Opinion What do you think our Draft Strategy will be? (Poll)

[Pendles!]

"The better players" you mention are judged according to their schoolboy footy skills and draft camp results.

The advantage with bringing in 6 rookies is that the club can see how they respond to the club environment, how they cope with being a full time professional athlete, and the club getting a better idea of their strengths and weaknesses by testing them in-house.

And then just prior to the start of season next year two lucky rookies can be elevated (as what happened with Hudson and Frost at the start of the 2013 season).

What's complicating that is that we get two LTI elevations anyway for Caff and Scharenberg. I'd have thought that Gault would get one of those.

So if we do go down the "maximum rookie" route then we'll have 7 rookies (6 cat A: Gault + 5 newbies; 1 cat B: Cox) and we can elevate 4 at start of the year, 1 mid year, and 2 will need to go back onto the rookie list when Caff and Scharenberg come back.

Yeah I get your point but doubt that club would want to go down that route to be honest.

 

[jackcass]

SO, do I understand this correctly. If we use pick 30 than more than likely we need to delist someone?

Can we wait and see who is available at 30 and make that decision than? I mean, the club might be hedging their bets and should that player be available than Player x gets delisted and we draft or do delistings need to finalised before.

I'll admit I don't know anything about the process.

If we use pick 30 that'll take us to 39 of a maximum 40 on the senior list. The question is whether we use pick 48 in the draft or upgrade Frost with whatever our last pick is and pass at 48.

 

[jackcass]

I think we elevated Dwyer last year.

and Oxley with pick 92.

In terms of the 3 on/off I think it's actually a minimum of 3 off the list. Can be filled any way a club decides including trade, draft, or rookie upgrades.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Yeah I get your point but doubt that club would want to go down that route to be honest.

They did that in 2012 and it worked out well with Hudson being promoted as promised, Frost winning Willy Wonka's golden ticket (despite being the last rookie), Dwyer coming in and filling the role and playing a heap of games, Oxley getting promoted ...

... Ironically, the only one who's not on our list anymore is the first one we picked up (Martin)

 

[MyManLynch]

We could very well be out of the draft by pick 5 ... So Jack Frost is an option for pick 30.

We currently have 33 on the senior list.

We need minimum 5 to fill out our senior list to fill it out to 38 (maximum 7 to fill in out to 40)

The 5 would be Pick 5, Moore, Varcoe, Greenwood and Frost. In that scenario we'd pick up 5 new category A rookies and retain Gault to make 6 total category A rookies + Mason Cox as a category B rookie.

This was our strategy two years ago.

----

Hine goes into the draft with maximum flexibility.

He could not use picks 30 or 48, and have 6 on our cat A rookie list (as in 2012)

He could use picks 30 or 48, and have 4 on our cat A rookie list (as in 2013)

He could use picks 30 and/or 48 (or even later!), and have up to 6 on our cat A rookie list if the club makes additional delistings (Who would be candidates? Armstrong? ???)

If you add Crisp then our list moves from 33 to 37.
Hence we either use picks 5, 30 & 48 unless we upgrade rookies (Frost).
So I think we will definitely use picks 5 & 30 & then decide whether we upgrade Frost using 48.
I think we have to declare the rookie upgrade by end Oct.
If Hine thinks there is some chance of talent at 48 then he can leave Frost on the rookie list (& upgrade for LTI Scharenberg).
Therefore we would have 2 rookies spaces available (with Frost & Gault).
The max Cat A rookies is now 4 (no longer 6) although the option for 2 nominated rookies still exists.
Also 2 Cat B rookie places open (can have 3) in addition to Cox.
I think we will go in with a list of 40 & 4 Cat A rookies.
So the only question is do we use 48 in the draft or on Frost.

 

[MyManLynch]

They did that in 2012 and it worked out well with Hudson being promoted as promised, Frost winning Willy Wonka's golden ticket (despite being the last rookie), Dwyer coming in and filling the role and playing a heap of games, Oxley getting promoted ...

