"Young side" - enough!

[ImperialPurple]

This is an excerpt from Harvey's press conference after the game:

"Our young side got a bit of a run-on in the last quarter. We gave ourselves a little glimmer of hope ... then it was taken away from us quite quickly," Harvey said after the game.

"We couldn't stay composed in our decision-making, either when we were going inside the forward 50 or just in general play.

"(And) we mucked around with the ball too much, particularly into the breeze in the second quarter."

Harvey said his side needed to develop the confidence to take the game on and punish opposition sides with decisive ball movement.

"When we've got the ball, we're not doing enough," he said.

"We're not hurting the opposition when we should be, and then when we do turn the ball over, we're getting punished quickly.

"(Garrick) Ibbotson, (Stephen) Hill, (Nic) Suban, (Clayton) Hinkley – we need them to take the game on and start to create momentum for us.

"They need to have confidence in things like ball movement to be able to do that."

Hill was one Fremantle player who took the game by the scruff of the neck in the final quarter, dragging his side back into the contest.

"They're the sorts of signs you look for – he had the ability to try to get the team going and create that spark," Harvey said.

http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7009/newsid/74827/default.aspx

"Our young side got a bit of a run-on in the last quarter."

Now I know what he's getting at. Today there were 5 players with 6 or less games to their names (Broughton, Hill, Suban, Hinkley, Head). Then there was also Palmer and Ibbo with just the 23 games each. So, close to a quarter of the team today had 6 games or less and over a third had 23 games or less...

This is fact.

It is also fact that behind these guys, there are another 18 players with less than 20 games against their names... 13 of which have the grand total of zero games each.

We are a young list... and depth is a major issue for us, as some of these guys still have the bodies of boys.

However, we were also represented by:
Gilmore (41)
Peake (60)
Bradley (61)
Crowley (75)
Johnson (77)
Dodd (79)

Mundy (89)
Schammer (107)

Sandilands (118)
McPharlin (136)
Grover (149)

Hase (169)
Solly (193)
Pav (197)
Taz (201)

Head is an exception, cos at 26, he should be "better" or else he should quite simply just GTFO.... but these guys need to do more - especially those in the 40-80 game range.

Gilmore and Head just need to get smart or GTFO. Same goes for the absent Thornton, Browne and pea-hearted Murphy.

Peake, Bradley, Crowley, Dodd - they need to provide so much more than what they do. They need to be clean with their skills, they need to hit targets by hand and foot, they need to NOT sell teammates into trouble, they need to be making quicker, smarter decisions...

It was a much better performance by Johnson today, but both he and Mundy - who are now considered "leaders" and "senior players" need to be much more consistent...

Schammer - can't fault his endeavour and attack on the footy. He may not have the silkiest skills, but he is a lot better than he once was. I no longer cringe when he gets the ball.

Can't fault Sandi; McPharlin is a rock (who had a brain fart today... ) who should be left down back, and only swung forward for brief periods now and again; Grover is a backman full stop end of story (who also needs to be smarter at times).

Hase is getting back to his best, can't fault him - smart, smart player; Solly tried his guts out today, but skills were not as good as they can be - slowing down a touch as he ages??... Pav was much better today - played where he should be, and taz was okay, as he has been all season so far, but he doesn't know if he is Arthur or Martha getting shunted backwards, forwards, backwards, forwards...

But this part concerns me...:

"(Garrick) Ibbotson, (Stephen) Hill, (Nic) Suban, (Clayton) Hinkley – we need them to take the game on and start to create momentum for us.

"They need to have confidence in things like ball movement to be able to do that."

FFS Harvs - from where I sit in Blk 153, these young guys are trying to do all that - but it's their dumb-arse team-mates who have no fecking idea what's going on. Those dumb-arses in the 40-80 game range. Those dumb-arses who continually take the wrong option, kick a half volley or kick it over the leading forward's head; handball to a player who is seriously under the hammer and who gets smashed face first into the turf, the dumb-arses who continually sell them into trouble....

