List Mgmt. List planning 2015 and onwards

[It Just Is]

I don't think we are at the stage where we need to make whole sale changes.

I don't mean trading Harlett or Pittard or any of that nonsense.

Just that guys like Young, O'Shea, Stewart, Gray, Mitchell and Neade who are supposed to be depth have looked less likely than ever at AFL level this year. If we're not challenging for a flag there's no point keeping so many players who aren't on the improve as depth, particularly mature players. To be honest I expect Shaw and Moore to be added to that list before the seasons over.

If we continue how we're going, finish maybe 10th-12th, and delist Butcher, Cornes and one other, well that just reeks of denial. It's pretty much Essendon's list management strategy and god knows when they last won a final.

Prepare to be mightly disappointed then. Ken loves Mitchell and Sam Gray (their inexplicable continued selections shows that). Stewart is tied up, so at best we'll get him onto the rookie list. Odds are we'll be delisting at least one of the players most here would rather keep then the ones you'd pick if everyone's contract finished the end of this year.

That's how I've felt just about every Thursday night this season

 

[philthy05]

We are going to be able to bring in 2 or 3 kids in the draft. Do we really need to bring in four or five kids in this draft? Go ask any of the draft watchers if they would be comfortable having multiple kids from the 40-60 range in the draft. Because that is the range of picks Moore/Oshea /young would get us. If we have trade targets we want to bring in and we need to trade one or more of those guys to get them then so be it. But you cannot convince me that when we are gonna have something like picks 8 , 28, 48 that moving on Moore for another pick in the 40's is going to be the way to advance our team.

 

[It Just Is]

We are going to be able to bring in 2 or 3 kids in the draft. Do we really need to bring in four or five kids in this draft? Go ask any of the draft watchers if they would be comfortable having multiple kids from the 40-60 range in the draft. Because that is the range of picks Moore/Oshea /young would get us. If we have trade targets we want to bring in and we need to trade one or more of those guys to get them then so be it. But you cannot convince me that when we are gonna have something like picks 8 , 28, 48 that moving on Moore for another pick in the 40's is going to be the way to advance our team.

You're probably right about the draft but either way none of the guys I listed have shown any inclination of being capable to advance our list.

I'm no fan of Elliot Kavanagh but at least recruiting him, and players like him, is trying something.

 

[philthy05]

Moore has dominated sanfl for two or three years now to be honest. One average game at afl level when almost our entire team played crap and I'm not ready to write him off. I'm don't think it's a given Moore will take his sanfl game to afl level but at 23/24 and with our side desperate for a player of his type I think he should be given time , and don't think restarting with a player like kade stewert or the like in the draft while casting Moore off is a good decision .

 

[PAFC04]

Daniel Corringe is out of contract, so is Jaeger O'Meara...... worth looking at?

 

[FallingLiefs]

Daniel Corringe is out of contract, so is Jaeger O'Meara...... worth looking at?

Jaeger is not going anywhere.

 

[Powerade 08]

Gorringe is really bad though. O'Meara I'd consider trading S.Gray or Moore for.

 

[Portology]

If this year has taught us anything it's that our depth isn't quite what we want it to be nor is it where we want it to be. We found out because senior players aren't going as well as hoped (or are off the park) and the more senior replacements haven't shown they are consistently up to AFL standard (Young, Moore, Stewart, Mitchell) have gone backwards (O'Shea) or are slightly past it (Logan). At the same time the junior replacements aren't yet ready to step up "full time" (AhChee, Amon, Shaw, Harvey) and some may just not be up to consistent AFL standard (Butcher, Sam Gray). Getting first year kids from picks 40-60 won't fix any of that. Trade the guys listed that's all we get, 40-60, so if we trade I'd rather we traded for a role player, even a between-the-ears project like Kavanagh. We had a "draft talls" year last year that we definitely needed. I expect consolidation not wholesale changes. The big win for our list management BTW this year is the Krak. Next year after one more pre season for Krak, Amon, AhChee, Harvey I think we'll see things differently to now.

Delist: Mitchell, Butcher, Kane, Stewart, Sam Gray, Logan
Rookie: Stewart
Upgrade: Krak
Big calls: Redden, Young, Moore, O'Shea

I think Mitchell may have some trade value back to a WA club as a depth player (possibly packaged with Shaw?) and also a chance of being re-rookied by us (depends on progress of Polec & White). If Amon keeps progressing this season and the injured pair are both running around well, before trade week I think we'll take whatever we get for Mitchell. I think we've seen Sam Gray's ceiling and what our list doesn't need is a smaller, slower, lightweight hybrid of Tom Logan and Angus Monfries. Sadly, based on the reports of those who watch him in SANFL (and on my recollection of AFL games) I think it's over for Butch here and we'd trade if one was offered and wish him good luck.

IMO the club will back Redden with another 1 year contract. It's too risky to have no physically AFL ready to go rucks on the main list, and with the potential complications of WADA/Paddy there's no point shuffling Redden to the rookie list per Logan (and as suggested for Stewart). I'd hope the club wouldn't trade for Young, would entertain a trade for O'Shea if he asks (hopefully for a player not a pick) and re-contracts Moore rather than is forced to the table.

