List Mgmt. OFFICIAL: Dangerfield + Pick 50 for Picks 9, 28 and Dean Gore

[Cataholic]

I was genuinely trying to provide a positive

Sure you were

With the twist of a knife

 

[Willo_]

Sure you were

With the twist of a knife

Well I pointed out it would be worse if he went to Port or the Pies... He started talking about cricket after that

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Dangerfield would no doubt be a lovely addition to our midfield, but very few seem to acknowledge there is reasonable chance we won't need him in order to become contenders.

Caddy, Duncan, Horlin-Smith, Guthrie. Are all still young and everyone would expect they will be better players in 2015 than 2014.

Dangerfield would be icing, he would not be the cake.

Danger offers something different to those players. I actually think the only player we have on our list that is similar is now Cocky.

He would slot strait into our midfield, take the slack off Selwood and would become our second best mid. (which to me is the cake you speak of)

Structure wise this is massive, right now both cop a tag week in week out (unless SJ is "on" for us) so having one of them run free week in week out would be a bonus.

Last year was considered a down year for Danger and he didn't finish that far behind Selwood in a lot of stats (except clearances which he beat him in), the only weakness he has is disposal, but like Selwood he can improve it

2012, Danger was considered a top 10, even 5 midfielder of the comp and the whole Crows team has been average since then. If he comes to us and gets back to that form then he is on par with Selwood.

 

[Cataholic]

Well I pointed out it would be worse if he went to Port or the Pies... He started talking about cricket after that

So......you walked over egg shells with hobnail boots then?

 

[Hood007]

Even though I don't necessarily agree with them, I understand people who are skeptical about paying massive overs for Danger.
It's always a risky move...

But for the people that are severely understating him as a player or flat out saying they don't want us to go after him I ask you:
Recruiting wise, what else do you want the club to do? Who else are we supposed to go for?

You can't win flags without A grade midfielders. And apart from Selwood & SJ (who is clearly in his twilight years) we have none at the moment.
That might change, but it also might not and regardless of the rating you use, currently Dangerfield is as A grade as it gets.

I get damn excited in the pants at the thought of Selwood, Danger & Caddy in the centre square for the next 5+ years.

 

[manboob]

I get damn excited in the pants at the thought of Selwood, Danger & Caddy in the centre square for the next 5+ years.

Randymarsh.jpg

 

[manboob]

Last year was considered a down year for Danger and he didn't finish that far behind Selwood in a lot of stats (except clearances which he beat him in), the only weakness he has is disposal, but like Selwood he can improve it

+1 Selwood stunk at kicking for goal for a longtime.

 

[thegerman]

I agree with paying overs for PD.Simply put, stars don't move for free. Sure, he may have a passion for playing for us, and, this is his best opportunity to play for us, as 2 years ago he may not have.

Do we still need to come up with a favorable trade with Adelaide?

 

[dazbroncos]

I agree with paying overs for PD.Simply put, stars don't move for free. Sure, he may have a passion for playing for us, and, this is his best opportunity to play for us, as 2 years ago he may not have.

Do we still need to come up with a favorable trade with Adelaide?

At the end of 215 he is RFA ( as is my understanding).

As such, he can be offered deals by other clubs. As a RFA, AFC has the option to match the rivals offers ( first right of refusal).
Not sure whether the terms of the RFA deal must be matched specifically or whether it is just the total of the deal that must be matched.

If he leaves, AFC get FA compensation for the band of the contract he left on…. in theory…

No trade is required per se.

It is my understanding that we are yet to see a RFA deal matched by the incumbent club

GO Catters

 

[thegerman]

Thanks daz

 

[Turbocat]

I agree with paying overs for PD.Simply put, stars don't move for free. Sure, he may have a passion for playing for us, and, this is his best opportunity to play for us, as 2 years ago he may not have.

Do we still need to come up with a favorable trade with Adelaide?

In essence any player in demand moving clubs , gets more financial from moving than staying. Danger as a FA , when the destination club needs no trade loss mean his value is even higher. Once he sorts thru the approaches , choose the final one..it will be presented to the Crows. Match or he is gone
No one has yet matched cause comp sometimes makes it more senseable to let them go , Frawley the best example. Danger is more of Franklin , the comp will not be close to his worth so they will be tempted to match...so the offer will have to be substantial.