The Dumb-Arses. Who are just dumb footballers....


It's not the young kids who are ferking up - it's these middle tier players who just can not seem to lift themselves out of their mediocrity.

So Harvs, please do not use the "young side" as an excuse - cos that is all it sounds like, an excuse.

The members and supporters will back you in, and back the team in, if you give the lemon and sarse to the dumb-arses and you, yourself, back the kids in. We might lose, but at least we will have had a go with players who are not proven dumb-arses. I'm not saying that there should be wholesale changes and we go into a game with half the team with 30 games or less, and the other half with 150+. That would be suicide...

However, if we are in rebuilding mode, which clearly we are; then drop the dumb-arses if they screw up, and bring in a kid who has been working hard and doing well at WAFL level. Maybe the kid might just get a couple of games, but it gives them a taste, and it makes them hungry. It also lets the dumb-arses know that if they do not perform, they will make way for a youngster - who might just turn out to be better than they are, and then it's bye-bye AFL career.

Instill some confidence in the kids. Don't go telling the media "we lost cos we are a young side. The kids need to grab the game and get some momentum happening."

This sends the wrong message to the young players. If they hear it long enough, they will start to believe it - we are losing cos we are all young.

This was (IMO) one of CC's problems. He was forever banging on about Pav, McPharlin, Hase, Des, JLo, Haddrill, Woods, Sandi, Hayden etc being a "young group who will be together for 10 years. We lose every now and again because we are a young group...." etc, etc, etc... Suddenly you turn around and these guys aren't young anymore, and we have had a couple of very brief runs up the ladder, only to fall back down heavier than before...

Don't blame the kids, or use the kids as an excuse. Instill the confidence in them that they are winners, that they are taking this club forward, that they have everthing ahead of them, and nothing to lose; take risks and enjoy your footy.

If you must "make excuses", point the finger at the real culprits - the dumb-arses who are taking this club nowhere... Don't use the "young side" excuse - it is only partly right, and will soon start to sound pathetic.

 

[Lach72]

*Stands an applauds*

FFS, he could narrow that down.

"We have 6 players who are complete crabs...next week/draft, goneski.

Anything further? No? Thanks for your time"

Door closes behind coach

 

[sabre_ac]

While we are reliant on players with just over a season under their belt (Palmer and Ibbotson) or players who are only just now finding their feet (Mundy and Schammer)..We are an experienced side.

The term "Young" is irrelevant.

 

[Mark_Harvey]

watch your mouth keyboard warrior

 

[Lach72]

Hello.
Haven't we met on the main board?

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

This is an excerpt from Harvey's press conference after the game:



http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7009/newsid/74827/default.aspx

"Our young side got a bit of a run-on in the last quarter."

Now I know what he's getting at. Today there were 5 players with 6 or less games to their names (Broughton, Hill, Suban, Hinkley, Head). Then there was also Palmer and Ibbo with just the 23 games each. So, close to a quarter of the team today had 6 games or less and over a third had 23 games or less...

This is fact.

It is also fact that behind these guys, there are another 18 players with less than 20 games against their names... 13 of which have the grand total of zero games each.

We are a young list... and depth is a major issue for us, as some of these guys still have the bodies of boys.

However, we were also represented by:
Gilmore (41)
Peake (60)
Bradley (61)
Crowley (75)
Johnson (77)
Dodd (79)

Mundy (89)
Schammer (107)

Sandilands (118)
McPharlin (136)
Grover (149)

Hase (169)
Solly (193)
Pav (197)
Taz (201)

Head is an exception, cos at 26, he should be "better" or else he should quite simply just GTFO.... but these guys need to do more - especially those in the 40-80 game range.

Gilmore and Head just need to get smart or GTFO. Same goes for the absent Thornton, Browne and pea-hearted Murphy.

Peake, Bradley, Crowley, Dodd - they need to provide so much more than what they do. They need to be clean with their skills, they need to hit targets by hand and foot, they need to NOT sell teammates into trouble, they need to be making quicker, smarter decisions...

