Youf/Academy Thread

[go you pups]

Article on Harry winks and Poch goes on to say how he doesn't want others coaching his best prospects and would rather them in that 18-21 age bracket stay with him and play 10-20 times for the season + youth football. Just because Kane worked with so many loans doesn't mean it always does. He'd definitely have hardened up from it all but can't say his days at Millwall or Leyton Orient would have been technically brilliant for his development

He was actually good at those clubs

Norwich and Leicester would've been poor for him

 

[jd2010]

He was actually good at those clubs

Norwich and Leicester would've been poor for him

But I don't think they taught him a whole lot more than he learnt under Les and Sherwood

 

[go you pups]

But I don't think they taught him a whole lot more than he learnt under Les and Sherwood

Fair enough

What is old Les up to these days?

 

[jd2010]

Fair enough

What is old Les up to these days?

Director of football at QPR I think

 

[Jatz]

Director of football at QPR I think

Sure is.

The reason Kane didn't work out for us was that he wasn't very good back then.

 

[jd2010]

Sure is.

The reason Kane didn't work out for us was that he wasn't very good back then.

Yeah I don't think the Leyton orient coaches with all due respect would be credited too much for producing a golden boot winner. His work before his first loan and after returning from his last one would be where he got the most benefit

 

[moomba]

It's not so much what you're taught, it's about getting experience playing against man. How to use your body, how to ride a tackle, how to work in a proper team environment where results matter.

Youth football is great for coaching, but you can't coach a lot of what playing senior football teaches you.

 

[kangaspurs]

Fair enough, you're not traveling too well in the U23s. Down near the bottom of the ladder.

Not many of the regular U23/PL2 looked to be playing.
The THFC academy Twitter (not club affiliated) thought only 1-2 of that team could make the first team.

Striker Shayon Harrison was withdrawn to play league cup in midweek (Kane injury I suspect played a part). No Onomah, Will Miller, Winks, Carter-Vickers. So under strength, would also have to watch as they like testing them by playing them out of position from time to time.

Will Miller is out on loan at Burton and Harrison is injured. Sterling is also injured who would be expected to play regularly.

It's strange, our best players at that age group - Winks, Onomah and Carter-Vickers - rarely, if ever, play in the PL2 and spend all their time training with the first team without actually playing many games. You would think that Poch could still teach them his way of playing while still giving them plenty of match time in the PL2, but I guess he still thinks they could gain bad habits by playing at that level.

The only two players that play in our PL2 team that are of that age and in the first team squad are Harrison and Walker-Peters. The rest of the team are either really talented 17 years olds that are still eligible for the U/18's, like Edwards, Shashhoua and Oakley-Booth (who is actually 16) and physically out of their depth against other teams 20-22 year olds at that level or average players that are actually in that age group, but will be lucky to end up as regular League 1/2 footballers like Amos, Loft, Joe Pritchard etc.

When you consider all that, it's not really a surprise that we struggle at that level.

The positive though is that results don't really matter at that level, it's all about producing footballers that will go on to become options for the first team. In that regard, our academy is a massive success, with plenty looking like they could go on to become top level PL players, particularly Winks, CCV, Onomah, Edwards and Walker-Peters.

 

[jd2010]

It's not so much what you're taught, it's about getting experience playing against man. How to use your body, how to ride a tackle, how to work in a proper team environment where results matter.

Youth football is great for coaching, but you can't coach a lot of what playing senior football teaches you.

There's also not many sides in the lower divisions who play progressive football so whilst learning to play men is taught, so too is get it up there long to the big man & get stuck in there and get a foot in at all costs which goes exactly against what the parent club teaches from the age of 8 through to the senior side

 

[jd2010]

FWIW we did find a few sides like Swindon and Brentford under Warburton who played the 'right way' and we had a lot of success sending players there who came back in a better place than they left. That can't be said about Kane and any of his loans

 

[Jatz]

FWIW we did find a few sides like Swindon and Brentford under Warburton who played the 'right way' and we had a lot of success sending players there who came back in a better place than they left. That can't be said about Kane and any of his loans

That's not because teams weren't playing 'the right way' though.

In our experience with Kane, he just wasn't very good. Why would we play him then?

 

[jd2010]

That's not because teams weren't playing 'the right way' though.

In our experience with Kane, he just wasn't very good. Why would we play him then?

Yeah because he was coming from being coached as a future target man who'd be suited to the old school brand of football. If he was continued to be coached as nothing more than the next Bobby Zamora I don't think he'd be playing PL football let alone an England international. It took 'arry and Sherwood to tell him to focus on getting quicker and being more than just a lower div target man which he was being groomed towards at Orient and Millwall

 

[jod23]

Just dicked on Sunderland U23s 3-0.

Ings x 2 and Alexander-Arnold again from RB with a cracking goal. 17 year old scouser who has a big future.

 

[Magma]

u/23's are a bit irrelevant though except for the real youngsters at that level.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

U18's had a nice 2-0 win against Stoke. The Angel and Chong were dominant. Indy Boonen has been promoted to the U23's which is well deserved.

 

[jod23]

U18's had a nice 2-0 win against Stoke. The Angel and Chong were dominant. Indy Boonen has been promoted to the U23's which is well deserved.

Our U23s meet next mate. In about three weeks I think.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Our U23s meet next mate. In about three weeks I think.

that statement shows how ****ed up youth football is in this country. We have no strikers but are pretty good defensively and in midfield.

 

[jod23]

that statement shows how stuffed up youth football is in this country. We have no strikers but are pretty good defensively and in midfield.

Yeah I dont get why there are so few fixtures and why they are so far apart.

We are pretty good from front to back at the moment.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Yeah I dont get why there are so few fixtures and why they are so far apart.

We are pretty good from front to back at the moment.

you'll have to be to finally beat us

 

[jod23]

you'll have to be to finally beat us

I have no idea of our record against you guys at youth level. Is it not good?

 

[Bojan KantKick]

It's not good but the games are usually pretty competitive.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

I have no idea of our record against you guys at youth level. Is it not good?

It's not good but the games are usually pretty competitive.

 

[jod23]

It's not good but the games are usually pretty competitive.

Be interesting to see how we go. We're ahead of you on the table in the U23s and after losing our first two games, we have won four in a row since.

 

[kangaspurs]

A bit of context for our poor results in the PL2 this season:

Tottenham Academy ‏@thfcacademy Sep 23
Ages of Tottenham U23 starters this evening: 18, 19, 18, 19, 18, 17, 18, 16, 18, 16, 18.

I know there are a few teams that would also have young teams, but there are also a lot that have 20-23 year olds in their teams. The problem is worse when it is widely believed that of that group there are only the two 16 year olds and one of the older guys who are expected to make it. With the exception of Walker-Peters the back 4 is especially poor, as are the CM's.

I think we have high hopes for the current group of 16-17 year olds, rather than the year or two above so that's why they're being pushed up to the U/23's to get better experience, even if it is to the detriment of the team. There's also the problem of the best players in our PL2 age - Onomah, Winks, Carter-Vickers - being with the first team and not playing U23s.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

There's also the problem of the best players in our PL2 age - Onomah, Winks, Carter-Vickers - being with the first team and not playing U23s.

Surely that's not a problem though, that's what the academy is there for.
To provide the first team with players. Which it is doing.