The question is ...just how good does the offer have to be to make Geelong the preferred destination and be an offer that the Crows will not match.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

At the end of 215 he is RFA ( as is my understanding).

As such, he can be offered deals by other clubs. As a RFA, AFC has the option to match the rivals offers ( first right of refusal).
Not sure whether the terms of the RFA deal must be matched specifically or whether it is just the total of the deal that must be matched.

If he leaves, AFC get FA compensation for the band of the contract he left on…. in theory…

No trade is required per se.

It is my understanding that we are yet to see a RFA deal matched by the incumbent club

GO Catters

Just a hypothetical so I can understand, but on the Crows board they say if we make an offer and Crows can match it, it will force a trade. (of course in reality we're making a huge offer that Crow won't match)

What happens if the Cats then go "no thanks". Does that mean Crows have to pay Danger what they matched us with?

For example:

-Geelong offers $1 million for 5 years
-Crows match the offer in a bid to force us to trade
-Geelong say no trade and reneg the offer
-Crows now have to pay Danger $1 million a year

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Just a hypothetical so I can understand, but on the Crows board they say if we make an offer and Crows can match it, it will force a trade. (of course in reality we're making a huge offer that Crow won't match)

What happens if the Cats then go "no thanks". Does that mean Crows have to pay Danger what they matched us with?

For example:

-Geelong offers $1 million for 5 years
-Crows match the offer in a bid to force us to trade
-Geelong say no trade and reneg the offer
-Crows now have to pay Danger $1 million a year

Yep they have to pay. That's why the Hawks were never going to match Sydney's Buddy offer and force a trade cos if they did and a trade couldn't be agreed upon they would have been stuck with his big contract.

 

[dazbroncos]

Just a hypothetical so I can understand, but on the Crows board they say if we make an offer and Crows can match it, it will force a trade. (of course in reality we're making a huge offer that Crow won't match)

What happens if the Cats then go "no thanks". Does that mean Crows have to pay Danger what they matched us with?

For example:

-Geelong offers $1 million for 5 years
-Crows match the offer in a bid to force us to trade
-Geelong say no trade and reneg the offer
-Crows now have to pay Danger $1 million a year

Fair game of double jeopardy. Plus you have a player that expressed an interest to leave and you've kept him. That wont end well at all…

GO Catters

 

[manboob]

Fair game of double jeopardy. Plus you have a player that expressed an interest to leave and you've kept him. That wont end well at all…

Plus the Crows would have tabled their deal to him - he goes to the Cats says they are offering me this much....
Then if they match it it looks like they were stooging him all along.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Yep they have to pay. That's why the Hawks were never going to match Sydney's Buddy offer and force a trade cos if they did and a trade couldn't be agreed upon they would have been stuck with his big contract.

Fair game of double jeopardy. Plus you have a player that expressed an interest to leave and you've kept him. That wont end well at all…

GO Catters

Thanks Guys, just a thought that came up as I was reading their forum.

 

[Claude Balls]

So basically you only have to offer what you are realistically willing to pay, not a few $100k extra to ensure they don't match, because if they do you can just back out?

Well that's quite good.

 

[Boxhead_31]

Fair game of double jeopardy. Plus you have a player that expressed an interest to leave and you've kept him. That wont end well at all…

GO Catters

Didn't Ryan O'Keefe win a Norm Smith the year after making it known he wanted to be traded to Hawthorn?

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Another thing worth mentioning is there has been some talk that the AFL will introduce the ability for a club to trade future draft picks as soon as the end of 2015. If this does happen and Adelaide decided to match our offer it would make it alot easier to get a deal done.

At the end of the day if Dangerfield decides that he wants to come to Geelong it will happen one way or another and just like the Lions with the Beams deal we won't be trading away any of our star players.

 

[Turbocat]

Plus the Crows would have tabled their deal to him - he goes to the Cats says they are offering me this much....
Then if they match it it looks like they were stooging him all along.

Are you sure MB? I was under the impression its a one time deal , not an auction.