It was a much better performance by Johnson today, but both he and Mundy - who are now considered "leaders" and "senior players" need to be much more consistent...

Schammer - can't fault his endeavour and attack on the footy. He may not have the silkiest skills, but he is a lot better than he once was. I no longer cringe when he gets the ball.

Can't fault Sandi; McPharlin is a rock (who had a brain fart today... ) who should be left down back, and only swung forward for brief periods now and again; Grover is a backman full stop end of story (who also needs to be smarter at times).

Hase is getting back to his best, can't fault him - smart, smart player; Solly tried his guts out today, but skills were not as good as they can be - slowing down a touch as he ages??... Pav was much better today - played where he should be, and taz was okay, as he has been all season so far, but he doesn't know if he is Arthur or Martha getting shunted backwards, forwards, backwards, forwards...

But this part concerns me...:



FFS Harvs - from where I sit in Blk 153, these young guys are trying to do all that - but it's their dumb-arse team-mates who have no fecking idea what's going on. Those dumb-arses in the 40-80 game range. Those dumb-arses who continually take the wrong option, kick a half volley or kick it over the leading forward's head; handball to a player who is seriously under the hammer and who gets smashed face first into the turf, the dumb-arses who continually sell them into trouble....

The Dumb-Arses. Who are just dumb footballers....


It's not the young kids who are ferking up - it's these middle tier players who just can not seem to lift themselves out of their mediocrity.

So Harvs, please do not use the "young side" as an excuse - cos that is all it sounds like, an excuse.

The members and supporters will back you in, and back the team in, if you give the lemon and sarse to the dumb-arses and you, yourself, back the kids in. We might lose, but at least we will have had a go with players who are not proven dumb-arses. I'm not saying that there should be wholesale changes and we go into a game with half the team with 30 games or less, and the other half with 150+. That would be suicide...

However, if we are in rebuilding mode, which clearly we are; then drop the dumb-arses if they screw up, and bring in a kid who has been working hard and doing well at WAFL level. Maybe the kid might just get a couple of games, but it gives them a taste, and it makes them hungry. It also lets the dumb-arses know that if they do not perform, they will make way for a youngster - who might just turn out to be better than they are, and then it's bye-bye AFL career.

Instill some confidence in the kids. Don't go telling the media "we lost cos we are a young side. The kids need to grab the game and get some momentum happening."

This sends the wrong message to the young players. If they hear it long enough, they will start to believe it - we are losing cos we are all young.

This was (IMO) one of CC's problems. He was forever banging on about Pav, McPharlin, Hase, Des, JLo, Haddrill, Woods, Sandi, Hayden etc being a "young group who will be together for 10 years. We lose every now and again because we are a young group...." etc, etc, etc... Suddenly you turn around and these guys aren't young anymore, and we have had a couple of very brief runs up the ladder, only to fall back down heavier than before...

Don't blame the kids, or use the kids as an excuse. Instill the confidence in them that they are winners, that they are taking this club forward, that they have everthing ahead of them, and nothing to lose; take risks and enjoy your footy.

If you must "make excuses", point the finger at the real culprits - the dumb-arses who are taking this club nowhere... Don't use the "young side" excuse - it is only partly right, and will soon start to sound pathetic.

well said

 

[Rob]

FFS Harvs - from where I sit in Blk 153, these young guys are trying to do all that - but it's their dumb-arse team-mates who have no fecking idea what's going on. Those dumb-arses in the 40-80 game range. Those dumb-arses who continually take the wrong option, kick a half volley or kick it over the leading forward's head; handball to a player who is seriously under the hammer and who gets smashed face first into the turf, the dumb-arses who continually sell them into trouble....

The Dumb-Arses. Who are just dumb footballers....

Picked it like a dirty nose.

 

[SupersonicDocker]

Good post...

