Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[MrsBlueSky]

Does the trailer even matter any longer? Not like GL is denying carting RH & CC up to Grants HA in it. All locating it would do is confirm what GL has already admitted to.

If you can't find a trailer used in an alleged murder they are hardly going to find the weapons. They wouldn't have found the bodies unless Lynn told them and they didn't find Lynn for 600 days.

 

[GrayRanga]

When the lawyer said you'll hear it in his own words, I took that to mean on the interview tape with police.
Does anyone know what happened to the shotgun, or the knife?
Police don't even know what happened to GL's trailer - how could that vanish?

A 6x4 trailer for domestic use doesn't have to registered in Victoria. so no transfer papers.

Someone bought one really cheap and doesn't want to lose it?

Either that or park it without locks on a nature strip a couple of suburbs away for a week or so

 

[Zidane98]

If you can't find a trailer used in an alleged murder they are hardly going to find the weapons. They wouldn't have found the bodies unless Lynn told them and they didn't find Lynn for 600 days.

But the trailer wasn't used in the murder. It was used to move the bodies to Grants HA for which GL fully admits to doing so.

 

[EagleEyes1]

IF Hill was hunting Deer with the shotgun LEGALLY, he would have had to use the solid slugs as suggested previously, the solid slugs would need to be at least 245 grain (so about 16 grams). Not sure if two less shots would have changed the weight and balance too much.

BUT, if the shotgun holds five shots in the magazine and one in the chamber, there are six shots. Maybe the drone captured Lynn doing something else with the other three shots... did the forensics show up any animal bones? was Lynn successful in a deer hunt or [dramatic pause] are there other people missing? (dun dun daaa)

Three shots. We don’t know if it was from one gun. One to Clay’s head that’s for sure. Two to Hill. It may have been from a rifle for Hill at a distance and not the shotgun. The bullet may have gone through Hill and ended up in the bush somewhere. The knife I believe is a myth there’s zero evidence that it was used and zero evidence that it exists. A total fabrication of events to confuse everybody.

IMO

 

[faible]

Three shots. We don’t know if it was from one gun. One to Clay’s head that’s for sure. Two to Hill. It may have been from a rifle for Hill at a distance and not the shotgun. The bullet may have gone through Hill and ended up in the bush somewhere. The knife I believe is a myth there’s zero evidence that it was used and zero evidence that it exists. A total fabrication of events to confuse everybody.

IMO

Pretty risky to claim someone was definitely stabbed and not shot, if they had any kind of forensic evidence that demonstrates a gunshot his entire defence falls apart.

Smartest play is have a level of truth to it that forensic evidence can't disprove.

 

[jason_recliner]

Pretty risky to claim someone was definitely stabbed and not shot, if they had any kind of forensic evidence that demonstrates a gunshot his entire defence falls apart.

How would you determine whether somebody has been stabbed or shot using a pile of incinerated bone fragments?

Risk is low, opportunity is significant (i.e. much easier to claim self defence / manslaughter with one person shot dead than two people shot dead).

 

[faible]

How would you determine whether somebody has been stabbed or shot using a pile of incinerated bone fragments?

No idea, I'm not a forensic bone examiner!

But if I was hinging my entire freedom and whether I was going to be convicted for murder on whether someone might be able to tear my entire story apart by finding evidence of a gunshot on a skeleton where I said there was definitely not a gunshot, I'd probably stick closer to the facts.

 

[MiguelM]

Pretty risky to claim someone was definitely stabbed and not shot, if they had any kind of forensic evidence that demonstrates a gunshot his entire defence falls apart.

Smartest play is have a level of truth to it that forensic evidence can't disprove.

They can't prove how they died. Forensics admitted that. He did such a good job at burning and fragmenting bodies.

If he was in such a panic, would he have not just buried them then the bodies would help prove his story?

IMO, he knew exactly how to remove any evidence. He then creates his own narrative to fit.

Edit:"Called to give evidence, forensic pathologist Dr Melanie Archer told the jury more than 2000 bone fragments located in December 2021 were identified as the missing pair". That is pretty calculated IMO.

 

[Kurve]

No idea, I'm not a forensic bone examiner!

But if I was hinging my entire freedom and whether I was going to be convicted for murder on whether someone might be able to tear my entire story apart by finding evidence of a gunshot on a skeleton where I said there was definitely not a gunshot, I'd probably stick closer to the facts.

They can't prove how they died. Forensics admitted that. He did such a good job at burning and fragmenting bodies.

If he was in such a panic, would he have not just buried them then the bodies would help prove his story?

