Universal Love Not Boo-ing Goodes

[STrAng3C1oUdZ]

Why do you think you are you so ignorant?

To call me ignorant is ignorant of yourself how do you know I am not myself Aboriginal or is it because that this is my view that I must be White? The fact of the matter is he has gone about things the wrong way with his choice of words and actions there is no issue with him having the views he does but there is a right way and a wrong way to go about expressing them

 

[jenny61_99]

What crap.

When I hear about what McLeod has done/is doing then I have utmost respect for the work he is doing and it gives me hope that the next generation will progress positively.

I do think about the issue and from my perspective McLeod has done much better.

It's a shame. All Goodes has to do is be a better communicator. I actually love the fact he wants to do something for his people. I love the reconciliation ads that have a positive tone of coming together (much like the Bulldogs multicultural ad). I can understand why the hurt and bitterness is still there but 'we' as a nation have said sorry…there's no point continually rubbing peoples noses in the past that we can't change and sure as hell didn't do ourselves…lets move forward together.

So it happened in the past we should just forget it yeah? What do you say about the current child abuse hearings? Ah it happened in the past, we should just forget about it? We HAVE to deal with it. Aboriginal people weren't even included in the Australian census until 1971. We were taking their children away from them FFS less than 60 years ago. We have taken them away from their traditional homelands, placed them in isolated communities and expect them to assimilate to our way of life. Most of their languages are lost forever. The Maori language is taught in schools in New Zealand. The Haka taught to all heir kids, and they all do it with such pride. Ever seen the YouTube of two private colleges doing the Haka before the game? It's awesome to watch. Australia has such a long way to go. They STILL are not officially recognised as the first people of this land. It's ridiculous.

 

[baldandbroke]

I am Australian. Goodes has said publicly that Australians are racist. Do i need to draw you a picture?

Ive explained elsewhere what he has done to be disliked as a player, as have dozens of others in this thread and theres no point repeating it because you wont believe it isnt racially motivated anyway.

Yes - I need a picture. Show me where he called All Australians racist. Rubbish.

If you don't like how he plays - then fine - but you can surely accept that some people are booing him for racist reasons ... why would you support them by booing along? Take a leaf out of Gerard Whateley's book and leave only the racists booing then we can call them out for what they are.

 

[baldandbroke]

To call me ignorant is ignorant of yourself how do you know I am not myself Aboriginal or is it because that this is my view that I must be White? The fact of the matter is he has gone about things the wrong way with his choice of words and actions there is no issue with him having the views he does but there is a right way and a wrong way to go about expressing them

Lol - mate trying to claim to be Aboriginal for the sake of a forum argument is fairly low ...

Why is there a wrong way? What do you think is the right way for Adam Goodes to raise the issue? Quietly?

If one more person says "why not be more like <insert Aboriginal player here>, he is much more likeable in the way he expresses his views" ... I will scream !! FFS grow up people. We need the brave ones to stand up, we should be holding this man up as an example ... not trying so hard to be offended.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

Yes - I need a picture. Show me where he called All Australians racist. Rubbish.

If you don't like how he plays - then fine - but you can surely accept that some people are booing him for racist reasons ... why would you support them by booing along? Take a leaf out of Gerard Whateley's book and leave only the racists booing then we can call them out for what they are.

I used racially neutral colours so as not to be called a racist. I hope i didnt offend any blue or green or purple or lavender people.

 

[Pugsley]

The problem with this country is nobody has a bloody brain to think for themselves these days. They have to follow because everyone else is doing it.
How about stop being a sheep and do what is right not because everyone else is doing it !!!!!!!!
That's what's wrong here, no one wants to use their bloody brain anymore.
This is why I prefer dogs to some humans because they're loyal, honest & give unconditional love.


FFS !!!!!!!!! Rant over !!!!!!!

 

[TheLeftFist8]

So it happened in the past we should just forget it yeah? What do you say about the current child abuse hearings? Ah it happened in the past, we should just forget about it? We HAVE to deal with it. Aboriginal people weren't even included in the Australian census until 1971. We were taking their children away from them FFS less than 60 years ago. We have taken them away from their traditional homelands, placed them in isolated communities and expect them to assimilate to our way of life. Most of their languages are lost forever. The Maori language is taught in schools in New Zealand. The Haka taught to their kids, and they all do it with such pride.

We don't forget…in fact, the country has apologised for it! Oh, and good on them going for constitutional recognition btw, no problems.

But do not straw man me by comparing to child abuse hearings, how ridiculous. Oh, and if individual crimes against any child at any time are uncovered I hope that those people are brought to justice…to suggest otherwise is insulting.

So what would you like my kids to hear at school…shall I get Adam in to tell them they are little racists? Oh sorry, did I completely distort and misrepresent your argument

I'm so sick of the extreme arguments on both sides….no wonder no one ever moves forward.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

how do i express my disgust for his dirty playing tactics?
how are you going to react after he digs the knee into levers back? cheer him, clap him? please

You just don't get it, do you? This is no longer just about booing Goodes. It has taken on a broader meaning.