 

[Portology]

Gorringe would have to pass a recreational character test.

More seriously, O'Meara is the sort of player to make you contemplate a trade for Hartlett. Not Boak, Gray, Ebert, Wines or Wingard but Hartlett.

 

[scottjr]

Daniel Corringe is out of contract, so is Jaeger O'Meara...... worth looking at?

O'Meara will miss next season and maybe lucky to play again. He's a tragedy. Corringe we can get for nothing I'm still interested to a point the issue being what happened last year when we possibly hung him out to dry and his reaction afterwards. Think he could end up at the Crows.

 

[Hellgood]

The 2015 draft is likely to be one of the weakest ever.

After pick 10 it could be a lottery.

We are likely to make only 3 or 4 delistings/trades off the main list and use the rookie list as a way to pick up 3 new players.

e.g. delist Cornes, Butcher + Mitchell trade one of Moore or Young

Yeah righto, every year is "teh best draft evah!!" or "worst of all time!".

There are always good players available.

 

[Hellgood]

O'Meara will miss next season and maybe lucky to play again. He's a tragedy. Corringe we can get for nothing I'm still interested to a point the issue being what happened last year when we possibly hung him out to dry and his reaction afterwards. Think he could end up at the Crows.

Are you sure about that? Not what I have been hearing.

As for Gorringe being hung out to dry... bloody hell. It's called prioritisation - focusing your resources and energy on the option which will most likely give you the biggest benefit.

 

[Janus]

Our depth isn't where it should be because our senior team isn't where it should be. As Hinkley said in his review, last year you could point to a clear demarcation as to what was required for an AFL game. This year, because the senior players aren't performing there is no level for the fringe players to look at and say "that's why I'm not getting a game" they are having to rely on arbitrary things like possession stats to measure their own performance.

That's why I'm not interested in stats, but in how the team performs as a collective. And why I'd be playing Ah Chee and Moore to the end of the year. They click and perform well within the team, we don't need to bother with an inside mid because we have two and can go looking for a classy outside mid/small forward to free up Wingard and Gray more. They don't, we start looking at grunt and horsepower.

 

[Hellgood]

What's going on with Cameron O'Shea? He clearly has the ability to be a very good contributor in the AFL and has demonstrated this in the cauldron of September. I just struggle to comprehend how a player of his smarts, mobility and running power can be playing so poorly in the SANFL. Has to be some kind of motivational issue.

 

[scottjr]

Are you sure about that? Not what I have been hearing.

As for Gorringe being hung out to dry... bloody hell. It's called prioritisation - focusing your resources and energy on the option which will most likely give you the biggest benefit.

I'm going by Doc Larkins assessment at the time of the injury. His prognosis was poor.
I see here O'meara is hopeful but still thinking he's going to need a year of conditioning to be playing again.
http://m.couriermail.com.au/sport/a...ow-see-the-light/story-fnia415y-1227357676002

Gorringe from our point of view was the right call but I could certainly understand if he saw it differently I don't think he requested a trade to us without being given some sort of an undertaking. While losing the plot when things fell though is a bit of a worry I wouldn't necessarily hold it against him if he still wanted to come here and we still felt a need for him.

 

[snozulu]

Jaeger is not going anywhere.

Barrett on the footy show mentioned they were planning on leaving including sam day. Apparently omeara has bought a house in melbourne or something. But Barrett is wrong a lot.

 

[FallingLiefs]

O'Meara will miss next season and maybe lucky to play again. He's a tragedy. Corringe we can get for nothing I'm still interested to a point the issue being what happened last year when we possibly hung him out to dry and his reaction afterwards. Think he could end up at the Crows.

Last I heard Jaegar was quite happy with his progress, thinks he will play next year easy.

Barrett on the footy show mentioned they were planning on leaving including sam day. Apparently omeara has bought a house in melbourne or something. But Barrett is wrong a lot.

Think he's pretty happy in GC, loves Gary and his GC based girlfriend is smokin. New revelations might change his mind but start of season he was pretty happy. I'd be shocked if he left.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

I look at teams like Collingwood who are top four, and still have top 10 pick youngsters pushing for selection. It's then that I realise just from how far back we have come. Our depth is rubbish. We have a few goodies in Amon and Clurey pushing, but beyond that we sink fast. We caught up a heap with the ebert and polec trades. But we were so far back that we needed a few more years of it. Ryder is yet to prove his worth, so that so far is a loss. Let's hope he starts today.

 

[Port 2004]

I look at teams like Collingwood who are top four, and still have top 10 pick youngsters pushing for selection. It's then that I realise just from how far back we have come. Our depth is rubbish. We have a few goodies in Amon and Clurey pushing, but beyond that we sink fast. We caught up a heap with the ebert and polec trades. But we were so far back that we needed a few more years of it. Ryder is yet to prove his worth, so that so far is a loss. Let's hope he starts today.

