Training Pre-Season Training, News & Updates

[Willo_]

Well it's a creative thought. But if I was a 22 year old celebrity. Like hell am I doing a preseason for 70k.

70k.... i am pretty sure rookies get about 20k less than that...

Which further emphasises your point really

 

[catempire]

Wouldn't be a good forward like for a wet and windy July evening in Geelong that's for sure

We going to leave Hawkins or Clark out?

 

[Cattery]

I'm sorry but I just can't cop this. We've recruited 4 25 year olds, not 4 28 year olds. The core of our next generation is still made up of our youngsters under the age of 25. The players that we have brought in will be able to develop along with this generation. SJ would not be able to unfortunately. That's just the way that it is.

Don't think you give up two first round draft picks for a group of players who will all be twenty six by the time the first ball is kicked in anger unless you were aiming for short term success, so in that regard another year, or possibly even two from Johnson would be more then handy I would have thought.

I love the guy and always will but he dug his own grave in many respects.

How exactly did he do that?

If you were to listen to the Hocking interview objectively rather than just hear what you want to hear you would see this. He will always be a legend of this club but the time came for the club to move on without him.

Just because I have a different opinion on it doesn't mean I didn't listen to it objectively, I listened not wanting to hear anything in particular other then a clear reason as to why Johnson was shown the door, unfortunately I never heard it, merely someone sounding more like a politician at question time.

And how exactly was Johnson preventing the club from moving on?

 

[ChookNorris]

We going to leave Hawkins or Clark out?

It would be more about making sure you didn't have Bartel and Menzel in at the same time really.

 

[catempire]

It would be more about making sure you didn't have Bartel and Menzel in at the same time really.

Why?

 

[ChookNorris]

Why?

Just think it would be slow and lack pressure. But if I had to choose two I'd want in there it would be Clark and hawk ahead of the other two, then add some genuine speed and pressure around them. Maybe with Bartel and Menzel rotating as the 3rd forward. Mccarthy pressures, so does Murdoch, even cockatoo lurking around.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

We will be. Unfortunately we frequently sacrifice team balance for personal favourites so you can confidently predict that will happen. Add Vardy too for good measure.

Now there's an exaggeration

 

[Willo_]

We going to leave Hawkins or Clark out?

It's a big assumption that Clark is still on the park by July unfortunately

 

[ChookNorris]

It's a big assumption that Clark is still on the park by July unfortunately

Would be great if he was, looked more dangerous and kicked more goals than hawk to start the season.

 

[Turbocat]

Just think it would be slow and lack pressure. But if I had to choose two I'd want in there it would be Clark and hawk ahead of the other two, then add some genuine speed and pressure around them. Maybe with Bartel and Menzel rotating as the 3rd forward. Mccarthy pressures, so does Murdoch, even cockatoo lurking around.

Im not sure what setup we will endup with , but a lot will depend on form and the oppositions setup. There might be times where our forwardline is tall and then others when we just have 1 tall , 2 mediums and 2 smalls. Lang and Gregson and McCarthy and others will be eager to show they can pressure.
I think Bartel and Menzel can easily play in the same side, both offer something in multi roles , and they will have to be , others like Caddy and Danger will be rested there as well.... IMO there will be more pressure on the tall setup. Stanley & Vardy & Clark ??? IF Smith works , it makes it tough on these guys when Blitz will play , and for this year..we will be tall down back.
Traditionally tall forwardline work better early but by middle of season its lost its umphh.

 

[Willo_]

It would be more about making sure you didn't have Bartel and Menzel in at the same time really.

To be honest I'd have Menz at half forward pushing up the ground, Jimmy deep in those conditions I mentioned.. Hawk a deep forward.. and Kersten could play CHF and work up the ground as most of his presenting works for chest marks getting away from his opponent anyway which is what is needed in the wet more than marks overhead

 

[catempire]

Just think it would be slow and lack pressure. But if I had to choose two I'd want in there it would be Clark and hawk ahead of the other two, then add some genuine speed and pressure around them. Maybe with Bartel and Menzel rotating as the 3rd forward. Mccarthy pressures, so does Murdoch, even cockatoo lurking around.

When Bartel last played a substantial time forward he was a tackling machine (over 4 per game IIRC). Yes, they'll try to run off him but he's a dangerous player to try to do that with. As always, you need to ask what the alternative is. Someone like McCarthy? Maybe in time and if he reaches Bartel's level that's fantastic for the team.

Menzel is very quick so I'm not sure if speed is your concern or you think he's poor defensively? Small sample of games makes the latter hard to judge from my view.

 

[catempire]

It's a big assumption that Clark is still on the park by July unfortunately

Of course, but we are dealing in hypotheticals here. If he was available I can't see him being left out for defensive pressure reasons (or for any reason for that matter).

