edit: I'm willing to change this view when new evidence is presented. And I haven't followed this meticulously. But it has the feel of one where it'll be difficult to pin him beyond doubt.

 

[Zidane98]

Excerpt from Herald Sun article:



On the defence case, Mr Lynn was camping nearby to Mr Hill and Ms Clay and their initial interaction on March 19 was to “exchange pleasantries”.

Mr Dann told the jury that his client was deer hunting in the area and about dinnertime on March 20, walked over to ask Mr Hill “about his drone”.

Mr Hill was “speaking nonsense” and accused Mr Lynn of hunting too close to camp, Mr Dann said, so his client returned to his camp and turned the radio on “trying to annoy Mr Hill”.



I'm sure this has been raised before but it appears in the evidence that RH arrived on the Thursday night. GL claims here that the two parties exchanged pleasantries on the Thu night with no issues.

I always thought RH had arrive just before the radio call on the 20th March. It appears he was already in the "Gatta the night before GL claims the altercation started after dinner on the 20th when he questioned RH about using his drone. In this case both parties were known to each other after the interaction on the previous night.

 

[Zidane98]

It sounds like Lynn's given a story that's broadly consistent with the known facts and evidence. And the prosecution has admitted they have no firm indications of motive. And no witnesses. Nothing that clearly contradicts Lynn's version of events.

Given all that, I can't see how he could be found guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

One thing that works against him - if it went down as he claimed - why not leave everything as it was and get the police down there right away? RH had communication equipment and he also had communication equipment. And if he doesn't get on the stand to explain why it isn't a good look for him.

 

[FrankGrimes]

It sounds like Lynn's given a story that's broadly consistent with the facts and evidence. And the prosecution admitted they have no indication of motive. And no witnesses. Nothing that clearly contradicts Lynn's version.

I can't see him being found guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

Easy to say when 2 of the people who know the truth are dead.. he is odds on the found guilty of murder.. there is more then enough reasonable double that 2 people don’t die in struggle.. the prosecution will take his story apart.

 

[PJays]

One thing that works against him - if it went down as he claimed - why not leave everything as it was and get the police down there right away?

If you assume for one second his story is true, I think many people would react as he did.

Many people wouldn't be willing to call the cops and say "hey guys, just letting you know I just killed two people. A complete accident! I can explain everything. Here come identify the bodies!"

It's not a hole in his story from my perspective. There may be holes but this isn't one.

Edit: It's a "hole" in the sense that it makes it more likely that he's guilty, than if he'd called the cops immediately. It creates a degree of suspicion about Lynn for sure.

But it's not a major hole, because it's still a course of action that's somewhat understandable in the aftermath of such events. And remember the prosecution has to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

I haven't read into the case as closely as others in this thread but on face value it appears it'll be difficult for prosecution to meet that standard- where murder is concerned. Manslaughter is a different argument.

 

[Zidane98]

If you assume for one second his story is true, I think many people would react as he did.

Many people wouldn't be willing to call the cops and say "hey guys, just letting you know I just killed two people. A complete accident! I can explain everything. Here come identify the bodies!"

It's not a hole in his story from my perspective. There may be holes but this isn't one.

If it were true, I don't see why he wouldn't have just left things as they were and fled. Nobody noticed anything until a few days later anyway, the same person would have discovered the two bodies and got coppers out there quick smart.

 

[captain cotch 9]

Scumbag. Dermott Dann does alright out of acting for these types eh.

TBH i find his version of events more believable.

 

[Kurve]

TBH i find his version of events more believable.

That's right because it could happen to any of us that we're out in the bush and get in to an argument with campers and accidentally kill both of them.

 

[Run n Spread]

I sometimes wonder if it were possible in trials that the defendent


If it were true, I don't see why he wouldn't have just left things as they were and fled. Nobody noticed anything until a few days later anyway, the same person would have discovered the two bodies and got coppers out there quick smart.

First thing they'd do is a gunshot analysis identify the type of gun and a search for registered shooters correlated with regos in the area. Would take 5 mins and he's in the frame.

 

[Kurve]

There's a theory in this thread of what Lynn might say if he were to try a self defence defence, and it was about the only thing he could say. It's played out exactly.

This theory came from imagination.

 

[Badd0g]

If RH had video of him shooting illegally, that might explain it. RH was a frequent visitor to the National Park and I'm pretty sure he would have got permission to fly the drone.

"You need approval to launch, land or operate a drone in a national park or other reserve managed by National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS). The Drones in parks policy provides detailed information on using drones and how to apply for approval.
Commercial use of drones in national parks requires approval and is subject to the NPWS Filming and photography policy.

Before you fly a drone in a park​

• Request approval from the relevant NPWS park office.
• Check for alerts on the webpage of the park that you intend to fly in. There may be fires or incidents that will stop you flying that day.
• Read and comply with Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) drone safety rules."

Of course, as a check pilot, Lynn would have been the "expert" on CASA rules.

I think the prosecution will be presenting evidence from Hill's recent interactions with other campers that will debunk the "cantankerous old git" theory.