Nah. Last year people were saying the same thing about Collingwood as you are saying about us now. When things aren't going well it all looks much worse than it really is. We have a good list that will bounce back next year. We also have a couple of really good key position players coming through in Austin and Howard. I saw Austin play on Sunday and this kid is going to be good. There is also wraps on Howard, who has missed some games through injury recently.

 

[TimmyD11]

If this year has taught us anything it's that our depth isn't quite what we want it to be nor is it where we want it to be. We found out because senior players aren't going as well as hoped (or are off the park) and the more senior replacements haven't shown they are consistently up to AFL standard (Young, Moore, Stewart, Mitchell) have gone backwards (O'Shea) or are slightly past it (Logan). At the same time the junior replacements aren't yet ready to step up "full time" (AhChee, Amon, Shaw, Harvey) and some may just not be up to consistent AFL standard (Butcher, Sam Gray). Getting first year kids from picks 40-60 won't fix any of that. Trade the guys listed that's all we get, 40-60, so if we trade I'd rather we traded for a role player, even a between-the-ears project like Kavanagh. We had a "draft talls" year last year that we definitely needed. I expect consolidation not wholesale changes. The big win for our list management BTW this year is the Krak. Next year after one more pre season for Krak, Amon, AhChee, Harvey I think we'll see things differently to now.

Delist: Mitchell, Butcher, Kane, Stewart, Sam Gray, Logan
Rookie: Stewart
Upgrade: Krak
Big calls: Redden, Young, Moore, O'Shea

I think Mitchell may have some trade value back to a WA club as a depth player (possibly packaged with Shaw?) and also a chance of being re-rookied by us (depends on progress of Polec & White). If Amon keeps progressing this season and the injured pair are both running around well, before trade week I think we'll take whatever we get for Mitchell. I think we've seen Sam Gray's ceiling and what our list doesn't need is a smaller, slower, lightweight hybrid of Tom Logan and Angus Monfries. Sadly, based on the reports of those who watch him in SANFL (and on my recollection of AFL games) I think it's over for Butch here and we'd trade if one was offered and wish him good luck.

IMO the club will back Redden with another 1 year contract. It's too risky to have no physically AFL ready to go rucks on the main list, and with the potential complications of WADA/Paddy there's no point shuffling Redden to the rookie list per Logan (and as suggested for Stewart). I'd hope the club wouldn't trade for Young, would entertain a trade for O'Shea if he asks (hopefully for a player not a pick) and re-contracts Moore rather than is forced to the table.

I liked most of what you said here. Here my take:

Delist: Russell, Logan, Gray & Butcher (Trade if possible)
Rookie: Mitchell & Any decent ruck in rookie draft
Upgrade: Krak
Trade: Stewart, Moore & O'Shea
Ultimatum: Shaw
Retain: Redden & Young

It's obvious Gray and Mitchell are SANFL players with no real stand out attributes but I would still retain Mitchell on the rookie list for one more year. Times up for Russell & Logan and with Gray at the end of his allocated 2 year period someone can be on the rookie list he either has to be upgraded or delisted and I don't think he's up to standard to be upgraded. If someone is stupid enough to accept Butcher as part of a trade then he can be traded but I don't think Carlton or any team would do another Liam Jones trade. I would also look at any ruckmen in the rookie draft that we can rookie list just as a 4th/5th option.

Definitely upgrade Krakouer, that's a no brainer. At the start of the season I didn't have any players locked in as trade bait, but I had some ideas if they didn't step up. Moore is the no.1 candidate, at the start of the season Young had passed him and now Ah Chee has passed him. He's been in the system long enough and he hasn't stepped up and I think we could definitely get something decent as he is an exceptionally professional player and former high pick. I didn't have O'Shea on the table at the start of the season but with Ryder in the side its obvious we no longer need or can play 4 tall defenders even though we look like we'll try anyway so in that case O'Shea is further from the starting team and this season Clurey has stepped up as well so we can afford to explore options to trade O'Shea. Stewart was banging the door down to come in a few weeks ago and I thought he should have come in earlier and his first two games he was solid but the Geelong game he was invisible, he's contracted until next year so I think with Harvey & Shaw maturing and should be pushing for first team contention next season his role as 3rd/4th tall isn't as important. So lets see what we can get for Moore, Stewart and O'Shea.

We have to keep Redden on the list for the reason you stated, just as back up as Frampton isn't remotely ready. Shaw and Young have to step up in the second half of this year and next year or they will be considered for trading by the end of next year.

 

[Forzaport]

I'd wait until Shaw's future is known before delisting Butcher.

 

[Macca19]

Gorringe showing Port they made a mistake in not following through with the trade has worked wonders for him. Struggling in the NEAFL.

 

[Arsene Wenger]

No need for Gorringe after his little sook last year.

Charlie Dixon is the one for me. He would have worked with Ken at the GC. Get him to Port.

 

[Arsene Wenger]

No need for Gorringe after his little sook last year.

Charlie Dixon is the one for me. He would have worked with Ken at the GC. Get him to Port.

 

[FallingLiefs]

George Hewett please.