Autopsy Nab Challenge: Match 1 - Hawthorn vs Collingwood (Feb 26 Aurora Stadium) - autopsy from page 18

[Gralin]

Haven't watched the game yet but the highlights package on Hawks site didn't have much in the way of highlights in it.

I can't wait until real footy is back

 

[hfc70]

I'm just glad footy is back

 

[Brown n Gold]

Good lord, some quick to throw the toys out of the cot!!

Hard to find negatives out of last nights game we got within 44 points of the pies with a bunch of kids and ZERO structure.

 

[Davo23]

Lucky Roughy didn't play otherwise I'd be revisiting my "Roughy needs to do more" thread

Needs more of the "Where's Luke Hodge At?" thread.

Where's the guy who started that thread, he needs to post in this thread!

 

[becalm]

Not sure about far more experienced. Only 4 players last night have played more than 100 games and 2 of those were 1st game for Pies. Only another 5 have reached 50 games with 2 of those on 52. So 9 of our 26 last night have played over 50 games and Varcoe is the most experienced with 138 games. 10 last night have less than 22 games to their name so not even a seasons worth of senior footy.

You guys left out a mass of experience that you can bring back and will make you a completely different outfit. We left out a fair amount of experience but when we bring them back we will still be very young and inexperienced. Still it would be wrong to think your kids last night were up against a far more experienced outfit.

You must feel better now.

 

[Dipper]

If it's like-for-like, it can't be Poppy or Duryea: they both have specific forward and defence roles.

It has to be one of the midfielders, maybe as an inside midfielder.
I actually did not see him as an outside speedster, but he does have a fair bit of pace, not Smith or Hill pace (those two are scarily fast). But he does have some outside run, so he can give us both.

Because of his cameos during 2013, I think it is clear that he has a great future.

Even before this game I felt that he'd make an unanswerable case for regular inclusion.

I get your point on Duryea and Puopolo having specific roles but if he is to oust someone from the side without there being injuries or catastrophic losses of form then there aren't many obvious candidates. Apart from the two above the next 2 most at risk would be Suckling and Shiels. Suckling obviously has a very specific role as well and Shiels is a senior player , although with him it would be the best fit in terms of being a bloke who plays mainly midfield.

My feeling is that if there are any injuries Jed will come in and when those players return whoever makes way will come down to form . If no injuries he'll replace Duryea and others will have to rotate more through the backline as there's no doubt that the little champ will be more than dangerous playing forward when he's not on the ball. Like you said he has a nice turn of pace too, that's what's really encouraging about him, Langers and possibly O'Rourke if he comes good.

I'm predicting that when we play GC that Jedi will announce himself yet again by driving GAJ into the turf and getting a HTB. It's inevitable that he'll tackle the untackalable, he's not of this world.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Haven't watched the game yet but the highlights package on Hawks site didn't have much in the way of highlights in it.

I can't wait until real footy is back

Agree.

Can we not watch the replay on the AFL website using the 'Smart Replay' facility anymore? I don't want to go through all that stupid registration process. Was able to use the 'Smart Replay' to watch all matches last year.

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

Watching the game a second time and Hardisty caught my eye.

 

[becalm]

WTF???

ABSOLUELY INCORRECT.

The Hawks only fielded 4 players with over 100 games as well and ONLY three players who had played over 50 games as opposed to your 5 players.

So we had only 7 players with more than 50 games experience!

Additionally ...

WE FIELDED EIGHT KIDS THAT HAVE PLAYED NO GAMES OF SENIOR FOOTY AT ANY LEVEL, WHAT SO EVER!

FIVE OF WHOM HAD NOT EVEN COMPLEATED ONE PRE-SEASON!

Your 10 players with less than 22 games includes:

Karnezis 21 games
Kennedy 20 games
Langdon 19 games
Crisp 18 games
Broomhead 8 games
Oxley, Ramsey 2 games
Gault 1 game
De Goey, Freeman, 0 games

In contrast, the hawks had 15 players that had played 20 games or less comprising:

Langford 20 games
Ceglar 17 games
Litherland 13 games
Hartung 7 games
Anderson 6 games
Grimley 3 games
Woodward 2 Games
Brand, Sicily, Willsmore, Howe, Miles, Pittonet, Hardisty, Miller-Lewis 0 games

Another way to look at it is 4 of your sub-22games kids have played more or as many games as the combined games total of the 12 least experienced hawks players fielded in Launceston.