IMO, he knew exactly how to remove any evidence. He then creates his own narrative to fit.

Lynn didn't remove all the evidence, they found lead with Clay's DNA on it. They could have found the same with Hill but they didn't.

It doesn't matter how good a job he did covering up, nobody can do it perfectly which is proved on that piece of lead with Clay's DNA on it, found at Bucks Camp.

 

[faible]

They can't prove how they died. Forensics admitted that. He did such a good job at burning and fragmenting bodies.

If he was in such a panic, would he have not just buried them then the bodies would help prove his story?

IMO, he knew exactly how to remove any evidence. He then creates his own narrative to fit.

He had a lot of time to go back and cover things up, I imagine he's not stupid enough to have googled on his own devices but his search history on <something> would have been pretty detailed I'd have thought.

Still, leaves a big piece of his story hinging on an actual expert in bones not being able to identify enough. They simply have to demonstrate a gunshot wound anywhere on Hill to have the story fall apart. I wouldn't want my freedom hinging on that.

 

[jason_recliner]

He had a lot of time to go back and cover things up, I imagine he's not stupid enough to have googled on his own devices but his search history on <something> would have been pretty detailed I'd have thought.

Still, leaves a big piece of his story hinging on an actual expert in bones not being able to identify enough. They simply have to demonstrate a gunshot wound anywhere on Hill to have the story fall apart. I wouldn't want my freedom hinging on that.

Impossible to identify a gunshot wound in bones which are broken up and burned enough, which these ones evidently are. Easy to explain away any lead in the ashes above background concentrations - bullet fragment from Clay was burned in there.

 

[MiguelM]

He had a lot of time to go back and cover things up, I imagine he's not stupid enough to have googled on his own devices but his search history on <something> would have been pretty detailed I'd have thought.

Still, leaves a big piece of his story hinging on an actual expert in bones not being able to identify enough. They simply have to demonstrate a gunshot wound anywhere on Hill to have the story fall apart. I wouldn't want my freedom hinging on that.

That is why I believe Lynn knew what he was doing re disposal and elimination of evidence.

 

[Kurve]

Still, leaves a big piece of his story hinging on an actual expert in bones not being able to identify enough. They simply have to demonstrate a gunshot wound anywhere on Hill to have the story fall apart. I wouldn't want my freedom hinging on that.

The story he's given is incredible enough, if they were both shot he could have said so and given another incredible story that the gun went off straight through Hill's neck or something and hit Clay in the face.

Firing at very close range, if one was directly behind the other it's not impossible.

 

[GardenGnome]

The latest court proceedings update… 15mins ago, nothing that we don’t already know, but the article might be informative for those who’ve recently joined this thread.

Greg Lynn trial: cause of campers’ deaths unable to be determined due to ‘obliterated’ remains, court told | Victoria | The Guardian

Former Jetstar pilot has pleaded not guilty to murdering Russell Hill and Carol Clay in 2020

amp.theguardian.com

 

[GladdyDee]

But the trailer wasn't used in the murder. It was used to move the bodies to Grants HA for which GL fully admits to doing so.

They can't prove how they died. Forensics admitted that. He did such a good job at burning and fragmenting bodies.

If he was in such a panic, would he have not just buried them then the bodies would help prove his story?

IMO, he knew exactly how to remove any evidence. He then creates his own narrative to fit.

Edit:"Called to give evidence, forensic pathologist Dr Melanie Archer told the jury more than 2000 bone fragments located in December 2021 were identified as the missing pair". That is pretty calculated IMO.

Yep going back cos more concerned about what is found - it seems to me - more than concerned about being found. Hmmm IMO

 

[GardenGnome]

Could someone please upload an aerial shot (or map sketch) of both RH/CC & GL campsites? I know it’s been on the thread much earlier but would be useful to re-visit.

I’d always envisioned GL campsite on the left of RH/CC campsite, but given the talk of gunshots from the front of RH vehicle, it seems my thoughts were not correct. Thanks

 

[GardenGnome]

Keen for another colourful update highcountry. Your detailed commentary so far has been much appreciated. Did you attend today?

 

[jason_recliner]

Smartest play is have a level of truth to it that forensic evidence can't disprove.

Nup, smartest play (when you've already done something extremely stupid for which you will be locked up for a very, very long time) is to try to reduce your culpability to the extent possible.

Look at it another way. Why obliterate and incinerate the very bones which would otherwise be the only possible proof that you stabbed and didn't shoot one of your victims?

 

[faible]

Nup, smartest play (when you've already done something extremely stupid for which you will be locked up for a very, very long time) is to try to reduce your culpability to the extent possible.