Too many times, guys like Hill and Suban were ignored... This annoys me a lot as all too often we take the kick to pav with 3 guys on him instead of Hill with no one near him choice.

Fremantle needs to play a Fremantle game. Sadly i do not expect to see that this season as I am sure Harvey has pencilled at least 8 of the guys out there today to not play ever again if he had his way.

The only thing that concerns me at the moment is his persistence with playing most of our worst disposal accuracy players in our backline.

Head, Thornton, Dodd, Grover (not a bad player just skills like d.glass), Gilmore etc... you will never win a game of footy when they are the ones dictating play/momentum. The others lift if their is quality movement out the back.

Also, i hate to say it. But Solomon needs to go. His skills have dropped to a percentage that can no longer warrant selection. I would rather DeBoer be in the team.

Also Duffield should have never been dropped whilst head retained his place.

 

[Docker Clint]

Today was the first game I've managed to get to/watch and I can see why everyone is bagging Head. I actually feel sorry for the bloke, he looks completely at sea out there. Remember that he doesn't pick himself.

I think the long held belief that we have a "talented list" that just isn't right between the ears has got to go. Who determines that someone is "talented"? Not many of the blokes listed in the OP have really stood up on many occasions and we have to accept that they're really not that good.

 

[Belnakor]

Also Duffield should have never been dropped whilst head retained his place.

pretty sure he got dropped for dropping his head and sherking a few contests, he'll be back next week.

 

[Bradesmaen]

What you say is correct IP, but I'd rather Harvey use the young excuse than come out in the media and publically blast some players for being useless. Do it in house otherwise we'll seem like an even bigger rabble.

 

[Ogrebait]

Spot on Brades. I think Harvey is just trying to deflect media criticism. John Mitchell is hard as nails but he doesn't criticise players through the media.

I would prefer Harvey be a bit more accurate with his details though, otherwise it does just comes across as an excuse.

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

Top post. Excellent work IP - you've hit on some realy good points, and I agree that we have a bit of a furphy going around that we are 'young'.

What you say is correct IP, but I'd rather Harvey use the young excuse than come out in the media and publically blast some players for being useless. Do it in house otherwise we'll seem like an even bigger rabble.

Fine - so why did he come out and have a go at the younguns in the press conference??? Surely if he is going to follow your approach (which I understand but don't agree with), he would not have named any of the players as needing to improve!!

And as to "seeming like we are a rabble" - given our games are nationally televised, I'm fairly sure most people are aware we're under pressure already.

If Harvs isn't clear in demanding better performances from his mid tier players, it just leaves a vacuum where everybody stands around awkwardly looking at each other mouthing platitudes like "we have to get better" or "we all have to lift"...

Spot on Brades. I think Harvey is just trying to deflect media criticism. John Mitchell is hard as nails but he doesn't criticise players through the media.
I would prefer Harvey be a bit more accurate with his details though, otherwise it does just comes across as an excuse.

And hasn't that made such a difference to the players respect for Mitchell (read the Anderson report). And yes, Harvey getting his facts wrong just makes him look even more under pressure, and attracts more crabs.

 

[Stronzo]

Pretty much agree with you IP, though I think Peake has been one of the few mid tier players to stand up. He's probably anther one being played out of position.

Ibbo was a damn sight better than the last 2 weeks, but there is still a great deal of room for improvement. Lets hope he doesn't stall like Johnson well and truly has.

 

[Ogrebait]

The Force player's lack of respect for Mitchell is nothing to do with his "failure" to criticise them publicly, it's about him acting like a dick.

The moment you start criticising individual players in public, the media runs with it, stereotypes are formed and publicly reinforced (Robert Walls syndrome) and become almost impossible to live down. It's not worth it. Better off challenging them but keeping the sprays for behind closed doors.

 

[jenny61_99]

As a matter of interest, yesterday Freo's average age was 24 years 7 months, Adelaides was 24 years 9 months.

 

[samseenee]

As a matter of interest, yesterday Freo's average age was 24 years 7 months, Adelaides was 24 years 9 months.