Even if we resort to simply to average games played across the teams fielded, which is distorted by heavily by Mitchell playing with 261 games under his belt, more than one quarter of the Hawks team's total games played, then we have average games played per player:

Collingwood: 46.42 :

Hawthorn: 42.21


Whatever way you want to cut it, the Hawks fielded a far less experienced team than the pies, END OF STORY.

Why argue?

 

[becalm]

It can hardly be ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT

Far more experienced is an opinion so unless we can have a fixed definition of what "far more" is we should agree to disagree.

I have acknowledges in this thread that last nights game was meaningless in terms of what happens in 2015. It should not cause any concern at the Hawks and maybe a little bit of hope at the Pies as a sign we are getting back on track. You have clearly the best list in the comp and we are down to one of the least experienced.

My only point of contention was the perception some Hawks have had that Collingwood put out an experienced team last night who were hell bent on the win as the goal of the night. It was much closer to a 2nds match and I have already agreed you had a whole lot more experience missing. All our 4 A graders were missing plus half a dozen other best 22. We dont any longer have the riches of A grade players to rest you have. You were missing a lot of A grade players but still had the only elite player on the ground last night and at least two other A graders in Breust and Gunston.

Guess all I am saying is both teams were working to a plan to get their own list up and firing for round 1. A win was of secondary importance even to the Pies. There were 2 inexperienced teams playing last night , Hawks more so but for mine the difference wasn't "far more"

As I said it doesn't matter in the next game you will strip with a much better , more experienced line up as you lead into 2015. We will be a little more experienced but face a year of playing very young teams who we hope can be fast tracked back up the ladder

At the end of the day just my opinion. Didn't mean to rile anyone up or cause any friction. If I have sorry.

What I can't understand is why come on our board with your analysis of the game, we don't need it.

 

[Gunstall555]

What I can't understand is why come on our board with your analysis of the game, we don't need it.

Chill out (or becalm) - he's been pretty reasonably and only been snippy when we have aggravated him first. Certainly not trolling anyone here.

 

[Procrastinator35]

What I can't understand is why come on our board with your analysis of the game, we don't need it.

The degree to which our Hawks have 'messed up' our Collingwood brethren over these past few years might be a clue!

Their desperation for payback is reflected in the need to come onto our board & gloat at sum very slim pickings indeed!

But when your in the midst of a famine, then even paltry & meagre trimmings seem a feast.....Hence the name Gone Critical !

 

[Gone Critical]

What I can't understand is why come on our board with your analysis of the game, we don't need it.

No worries. Always try and be careful coming on other teams boards. I know some like ours try to encourage a bit of cross banter with the opposition whereas others like to keep things exclusive to their own. It's your board so your rules and I will respect that

Good luck for 2015, you have a great list and I have always had a soft spot for the Hawks. As I said before could watch Sam Mitchell everyday. Cheers

 

[wahawk]

Think it was 13

14 were either new or very inexperienced
With another 3 in & out of the team last year.

 

[wahawk]

Not enough
Sack the coach
Move Roughy to CHB
suggestions

Be careful mate, someone started a thread on that & it didn't go down well

 

[wahawk]

Just a question, but why do people care about the result?

Exactly
But I can piss further than you Steve

And that is what really matters

 

[WWSD]

Negatives. Not interested.

Positives

McEvoy can certainly go forward, take telling marks and kick goals. That is how premierships are won.
Cegler's palming
Gunston is on the verge of being an outstanding player.
Langford knows how to get where the ball is. Expect him to be tagged this year. Which makes it difficult for opposition teams because they can only tag so many.
Mitchell is supreme. Copped two heavy bumps and hardly batted an eyelid.
Enough has been said about Anderson.


The kids are kids. We will be given other opportunities to judge their potential.

This game was all about FIGJAM making a statement.

Jack Gunston is on the verge of being the best forward in the competition.

 

[Hawkas1988]

Ok, I came home after working and thought why not re-watch it again. First up anyone genuinely worried/upset about the result should punch themselves in the face, it means and meant nothing. We matched the Pies for 3/4's and understandably fell away in the last quarter due to a huge amount of kids playing and being 4 weeks behind the Pies in pre-season training. Pies weren't full strength by any means either, but they had more senior/regular best 22 players in their side.

I'm up, bored and can't sleep so I thought why not mention a bit on every player after watching it twice now and watching players a lot more closely compared to last night.

Mitchell - The bloke is a freak! Magician! Champion! So many words can describe this man but not sure they can do him justice. The best thing about watching him in this game was how far ahead he is of the average AFL footballer. Different ballparks. Makes players look silly. This guy simply cannot be replaced, Hodgepodge as much as you carry on about us doing fine without him last year and being able to replace him fine, we will feel his loss greatly when he retires. I hope it's a long way away yet.