Look at it another way. Why obliterate and incinerate the very bones which would otherwise be the only possible proof that you stabbed and didn't shoot one of your victims?

Because for almost 18 months you thought you'd gotten away with it entirely?

 

[jason_recliner]

Because for almost 18 months you thought you'd gotten away with it entirely?

That doesn't make sense at all. Why would you obliterate and burn bone because you thought you'd gotten away with it?

 

[MC Bad Genius]

That is not in dispute. Of course anyone from any walk of life can murder one or many. A Pilot has a huge responsibility every time he gets into that seat to pilot a plane. Certainly more than any other high profile profession.. Pilots who fly the bigger wide bellied planes can have over 400 people’s lives in their control for a very short span of time. A rogue Surgeon might do one at a time but it would take a while. A cop might do a crowd but again, hard to reach the dizzy heights of as many innocent victims as plane passengers.

The point I was making these people are highly trained, expected to act calmly and rationally in a crisis in the best interests of a huge amount of people. So what happened to this fellow. He was mid career, flew international flights, He had all the training and knowledge to handle a bizarre “accidental” death event of 2 innocent people.

IMO He shat in his own nest. He destroyed any hope of vindicating his story that it was a total stuff up but not wilful muder. IMO

Forensics would have done their intricate science and provided the reinforcement of Lynn’s story.

Instead by his own admission, he trashed the scene, hootfooted
it, interfered with the bodies, hid them, burnt them, pulverised their ashes but why ? He must have known it might be a bit difficult to justify his actions post the incident at the camp, rather than perhaps tell it like it happened if it was in fact a bizarre accident.

Yeah, I think the average pilot has a higher-than-average IQ, but I don't think you can use that to discount that one of them could be capable of murder and/or botching a cover-up.

For what it's worth, I've known quite a few pilots and I wouldn't say that any of them were particularly intelligent, a couple of them are pretty loose units and one of them is perhaps the most randomly unpredictable person I've ever met (he's still one of my closest friends though).

It's only anecdotal, but it shows that there are definite outliers!

 

[Lady O]

They can't prove how they died. Forensics admitted that. He did such a good job at burning and fragmenting bodies.

If he was in such a panic, would he have not just buried them then the bodies would help prove his story?

IMO, he knew exactly how to remove any evidence. He then creates his own narrative to fit.

Edit:"Called to give evidence, forensic pathologist Dr Melanie Archer told the jury more than 2000 bone fragments located in December 2021 were identified as the missing pair". That is pretty calculated IMO.

Does anyone know how he "fragmented" the burnt remains? They look about 2.5cm x 1.5cm or thereabouts, so I think it would have taken a lot of time to turn the bones of two people into "fragments". I'm thinking a hammer but I would have expected the forensic specialist to give this information.

 

[Lady O]

Could someone please upload an aerial shot (or map sketch) of both RH/CC & GL campsites? I know it’s been on the thread much earlier but would be useful to re-visit.

I’d always envisioned GL campsite on the left of RH/CC campsite, but given the talk of gunshots from the front of RH vehicle, it seems my thoughts were not correct. Thanks

These ones?

 

[theouthouse]

What's to say CC wasn't killed first?

My ponderings are that GL might have been to the point of irrational reasoning, knows about RH and his past with hunting accidents. Decides, well hey looks like history's about to repeat for old Russell. So GL sets about hunting CC down and kills her by headshot. RH witnesses this and is distraught. GL approaches with gun and a knife on belt intent to kill RH slowly making him suffer for crossing paths with GL, words are said from GL most likely not pleasant before GL kills him via knife and bleeds him out..

Well that's how I think the movie goes.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Possible causes of dispute:

1. Lynn took best camping spot
2. Camping too close
3. Making too much noise
4. Illegal hunting
5. Drone footage
6. Noise of Drone
7. Lynn didn't like colour of drone
8. Hill was a cantankerous old git
9. Lynn asked to have a go flying the drone and Hill said no
10. Lynn made a pass at Clay and she rejected his advances
11. Lynn made a pass at Clay and she didn't reject his advances
12. Landcruiser vs Patrol
13. Bee keeping
14. Mirror was reflecting in Lynn's face
15. Offensive odour of campsite cooking
16. Hill was still fuming from interaction with weed sprayer
17. Hill was laughing at Lynn trying to reverse his trailer (we've all been there)
18. Hill and Lynn both had a thing for the weed sprayer
19. Hill claimed JetStar is a clown airline for clowns run by a bunch of clowns

13. Seems viable