If he happens to do something dirty during the game then I would expect people to yell out or boo. But this is happening from the first bounce and the booing is being viewed by the aboriginal community (and others) as having a racial motivation.

If you can't understand that then there's no helping you.

 

[baldandbroke]

I used racially neutral colours so as not to be called a racist. I hope i didnt offend any blue or green or purple or lavender people.

Looking at your colour choices - all of the people are the same colour as Goodes - so is this before invasion?

But then you have no people in Tassie so I'm guessing this is after the Black Line?

 

[TheLeftFist8]

You just don't get it, do you? This is no longer just about booing Goodes. It has taken on a broader meaning.

If he happens to do something dirty during the game then I would expect people to yell out or boo. But this is happening from the first bounce and the booing is being viewed by the aboriginal community (and others) as having a racial motivation.

If you can't understand that then there's no helping you.

Well said, and hence why there shouldn't be ongoing booing against Goodes unless he incites the crowd again.

Draw a line in the sand.

Both sides need to respect each other in the spirit of reconciliation

 

[Mike Smyth]

Change the title of the song to "Cheap insulation is burning"

 

[VSTone]

the issue will continue to play out until the media hounds let it go... i think there's still some mileage in it yet... what will we learn from it...?
the media report any tid bit sometimes for inflammatory responses it's what they do! is it wrong that injustice perceived or otherwise needs to be reported?
I'm actually looking forward to seeing the issue confronting Goodes this weekend as i haven't really given it much think time...

I will be looking to see who the initiator is? and then the response... if Goodes is trying to drive awareness that's great, so many things need airplay - like domestic violence, species decline too... save the "Mallee Emu-Wren".

 

[Pugsley]

Change the title of the song to "Cheap insulation is burning"

That would be in poor taste. I was more taken by his "dance" moves.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Do people honestly believe non-Indigenous Australia haven't been told about the sub-human treatment of many Aboriginal people after settlement, or the stolen generation?

I'd be shocked if most literate Australians haven't been made fully aware of that awful history…how do we move forward is the positive question.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

Looking at your colour choices - all of the people are the same colour as Goodes - so is this before invasion?

But then you have no people in Tassie so I'm guessing this is after the Black Line?

So youre saying i should have pointed out that Goodes has a different skin colour to the people he is calling a racist? now who is the racist.

This argument is facile and pointless. You appear set in your assumption that me not liking a man who is black makes me racist. Let me know how you go finding a job when you finish your arts degree.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

Yes - I need a picture. Show me where he called All Australians racist. Rubbish.

If you don't like how he plays - then fine - but you can surely accept that some people are booing him for racist reasons ... why would you support them by booing along? Take a leaf out of Gerard Whateley's book and leave only the racists booing then we can call them out for what they are.

And another thing. I am so sick and tired of this bullshit argument that "some people who boo him are racist therefore booing gives them cover." wtf does that even mean?

Some people drive drunk, or without a license, so id better not drive because its giving them cover?

Some people use clothes to cover up swastika tattoos so i shouldnt wear clothes because it gives those people cover? wtf?

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

And another thing. I am so sick and tired of this bullshit argument that "some people who boo him are racist therefore booing gives them cover." wtf does that even mean?

Some people drive drunk, or without a license, so id better not drive because its giving them cover?

Some people use clothes to cover up swastika tattoos so i shouldnt wear clothes because it gives those people cover? wtf?

See my above post and join the queue of those that don't get it.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

This argument is facile and pointless. You appear set in your assumption that me not liking a man who is black makes me racist. Let me know how you go finding a job when you finish your arts degree.

People just do not get this…that's where imbalance comes into the argument.

Seriously, I see a negatively skewed segment of the population but I'd say the majority of the indigenous population I meet don't abuse or threaten me, as a stereotype many are quiet/gentle types when not substance affected…doesn't mean i like the other minority calling me a white c**t, and I sure as hell won't be saying I deserve it when I've acted with nothing but professionalism and I won't say sorry for being born with a certain skin colour (just like they shouldn't feel inferior either).

 

[SpeciousArgument]

See my above post and join the queue of those that don't get it.

See my response to you about how stopping booing him will confirm that it was racially motivated in the first place, and join the queue of people apologising for a wrong that hasnt been commited.

 

[Brenton Davy]

Yep, this is utter nonsense for sure.

There are 2 sides to the communication…Goodes may receive it as racist despite the fact the sender of the communication had absolutely zero racist intentions. Further, the comment/boo itself may or may not be racist at all, despite how the receiver of it perceives it!

In the end though, if the person perceives it that then despite it probably NOT being racist, I'd stop doing it.

However, if on the weekend Goodes does some dirty/weird off the ball crap or inflammatory gestures that he's known for, he shouldn't cry if the boos start again.