McEvoy - Very good signs from the big fella, looking more and more likely to be the Hale replacement. I initially was all for Ceglar being Hale MK2, but the HFC have nailed this. Ceglar is clearly the better tap ruckman and McEvoy is showing how good he can be up forward as the forward/ruck in the future. Our ruck division is set for a long time IMO.

Duryea - Hard to really evaluate his game, got a fair bit of the ball and used it pretty well, however he was beaten a couple of times. Overall a typical Duryea game, nothing too special but solid nonetheless. One thing I must say, he is one of the most courageous players on our list.

Frawley - Stinker of a game, can't really find any positives in his performance. Even Hodgey has come out and said he had a poor game haha. I'm not worried at all though, as posters have said Gibbo's first game for us was an absolute nightmare. He will take awhile to rub the spudness of Melbourne off him but more importantly, adapt to our systems and gameplan. It also didn't help him that Brand went down early and he had very little senior help around him.

Ceglar - Cegs.....I just enjoy saying Cegs. I thought he was solid on Thursday night, after the replay tonight, I didn't give him enough credit. I love the big fella, gives 100% every contest and his tapwork at times is so underrated. Our ruck dilemma this year will be as tough as last year, this guy is more than ready to take our number 1 ruck spot.

Gunston - Just a class above most of the players our there, his forward work, especially the reading of the ball flight is excellent. Did what he had to do and took it for what it is, a praccy match. I still laugh at what we gave up for this guy, robbery.

Sicily - 2nd most exciting youngster on the list IMO (not including Langers). He oozes self belief and has a good footy brain. He is only 186/7 cms I think but he plays like a lot taller at times. Great hands and long booming kick, I still don't know what his ceiling will be or what type of player he will eventually become, I am genuinely excited to see how his future unfolds. He had cameo moments, those moments though suggest he will become a special player (In my biased opinion).

Breust - Frustrating game for Punky, got caught multiple times and struggled to really impact the game despite his 2 goals. He is a gun so not too worried about it, he probably was on instruction to take the game on as much as possible.

Stratton - Real nothing game from him, hardly noticed him besides a few poor kicks. Rusty but it's feb after all.

Shiels - Typical Shiels game, racks the possies up, good in and under play that goes unnoticed and of course a set shot miss

Langford - Seems to have picked up where he left off, great signs from him! He is a rabid animal in contests and will become an inside beast, with breakaway speed. I still cringe a bit at the amount of posters saying he will be a top 10 midfielder by the end of the season, top 10 in brownlow etc. Give the kid some time to keep developing his game whilst we still have superstar mids like Mitchell and Lewis in front of him.

Brand - Felt terribly for him, so unfortunate and worrying signs with how long it took to put back in. I've done my shoulder before in footy and I was out for a long time. If he needs surgery on it then it's season done, let's hope for the best, obvious weak point with him though (shoulders can be such a b*tch).

Litherland - Expected and wanted more from Liquor. Not a terrible game by any stretch, just was an average game from him. He will bounce back.

Simpkin - Hmmm, the more I see of him and our kids, the more I want to play the kids ahead of him. He can rack it up but gee he turns it over a lot. There were some really poor turnovers in this game and it can be quite frustrating. Good depth but hopefully Clarko chooses the likes of O'Rourke, Anderson, Hartung over him this year.

Grimley - Hah! Classic Grimley

Anderson - Ok......mancrush forming rapidly with Jed. He is the most exciting youngster on our list, I challenge anyone who disagrees to a duel! Has every attribute you want in a midfielder. Good skills, quick, tough, can play inside and outside, likes a goal. Play him Round 1 Clarko.

Willsmore - Not a good game from Dallas, missed 2 overhead marks with an opponent a metre from him, little pressure yes but were absolute sitters. He would be disappointed in that and his other fumbles. I am a bit harsh here but it was a disappointing game. Still it's one game and he has talent.

Woodward - Quiet, was hoping to see a much better game from Woody. Was rarely noticed, however he did some really quick handballs inside contest that were impressive. Needs more to his game, maybe it's self belief issues but I feel he has more than what we have seen. However, he can't really be judged, he has overcome 2 knee recos and will only become more confident in his body from now on.

Hartung - Funnily, after watching it for a second time I was less impressed than initially. Wasn't a great game, got caught a few times and turned it over too. He still has moments where he doesn't know what to do and just runs in a panic. This comes down to experience in my opinion, he has the tools, just needs more gametime and years to improve it. Bradley Hill was the exact same when he started out. Can't seem to break out of tackles/evade them but he sticks his tackles pretty well which is a good sign. Harsh on him and I expect to see him dominate 1 of the next 2 NAB games haha.