It is extraordinarily difficult to get approval to fly a drone in Nat Parks in Victoria, and even then only for commercial ventures.

 

[PJays]

There's a theory in this thread of what Lynn might say if he were to try a self defence defence, and it was about the only thing he could say. It's played out exactly.

This theory came from imagination.

Yeah but, if he was not guilty how do you think it played out?

Or do you just think he's guilty and there's no other plausible scenario?

 

[Kurve]

Yeah but, if he was not guilty how do you think it played out?

Or do you just think he's guilty and there's no other reasonable scenario?

The question for the jury to decide, is if it's a case of murder or manslaughter, or one of each. A manslaughter conviction also requires a guilty verdict.

In the circumstances, I can't see any way for him to get out of this with zero conviction.

 

[Irma]

Mushroom lady hasn’t even been to trial yet? And her lawyer is Phillip Dunn who is one of the best in Australia.

Nah, she’s being represented by Colin Mandy SC now. He’s been her defence lawyer for her last 2 court appearances. This quote was after the appearance in April, where she asked for the proceedings to stay in Gippsland (Walsh being Magistrate Tim Walsh):


“Walsh noted Philip Dunn KC was no longer acting for Patterson, with Mandy instead appearing on her behalf.
“Ms Patterson, I understand Mr Dunn is no longer in the matter. Have your solicitors indicated [who] will be appearing?” Walsh asked.

“It was my understanding Mr Mandy would be here,” Patterson replied.”

https://archive.md/rE97P

 

[Zidane98]

First thing they'd do is a gunshot analysis identify the type of gun and a search for registered shooters correlated with regos in the area. Would take 5 mins and he's in the frame.

Correlating car regos with people in the area is very difficult due to how remote it is. The only reason GL was picked up as a person of interest was his decision to travel the long way home from Dargo via Hotham and subsequently get himself snapped on the Hotham resort cameras.

Had that not happened he may not even have been arrested.

 

[Toump Ass]

What a cantankerous old fart.

 

[Irma]

Excerpt from Herald Sun article:



On the defence case, Mr Lynn was camping nearby to Mr Hill and Ms Clay and their initial interaction on March 19 was to “exchange pleasantries”.

Mr Dann told the jury that his client was deer hunting in the area and about dinnertime on March 20, walked over to ask Mr Hill “about his drone”.

Mr Hill was “speaking nonsense” and accused Mr Lynn of hunting too close to camp, Mr Dann said, so his client returned to his camp and turned the radio on “trying to annoy Mr Hill”.



I'm sure this has been raised before but it appears in the evidence that RH arrived on the Thursday night. GL claims here that the two parties exchanged pleasantries on the Thu night with no issues.

I always thought RH had arrive just before the radio call on the 20th March. It appears he was already in the "Gatta the night before GL claims the altercation started after dinner on the 20th when he questioned RH about using his drone. In this case both parties were known to each other after the interaction on the previous night.

If I’m remembering correctly wasn’t there someone who said they were driving along in the Wonnangatta Valley behind an older grey haired couple in a white land cruiser on the 19th, that was going slow? And everyone sort of dismissed it because of RH’s radio call on the 20th saying he had to finish setting up camp, etc?

I don’t think GL would say they were there on the 19th if they weren’t, as if it could be proven that he was lying, then the prosecution would then argue that nothing he says can be trusted as being the truth.

 

[Kurve]

If I’m remembering correctly wasn’t there someone who said they were driving along in the Wonnangatta Valley behind an older grey haired couple in a white land cruiser on the 19th, that was going slow? And everyone sort of dismissed it because of RH’s radio call on the 20th saying he had to finish setting up camp, etc?

I don’t think GL would say they were there on the 19th if they weren’t, as if it could be proven that he was lying, then the prosecution would then argue that nothing he says can be trusted as being the truth.

That's something Lynn doesn't have to lie about and easily disproved if untrue, so agree he probably isn't lying.

 

[Pamcake1]

Weed sprayer tells murder trial of encounter with 'sweaty' man days before High Country camper deaths

Two weed sprayers recommended Greg Lynn set up camp at Bucks Camp days before he allegedly murdered Carol Clay and Russell Hill at the remote campsite in Victoria's High Country, a court has heard.

www.abc.net.au

"Mr Williams also recalled a drone being flown over his own campsite later that same evening in a way that was "a bit rude".

He did not know where the drone was being flown from or who was flying it but waved to it.

He told the court he was camped about 3 kilometres away from Buck's Camp.

"We got back to camp and knocked off and had been lighting a fire when I heard this noise coming down the river and couldn't work out what it was," he told the court.

"Then I looked up and noticed over the top of me there was a drone flying over the top of me, very low."
The court also heard from another weed sprayer, Walter Gibbs, who recalled the "friendly" and short conversation with the deer hunter about Buck's Camp.

He also saw the drone flying in the evening of March 20, 2020."

 

[Irma]

That's something Lynn doesn't have to lie about and easily disproved if untrue, so agree he probably isn't lying.