... Ironically, the only one who's not on our list anymore is the first one we picked up (Martin)

I think the landscape has changed since then. We no longer have 2 teenage ruckmen that required the mature age Hudson as back up. Plus I think out first live pick in the 2012 draft was 50 (we traded out 25), hence we only held very late draft picks.
This year we have pick 30 & 48 that Hine will want to use.
48 is the only? Draft or Rookie upgrade.

 

[partypie]

So the only question is do we use 48 in the draft or on Frost.

It's not a question - Frost signed a new 2-year contract late in the 2014 season so he has to be promoted.

Someone is definitely going to get delisted before the draft as we'll obviously be using pick 48 (it's far too early a pick to use on a rookie upgrade).

 

[jackcass]

It's not a question - Frost signed a new 2-year contract late in the 2014 season so he has to be promoted.

Someone is definitely going to get delisted before the draft as we'll obviously be using pick 48 (it's far too early a pick to use on a rookie upgrade).

Yes Frost signed an extension but that doesn't automatically equate to him requiring promotion to the senior list unless specifically stated in the contract and technically Frost would be added with the clubs final pick which is currently listed at 121, they would then have to pass on pick 48.

Agree, 48 is a reasonable pick, especially if you consider where we got Langdon and Marsh last year, but I don't think it's obvious we'll use it and I can't see who should be cut unless Ramsay agrees to go back to the rookie list.

Time will tell, first list lodgement is 31 October.

 

[Pendles!]

They did that in 2012 and it worked out well with Hudson being promoted as promised, Frost winning Willy Wonka's golden ticket (despite being the last rookie), Dwyer coming in and filling the role and playing a heap of games, Oxley getting promoted ...

... Ironically, the only one who's not on our list anymore is the first one we picked up (Martin)

Yeah but we didn't by pass on two top 50 picks in a deep draft to do it. I'd be very dissappointed if we did.

 

[Pendles!]

If you add Crisp then our list moves from 33 to 37.
Hence we either use picks 5, 30 & 48 unless we upgrade rookies (Frost).
So I think we will definitely use picks 5 & 30 & then decide whether we upgrade Frost using 48.
I think we have to declare the rookie upgrade by end Oct.
If Hine thinks there is some chance of talent at 48 then he can leave Frost on the rookie list (& upgrade for LTI Scharenberg).
Therefore we would have 2 rookies spaces available (with Frost & Gault).
The max Cat A rookies is now 4 (no longer 6) although the option for 2 nominated rookies still exists.
Also 2 Cat B rookie places open (can have 3) in addition to Cox.
I think we will go in with a list of 40 & 4 Cat A rookies.
So the only question is do we use 48 in the draft or on Frost.

Personally I'd be dropping off a senior player and going with 48. There's usually some good talent around that mark.

 

[Old Spice]

There are now 37 on the senior list including Maxwell, Moore, Ramsey, Oxley, Gault, Frost and Marsh in some confusing double book-keeping. Let's subtract Maxy, and Moore who will come into the team at draft time - that leaves 35.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/season/players/seniors

Pick 5, Moore, 30, Greenwood, Varcoe and Crisp bump that back up to 41. The maximum of senior players is 40 (4 rookies), the minimum is 38 (6 rookies) for a list total of 44.

So already we need to lose one player, presumably from Ramsey, Oxley, Gault and Marsh. Maybe Armstrong can be relegated to the rookie list meaning we are back at 40, but if Frost is elevated with a late pick we need to ditch or relegate another player.

I reckon Ramsey and Oxley are in trouble here, at the very best relegated to the rookie list.

 

[partypie]

Yes Frost signed an extension but that doesn't automatically equate to him requiring promotion to the senior list

Hmm - would he have signed a deal to keep him on a rookie scale wage for the first year of that two year contract? Can we get away with playing him for the full season if he's a walk up start in our best 22?

I kind of doubt he'd be on a rookie wage or even the rookie list next year, but I can see what you mean in saying he doesn't -have- to be promoted (I'd just assumed it was for a senior list contract and hadn't accounted for any contractual shenanigans with his rookie status for a third year).

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Gault is not on the Senior List

 

[Horaceg]

Hmm - would he have signed a deal to keep him on a rookie scale wage for the first year of that two year contract? Can we get away with playing him for the full season if he's a walk up start in our best 22?