 

[Turbocat]

Just a hypothetical so I can understand, but on the Crows board they say if we make an offer and Crows can match it, it will force a trade. (of course in reality we're making a huge offer that Crow won't match)

What happens if the Cats then go "no thanks". Does that mean Crows have to pay Danger what they matched us with?

For example:

-Geelong offers $1 million for 5 years
-Crows match the offer in a bid to force us to trade
-Geelong say no trade and reneg the offer
-Crows now have to pay Danger $1 million a year

I think we are all playing a little bit of blind mans , pin the tail on the donkey , it has never been matched but...

Adelaide has to have room in their cap before any ability to match the offer is legal. If the do match...it comes back to a normal trade situation , except if deal can not be done the player has a deal. So ..any pretend match could be quite dangerous , if they match not really wanting to pay that but commit to it... my guess is the trade would suddenly been worth less than a normal trade.

But for this reason , my guess is Geelong will offer a 2 year deal on a huge amount. If they keep him for the next two years on huge money , they then face two years of Unrestricted FA speculation. After last year and this year , the may not be that keen on it. Yes if they matched they may get more than the comp but I doubt it will be the same as if they had traded him this year.

 

[manboob]

Are you sure MB? I was under the impression its a one time deal , not an auction.

Yeah but in a sense the crows get two bites - they get the chance to put an offer to him during the year and then match ours if they want to.

 

[FredLeDeux]

I think we are all playing a little bit of blind mans , pin the tail on the donkey , it has never been matched but...

Adelaide has to have room in their cap before any ability to match the offer is legal. If the do match...it comes back to a normal trade situation , except if deal can not be done the player has a deal. So ..any pretend match could be quite dangerous , if they match not really wanting to pay that but commit to it... my guess is the trade would suddenly been worth less than a normal trade.

But for this reason , my guess is Geelong will offer a 2 year deal on a huge amount. If they keep him for the next two years on huge money , they then face two years of Unrestricted FA speculation. After last year and this year , the may not be that keen on it. Yes if they matched they may get more than the comp but I doubt it will be the same as if they had traded him this year.

I can't see him moving for just a 2-year contract.
I think Geelong would also want him tied up for longer than that.
I would expect to see any agreement to be on the basis of 4 or 5 years.
That's where the salary cap "averaging" provisions may give us an advantage - while in the short term we will have had to cover Duncan/Hawkins/Motlop to their Sloan/Walker, over 2015-16 we will be losing quite a few relatively highly-paid older players from our salary cap.
Whatever,
- whoever gets him is going to have to pay "overs" outside their usual pay structures,
- we will be outbid by at least some Melbourne clubs,
- he will need to really want to come to Geelong,
- he will need to be able to "convince" himself that we have prospects equal to or better than other suitors over the rest of his prospective career.

 

[Turbocat]

I can't see him moving for just a 2-year contract.
I think Geelong would also want him tied up for longer than that.
I would expect to see any agreement to be on the basis of 4 or 5 years.
That's where the salary cap "averaging" provisions may give us an advantage - while in the short term we will have had to cover Duncan/Hawkins/Motlop to their Sloan/Walker, over 2015-16 we will be losing quite a few relatively highly-paid older players from our salary cap.
Whatever,
- whoever gets him is going to have to pay "overs" outside their usual pay structures,
- we will be outbid by at least some Melbourne clubs,
- he will need to really want to come to Geelong,
- he will need to be able to "convince" himself that we have prospects equal to or better than other suitors over the rest of his prospective career.

Well what they agree to off the books , and what is in the official offer may be different.

Question; if we offer him a 6 year contract 1.5,1.5 and whatever..... and the Crows match it does he have to accept , if he signs at the Crows.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Well what they agree to off the books , and what is in the official offer may be different.

Question; if we offer him a 6 year contract 1.5,1.5 and whatever..... and the Crows match it does he have to accept , if he signs at the Crows.

I believe he's then bound to the Crows, and can only move via trade, not RFA.
Having a deal off the books is very high risk - neither party could enforce it, and the consequences if it's discovered are likely to be diabolos - just ask Adelaide and Tippet.
PS, I'm not even sure if trade would then be an option, I can't remember when RFA first refusals are settled in relation to Trade Week?