Howe - Couple of fumbles/mistakes but a couple of really good moments too. I was quiet impressed with his game. A fair way off just like all out first year players but we have something to work with here.

Miles - The most impressive game of all our first year players. Looked quite composed and has a crack. Can see a future with him, may be fighting for a back pocket spot in a couple of years.

Pittonet - Played hardly any minutes so hard to judge, ruckman take years to show anything anyway, so judging him this early will be tough. Lots of Box Hill for him and see how he develops under Monkey.

Hardisty - Can play, he may not be an athlete but he is a footballer. Impressed with his game at times. I must say his handballing really is his strength, made some really good decisions and executions with it. His kicking is a weakness, definitely a work-in-progress with this area of his game.

Miller-Lewis - Headless chook in the game, great enthusiasm but he was running around seeming confused at times, is a long way off. A couple of times he got the ball and wanted to give it off straight away to a teammate, instead of making the correct decision. Give the kid time in the 2's and see how he develops. He is the perfect rookie pick though, may never come on, however he could surprise and turn into a special type of player with his talent.

I must mention, I've been a lot harder on 2nd/3rd year players compared to our 1st year ones. When you think about it, it's pretty harsh as they're babies too. Also many of these players will look a lot better with senior players around helping them with leadership and having a better structure around them.

 

[Dewnior]

A premiership side has never taken a field together again..... ever

Yup and that's why I said highly unlikely

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2015-01-01/same-22-dont-bet-on-it

 

[Hawthorn23]

hey guys enjoy some of the highlights here

 

[Procrastinator35]

No worries. Always try and be careful coming on other teams boards. I know some like ours try to encourage a bit of cross banter with the opposition whereas others like to keep things exclusive to their own. It's your board so your rules and I will respect that

Good luck for 2015, you have a great list and I have always had a soft spot for the Hawks. As I said before could watch Sam Mitchell everyday. Cheers

Sammy always plays well against the Pies & often sends them packing!....

 

[B&GBlood]

Sammy always plays well against the Pies & often sends them packing!....

Pies often seem to stand around and watch Mitchell play, he seems to put on a clinic for them most games.

 

[Big Hotdog]

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/video/2015-02-26/nab-rnd1-match-highlights-

At 1:20 Varcoe has brought his Geelong skills utilising the quick "hands" to set up a goal.

Old habits die hard. Geelong have been the masters of the throw the past few five or six years.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Seeing our new draftees and rookies for the first time, it would seem to me we have deliberately picked players who are a good 2-3 preseasons away from being ready. And this makes sense given we have about 30 blokes who can play seniors this year and next.

Howe was horrible early but settled and started to show why we took him. Did a couple of little things that suggest to me he is a future leader. Really good size.

Miles is zippy but looks like a school kid. Gut feel is he will end up as a forward.

Hardisty did a couple of brilliant handballs but for a supposedly high possession winner didn't find the ball regularly enough. Speed and agility an issue so needs to go on the mitchell/lewis training regime. Can play but is going to have to put some hard yards into his body.

Pittonet dropped that mark in the defensive goalsquare. One very nice tap in the centre square though. Love that he looks to hit the body when given the chance.

JML off the pace. Needs strength and endurance.

Most concerned about Woody. His exposure at AFL level in the real stuff and preseason has me seriously questioning whether he can make the step up. Looks small out on the ground and his advantage at VFL which is his hardness seems nullified by the bigger bodies at AFL level. And he still spends WAY to much time on his hands and knees - this needs to be coached out of his game.

As for Grimley, the game has genuinely gone past him.

Cegs is good at times but other times he drops back to a VFL mindset. Is he lazy? Is it a confidence, concentration or fitness thing?

Jed the clear standout. He is another Rioli with his ability to influence a contest with or without the ball. Absolute star.

Billy is a funny one. He is great with his straight line speed but his ability to stop and change direction sideways is poor and is why he seems easy to tackle. He always looks frustrated during games. He was still ok on a second viewing of the game and will be much better with better players around him. I am confused about what his best position is.

 

[ObieWan]

Not at all impressed by Howe, thought he was awful but the game meant nothing in the end. Pittonet will develop into a very good ruck but that'll take a few years. Overall I'm more impressed with Hardisty than any of our National Draft selections (not including the big guy).

Tom Lamb didn't do all that much last night, but he would have been a far better option at pick 31. Just my 2 cents.