Fair call Jenny.


People forget that the Crows had anumber of youngsters out there yesterday too. Harvey cant keep using the 'kids' line @ Freo as an excuse. Its our middle tier players that needed to be reminded that what they are doing is just not good enough!

 

[jenny61_99]

Fair call Jenny.


People forget that the Crows had anumber of youngsters out there yesterday too. Harvey cant keep using the 'kids' line @ Freo as an excuse. Its our middle tier players that needed to be reminded that what they are doing is just not good enough!

Look, I think he can use it as an excuse to some degree but it wasn't the only reason Freo lost yesterday. We had a massive clean-out last year too and we know that by playing our young guys, our games will be unpredictable. One week they'll be sensational and the next week go missing (same with our seniors!). Harvs needs to go back to basics and Freo supporters (who seem to be very loyal) need to hang in there. You've got some exciting players coming through.

 

[rgauci]

Harvey calling for the young players to take the game on is a little bit confusing.

From what i saw, the young players were the ones taking the game on, its the senior players who were too defensive and didn't try and break the lines.

 

[dominguez]

Adelaide only had ten players with 50+ games to their credit so we were by far the more experienced side.

 

[sansian]

i think yesterday we saw glimpses of what the future may hold, and I for one am damn excited!

Although it was disappointing to see it was mainly the seasoned players that were responsible for the shocking kicks and handballs.

 

[The Night Shift]

Nicely put IP... and delivered a bit of fire as well.

Unfortuately we are stucj with some of these mid tier muppets who don;t seem to lift.

If we play all the kids without them earning it them we may not instill the type of work ethic we want. We are stuck with the WAFL standard players to the end of the season. Use them , as you suggested to get games into the kids and drop them back down so they don't get too smashed in their first season of AFL...

Harveys gotta come up with something to say. We are now cannon fodder for all the sports hacks and footy shows.

What do you think he should employ as his line for the season ?>>?

 

[dominguez]

If we play all the kids without them earning it them we may not instill the type of work ethic we want. We are stuck with the WAFL standard players to the end of the season. Use them , as you suggested to get games into the kids and drop them back down so they don't get too smashed in their first season of AFL...

Broughton was good yesterday though when we have had to put up with duds like Head, Thornton and Browne. If someone like DeBoer comes in and doesn't work hard enough and there aren't other kids available then by all means go to the hacks, but don't throw away games just to make the the young guys earn their spot.

Harveys gotta come up with something to say. We are now cannon fodder for all the sports hacks and footy shows.

What do you think he should employ as his line for the season ?>>?

Just speak without saying anything like other coaches and politicians do. Complaining about a young side is as bad as blaming a loss on injuries IMO.

 

[freocuz]

What do you think he should employ as his line for the season ?>>?

How about "We are at the start of a rebuild of the player list. It will be an exciting 5 year journey"?

While I agree with you IP, the after-match press conference is a place to say stuff without saying anything. Harvey was probably too honest last year at these things and got crucified in the media. He has simply learnt how to play the game now, and is doing nothing other than what every other coach does.

The probelm we have is obvious. We have to play guys like Head/Dodd/Murphy/Browne/Duffield/Thornton/Gilmore because we can't play guys like Ballantyne/Headland/Mayne/Bucovaz/Hall/Ruffles/Walters. When you are a young squad and you get injuries to guys you want to pick, it means blokes who you don't want to pick get selected. Having youth now will be fantastic for us in years to come, right now it's not helping our results.

It's very frustrating to see the 50-100 gamers making the same mistakes game after game, but the fact is that we can't throw 10 skinny kids to the lions each week.

 

[dominguez]

How about "We are at the start of a rebuild of the player list. It will be an exciting 5 year journey"?

I assume you're joking there?

He has simply learnt how to play the game now, and is doing nothing other than what every other coach does.

No he hasn't, other coaches don't whinge about a young side every 2 minutes.