I kind of doubt he'd be on a rookie wage or even the rookie list next year, but I can see what you mean in saying he doesn't -have- to be promoted (I'd just assumed it was for a senior list contract and hadn't accounted for any contractual shenanigans with his rookie status for a third year).

Frost played all year and should be upgraded, he's done everything and more than asked of him. He is starting 22 next year and will only get better, so he is a lock for me.

 

[KJpie]

Only 2 list spots to fill based on our current list.

OUT: (7) From our 40 man senior list. Lumumba, Maxwell, Ball, Clarke, Beams, Lynch & Hudson (rookie listed but elevated to 40 man senior list)

IN: (5) Greenwood, Varcoe, Crispo, Darcy Moore & Jack Frost (given a 2 year deal, so assumed elevated to senior list for 2015)

I think me may try to move Ramsay onto the rookie list and then elevate him via Long term injury list to Scharenberg.

That would leave 3 live picks 5, 30 & 48. Pick 9 on Darcy Moore and pick 85 for Jack Frost, picks but known picks.

Leaves 2 live rookie picks. Gault & Ramsay on Rookie list.

My understanding also.

 

[partypie]

There are now 37 on the senior list including Maxwell, Moore, Ramsey, Oxley, Gault, Frost and Marsh in some confusing double book-keeping. Let's subtract Maxy, and Moore who will come into the team at draft time - that leaves 35.

I don't pay much attention to the player lists on club websites at this time of the year myself as they tend to jump all over the place and are updated at a snails pace (if at all).

In any case Maxy is obviously retired and couldn't possibly count towards our playing list cap and Gault was a rookie this year, so that takes it down to 33 doesn't it?

Then Greenwood, Varcoe and Crisp take it to 36. Pick 5, 9 (Moore) and 30 take it to 39. I thought Frost would get promoted with the new contract but there is possibly room to play around with his rookie status for another year, given that we've got a likely season-ending injury (for 2015) to Scharenberg already which would allow him to be placed on the LTI list and Frost to be upgraded for the most or all of the 2015 season.

Gault can stay on the rookie list and I think one of Oxley and Ramsay is in line to be delisted and perhaps re-drafted as a rookie (maybe both).

p.s. Marsh is safe - still has this year to run on his initial contract (he was taken in the ND in 2013).

 

[KJpie]

Ramsey is on the Senior List

Un-contracted in 2014 still Dave. As stated by BP I feel he will be rookie listed.

 

[Old Spice]

How many years have we had Gault on the rookie list?

 

[Old Spice]

It's 35 minus Maxy and Moore. If Gault stays on the rookie list it's 34.

 

[Old Spice]

Really want to know who is a rookie that is listed in the senior team and how long they've been there.

 

[partypie]

Really want to know who is a rookie that is listed in the senior team and how long they've been there.

Frost - 2 years
Gault - 1 year (first two years with us were on the senior list)

That's it I think.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-collingwood-magpies

 

[KJpie]

I think that what Gault and White would offer around the ground would be more then what a 2nd grade ruckman would offer in tapouts.

Both are Kp/ part time rucks. I too would like insurance in the form of another genuine ruckman thru the rookie draft.

If we select Wright at 5 that may change. Even though he is a ruck/ forward, at 203cm he has spent plenty of time in the ruck and will continue to get bigger and stronger after a full season in an AFL environment enabling to play games next year.

 

[Old Spice]

Frost - 2 years
Gault - 1 year (first two years with us were on the senior list)

That's it I think.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-collingwood-magpies

What about Oxley? End of first contract?

 

[partypie]

It's 35 minus Maxy and Moore. If Gault stays on the rookie list it's 34.

I threw this together the other day to try to get my head around it myself:

It all depends on what they do with Frost - there is room to still have him on the rookie list this year (he'd be promoted for the full season to cover for Scharenberg) and if they went that way we'd have 36 players on the senior list going into the draft and room for picks 5, 9, 30 and 48.

It is also possible that we promote Frost and delist one of Oxley or Ramsay and re-draft them as a rookie, which would again leave us with space for the four picks in the ND.

 

[Old Spice]

Still more list lodgments to come so entirely possible we use 48.