Oh, and for those who say the spear throwing isn't inflammatory but a wonderful personal expression, surely the reverse argument could be used by the crowd saying "well if i feel it is inflammatory or threatening, then IT IS inflammatory or threatening"!! See how stupid the logic is?!

There are 2 sides to this for sure. Goodes, no matter how well intentioned, is a poor communicator of his message and has got so many people offside. The contrast to McLeod's words mentioned earlier in the thread basically sum up his style.


Over the past decade I've worked among countless members of the indigenous community. The truth to their plight is somewhere in the middle of the left and right arguments. Yes, many have been 'victims' but no way are they poor innocents who can't do much, much better to help themselves, their community and the wider Australian community. I've met many who are wonderful people who are kind, gentle and family orientated. I've also met some absolute scum who waste money on smokes/drugs/alcohol, mistreat property, abuse their family, and threaten others with violence (my experience was a meat cleaver!)…and of course it's never their fault!

The leaders of their community need to not only diplomatically work with wider Australia and segments with racist undertones but also put the heat on their own to lift their game, show some self-determination (along with the many gov benefits to assist the process), stop the victimhood but empower their younger generation to succeed in whatever way they see 'success' to be for them. Reconciliation isn't helped by bagging the s**t out of the wider community while taking no responsibility for your own faults!

Probably the most reasoned post in this whole debate

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

See my response to you about how stopping booing him will confirm that it was racially motivated in the first place, and join the queue of people apologising for a wrong that hasnt been commited.

See my post about how people have been booing him for an array of reasons but now it is being interpreted by the aboriginal community (and others) as being a symbol of racism (either rightly or wrongly - it now doesn't matter). If you want to associate with such symbols then please, go ahead. If so, please refer to my other post and select which option you are A, B, C or D.

 

[STrAng3C1oUdZ]

Lol - mate trying to claim to be Aboriginal for the sake of a forum argument is fairly low ...

Why is there a wrong way? What do you think is the right way for Adam Goodes to raise the issue? Quietly?

If one more person says "why not be more like <insert Aboriginal player here>, he is much more likeable in the way he expresses his views" ... I will scream !! FFS grow up people. We need the brave ones to stand up, we should be holding this man up as an example ... not trying so hard to be offended.

The right way to go about it certainly isn't labeling Australia day as invasion day that's for sure

 

[Wood_Duck]

And how much has McLeod achieved with his "acceptable" way of doing things? Most people go "isn't that nice, that nice boy says things so eloquently" and then go on about their daily lives without giving a second thought to the issue.

You think Goodes is making progress?

 

[Brenton Davy]

You think Goodes is making progress?

Well, if nothing else, he is firing debate in this forum...

 

[Redleg Crow]

This isn't even a logical fallacy, it's just a fictious nonsense.
Your hurdle isn't real, and doesn't make sense even if you hadn't just made it up.

all you've done is reverse engineered the extremely tenuous proposition that booing = racial discrimination. And what's worse you've taken that tact to side step the burden of proof on the original point.

Let me try and get things back onto a straight path:
1. Is it your contention that Adam Goodes' conduct, behaviour, beliefs and actions are such that there can only be one motivation for taking against him?

2. Is it your contention that Adam Goodes' conduct, behaviour, beliefs and actions do not share any commonality with other players, so therefore their treatment cannot be be used as a fair comparator
If the answer to either is yes, can you make a reasoned argument as to why?

1. Irrelevant.
2. Equally irrelevant.

While some people booing Goodes, both in the past and now, do so for non-racist reasons, the overwhelming increase and continuity in it occurred after the Collingwood game in 2013, after he began speaking up about racism, and it kept going after he did the dance earlier this year - nothing he did in the Eagles game on the weekend warranted any sort of level of booing that he received.

That racism is not the only reason people are booing Goodes is irrelevant when it comes to whether or not you should do it.

Lots of times in life you do an activity that is fun and pretty well harmless but then others come in and do it for other reasons that end up ruining it for everyone. And that has happened with booing Goodes. People are now *also* booing him for racist reasons. And so loud and vocal has that become that booing Goodes now is being construed very much as a racist act.

If you think this is not true, then ask yourself if it was not the case would we be having this thread, or would there be any articles in the media, or comments by the AFL etc

So we're at the point where your actions will most certainly be construed by others - including the person at whom it is directed - as being racist, and, in some ways even worse, as a sign that the club you follow has a racist culture. Is that unfair? Well sure, but it's hardly the biggest injustice in the world today.

So if you are not racist and don't want to be seen to offer support in anyway - even tacitly - to racist elements, then in this instance all you have to do is realise that the booing has taken on, WITHOUT ANY FAULT OF YOUR OWN, A VERY UGLY SIDE. And so in response you say, nope I don't want to be a part of that. Even better, if you feel bold enough, you can encourage other not to boo him as well.

It's not a big hurdle to jump over.