Just found the article, in The Age Newspaper back in January 2023:

“Two men hunting in Victoria’s High Country say they saw campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay alive the day before police allege the older couple were killed by a former Jetstar pilot.

Damir Jovar, who gave evidence from NSW with the assistance of a Serbian interpreter, said he was camping in the remote Wonnangatta Valley with a friend when he came across an older couple in a white Toyota Landcruiser on March 19, 2020.”


“Jovar told the Melbourne Magistrates’ Court he was in the area to camp and hunt when he and his friend noticed the Landcruiser pull into a camping spot where a blue Nissan and newer white ute were already parked next to each other. Jovar said he saw Hill and Clay the following day but did not speak to them as they were about 100 metres away.

Hill and Clay last communicated with a friend via high-frequency radio on March 20, 2020, with police alleging Lynn murdered the pair later that day.”

https://archive.md/SMVA4

 

[Irma]

Weed sprayer tells murder trial of encounter with 'sweaty' man days before High Country camper deaths

Two weed sprayers recommended Greg Lynn set up camp at Bucks Camp days before he allegedly murdered Carol Clay and Russell Hill at the remote campsite in Victoria's High Country, a court has heard.

www.abc.net.au

"Mr Williams also recalled a drone being flown over his own campsite later that same evening in a way that was "a bit rude".

He did not know where the drone was being flown from or who was flying it but waved to it.

He told the court he was camped about 3 kilometres away from Buck's Camp.

"We got back to camp and knocked off and had been lighting a fire when I heard this noise coming down the river and couldn't work out what it was," he told the court.

"Then I looked up and noticed over the top of me there was a drone flying over the top of me, very low."
The court also heard from another weed sprayer, Walter Gibbs, who recalled the "friendly" and short conversation with the deer hunter about Buck's Camp.

He also saw the drone flying in the evening of March 20, 2020."

“Later today, it is expected to hear evidence from two more campers, who live in New South Wales, and were in the area at the time.”

I wonder if that’s the guy who said he saw them in the Wonnangatta Valley on the 19th, that I just posted above? They were from NSW. Might finally get it sorted re which day they arrived in the Valley.

 

[Alberto_Magnifico]

Weed sprayer tells murder trial of encounter with 'sweaty' man days before High Country camper deaths

Two weed sprayers recommended Greg Lynn set up camp at Bucks Camp days before he allegedly murdered Carol Clay and Russell Hill at the remote campsite in Victoria's High Country, a court has heard.

www.abc.net.au

"Mr Williams also recalled a drone being flown over his own campsite later that same evening in a way that was "a bit rude".

He did not know where the drone was being flown from or who was flying it but waved to it.

He told the court he was camped about 3 kilometres away from Buck's Camp.

"We got back to camp and knocked off and had been lighting a fire when I heard this noise coming down the river and couldn't work out what it was," he told the court.

"Then I looked up and noticed over the top of me there was a drone flying over the top of me, very low."
The court also heard from another weed sprayer, Walter Gibbs, who recalled the "friendly" and short conversation with the deer hunter about Buck's Camp.

He also saw the drone flying in the evening of March 20, 2020."

Flying drones over people, setting up camp too close to others and complaining about what they're doing...for a bloke that loved the outdoors he didn't seem to respect other people's ability to also enjoy it

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I always thought RH had arrive just before the radio call on the 20th March

I’m sure I read that they stayed somewhere else the night before and had just arrived at the campsite before the radio call on the 20th. Surely this could be confirmed by the friend he called if so. Looks like GL is putting his own spin on everything that is not able to be confirmed. IMO.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

If you assume for one second his story is true, I think many people would react as he did.

Many people wouldn't be willing to call the cops and say "hey guys, just letting you know I just killed two people. A complete accident! I can explain everything. Here come identify the bodies!"

It's not a hole in his story from my perspective. There may be holes but this isn't one.

Edit: It's a "hole" in the sense that it makes it more likely that he's guilty, than if he'd called the cops immediately. It creates a degree of suspicion about Lynn for sure.

But it's not a major hole, because it's still a course of action that's somewhat understandable in the aftermath of such events. And remember the prosecution has to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

I haven't read into the case as closely as others in this thread but on face value it appears it'll be difficult for prosecution to meet that standard- where murder is concerned. Manslaughter is a different argument.

The police know he was the cause of two deaths, that’s inescapable. Whether deliberately or accidental or a mixture of the two, nothing excuses the inhuman cover-up. He would have stood a slightly better chance of being believed if he’d reported it straight away.

 

[Irma]

I’m sure I read that they stayed somewhere else the night before and had just arrived at the campsite before the radio call on the 20th. Surely this could be confirmed by the friend he called if so. Looks like GL is putting his own spin on everything that is not able to be confirmed. IMO.

Except there are 2 campers from NSW who have already stated in previous hearings that they believe they saw a couple matching R&C&vehicle description in the Wonnangatta Valley on the 19th? Hopefully they are the 2 blokes that we’ll hear from this arvo in court.