 

[Lana]

I'll preface this by saying that I have no problem with having Bartel and Menzel in the forward line at the same time, give that in any given game we'll probably rotate 9 to 11 players through the forwardline. Regardless of their pace they're both smart footballers who go the right places, Wherever Bartel lines up he'll average his 20+ disposals per game.

When Bartel last played a substantial time forward he was a tackling machine (over 4 per game IIRC). Yes, they'll try to run off him but he's a dangerous player to try to do that with. As always, you need to ask what the alternative is. Someone like McCarthy? Maybe in time and if he reaches Bartel's level that's fantastic for the team.

I wonder how many of those tackles were from a stoppage situation to compared to in open play. Towards the end of Chapman's career at Geelong he'd get plenty of tackles but a large majority of them were from stoppage situations. Tackles are one of those stats the can get padded especally for players who pinch hit in the middle.

Menzel is very quick so I'm not sure if speed is your concern or you think he's poor defensively? Small sample of games makes the latter hard to judge from my view.

On watching him at the VFL level his defensive pressure left a lot to be desired, but IMO it was caused by simply not being fit enough, he was often too exhausted to chase.

 

[Willo_]

Of course, but we are dealing in hypotheticals here. If he was available I can't see him being left out for defensive pressure reasons (or for any reason for that matter).

I hope he is available and then it simply becomes a form thing and we pick the best person at the time.

And thinking over it properly as long as we are adaptable to the conditions/opposition and at the same time keep the balance right it doesn't really matter who is there

 

[catempire]

I'll preface this by saying that I have no problem with having Bartel and Menzel in the forward line at the same time, give that in any given game we'll probably rotate 9 to 11 players through the forwardline. Regardless of their pace they're both smart footballers who go the right places, Wherever Bartel lines up he'll average his 20+ disposals per game.



I wonder how many of those tackles were from a stoppage situation to compared to in open play. Towards the end of Chapman's career at Geelong he'd get plenty of tackles but a large majority of them were from stoppage situations. Tackles are one of those stats the can get padded especally for players who pinch hit in the middle.

I don't wonder. I'm speaking from observation - he's an underrated defensive player IMO.

On watching him at the VFL level his defensive pressure left a lot to be desired, but IMO it was caused by simply not being fit enough, he was often too exhausted to chase.

Fair enough. The fitness point is valid and, as I said, small career sample so far so not any basis for concern (yet) IMO.

 

[Partridge]

Menzel is very quick so I'm not sure if speed is your concern or you think he's poor defensively? Small sample of games makes the latter hard to judge from my view.

For me, it's mobility. I was very close to the fence against Adelaide and his inability to take off once the ball hit the ground was stark. Maybe it's just one game.

 

[Cataholic]

For me, it's mobility. I was very close to the fence against Adelaide and his inability to take off once the ball hit the ground was stark. Maybe it's just one game.

Maybe the knee surgeries have taken it's toll on his ability to 'push off' ?

 

[Partridge]

Maybe the knee surgeries have taken it's toll on his ability to 'push off' ?

Yep, I'd say that's a reasonable take on it for sure.

 

[Cataholic]

Yep, I'd say that's a reasonable take on it for sure.

What was your observation about his acceleration and speed after, say, the first 5 metres?

 

[dazbroncos]

Could also be soreness - general soreness from the week before. Was his first 3/4 game at full tempo and no doubt that, combined with adrenaline, would have fatigued him.

Not discounting the above facts at all but I'm sure the above would be a contributing factor.

Go Catters

 

[Cataholic]

Could also be soreness - general soreness from the week before. Was his first 3/4 game at full tempo and no doubt that, combined with adrenaline, would have fatigued him.

Not discounting the above facts at all but I'm sure the above would be a contributing factor.

Go Catters

Makes perfct sense.

 

[catswhiskers]

Menzel is on record as saying he was exhausted before the Adelaide game. Attributed to euphorea of the comeback game, celebrations /wellwishing and release of the comeback doco. He had a lot of trouble sleeping apparently. My theory is that with all that in mind add in the likelihood he didn't want to go flat chat in an "exhibition" game and so make sure he could reset via a strong preseason (for 2016).

His work around the ball in the VFL (even at centre bounces) didn't leave me thinking he was short of a yard. He was probably short of a gallop though as has been pointed out.

 

[The rabbi]

I love the guy and always will but he dug his own grave in many respects. If you were to listen to the Hocking interview objectively rather than just hear what you want to hear you would see this. He will always be a legend of this club but the time came for the club to move on without him.

Do you have a link for this interview Stan?

I have tried to search for it and cannot find it.
It would be much appreciated.

 

[The rabbi]

Does anyone know where training is tomorrow?
I have an RDO and may as well have a look.