Oppo Camp 2012 non-Geelong AFL match and general discussion

[vinum coupe]

Agree
He polled 23 votes 2011, after how many losses?? And NO preseason. He's absolutely on fire this year.

And Saints are as always a genuine top 6 contender. Their first round loss is similar to ours, identical in fact as far as margins, and their draw is very conducive to lots of early wins.

Never write them off when they still have their top 10 intact, and as good as any team's top 10.

No they aren't.
Will be lucky to make the 8
Certainly not contenders. They are done.

 

[vinum coupe]

I read that a little wrong.
I thought you were saying 'contenders'

Who cares about 'top 6 contenders'?
That's like worrying about Melbourne pre season.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

And Saints are as always a genuine top 6 contender. Their first round loss is similar to ours, identical in fact as far as margins, and their draw is very conducive to lots of early wins.

Never write them off when they still have their top 10 intact, and as good as any team's top 10.

Can't agree with this, VEEDUBS. Their top ten was surely there 2-3 years ago, but that was exactly their problem last year. Riewoldt, Gilbert, Montagna and Goddard (though I still argue that Goddard's year was underrated and if someone like Mackie had Goddard's year in 2011, he would have been AA) were all down last year. Hayes wasn't there. So, now you'd say their best ten is something like: Riewoldt, Dal Santo, Goddard, Montagna, Hayes, Fisher, Milne, Jones, McEvoy, Armitage. Gilbert may push back in, maybe he won't. Schneider would be borderline. Will Riewoldt get back to his 2009 form? I doubt it. It's just not that intimidating a lineup anymore and even the old 'Their best six/eight/ten' argument doesn't really hold water anymore.

Collingwood: Pendlebury, Swan, Cloke, Thomas, Reid, Ball, Shaw, Didak (based on career), Tarrant, Jolly

Hawthorn: Franklin, Mitchell, Hodge, Birchall, Sewell, Rioli, Roughead, Gibson, Burgoyne, Shiels/Savage/Suckling (all quality, can't really split them)

Geelong: Selwood, Bartel, Scarlett, Enright, Kelly, Chapman, Johnson, Lonergan, Corey, Hawkins/Pods (reckon Taylor's been pushed out for now)

West Coast: Cox, Glass, Kerr, Priddis, Kennedy, LeCras, Embley, Waters, Gaff, S. Selwood

Carlton: Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Scotland, Kreuzer, Simpson, Yarran, Betts, Walker, Carrazzo

Sydney: Goodes, Mumford, Kennedy, O'Keefe, Reid, Bolton, Jack, McGlynn, McVeigh, Malceski

Fremantle: Pavlich, Fyfe, Sandilands, McPharlin, Barlow, Mundy, Duffield, Broughton, Hill, Morabito

Their depth was always an issue, but their star-power just doesn't look that impressive anymore. Of course, if Riewoldt has a rennaissance, that changes the complexion of things.

 

[Turbocat]

Te funny thing is , I think he is getting more cred for the way he is playing and leading in that Red Jumpered bunch of kindergarten miscreants. He has chosen his path , its as if he was once Cat Ablett who has now turned his back on success to now follow the path of an evangelistic Football Cult , The Red People.

Im sure he knew what he was getting into or perhaps he had delusions of grandeur. Perhaps he thought with him in the side they would be winning games before long. Either way , I'm sure he will be recognized as a 4 or 5 times B&F winner , who else is going to win them.

 

[Vdubs]

Can't agree with this, VEEDUBS. Their top ten was surely there 2-3 years ago, but that was exactly their problem last year. Riewoldt, Gilbert, Montagna and Goddard (though I still argue that Goddard's year was underrated and if someone like Mackie had Goddard's year in 2011, he would have been AA) were all down last year. Hayes wasn't there. So, now you'd say their best ten is something like: Riewoldt, Dal Santo, Goddard, Montagna, Hayes, Fisher, Milne, Jones, McEvoy, Armitage. Gilbert may push back in, maybe he won't. Schneider would be borderline. Will Riewoldt get back to his 2009 form? I doubt it. It's just not that intimidating a lineup anymore and even the old 'Their best six/eight/ten' argument doesn't really hold water anymore.

Collingwood: Pendlebury, Swan, Cloke, Thomas, Reid, Ball, Shaw, Didak (based on career), Tarrant, Jolly

Hawthorn: Franklin, Mitchell, Hodge, Birchall, Sewell, Rioli, Roughead, Gibson, Burgoyne, Shiels/Savage/Suckling (all quality, can't really split them)

Geelong: Selwood, Bartel, Scarlett, Enright, Kelly, Chapman, Johnson, Lonergan, Corey, Hawkins/Pods (reckon Taylor's been pushed out for now)

West Coast: Cox, Glass, Kerr, Priddis, Kennedy, LeCras, Embley, Waters, Gaff, S. Selwood

Carlton: Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Scotland, Kreuzer, Simpson, Yarran, Betts, Walker, Carrazzo

Sydney: Goodes, Mumford, Kennedy, O'Keefe, Reid, Bolton, Jack, McGlynn, McVeigh, Malceski

Fremantle: Pavlich, Fyfe, Sandilands, McPharlin, Barlow, Mundy, Duffield, Broughton, Hill, Morabito

Their depth was always an issue, but their star-power just doesn't look that impressive anymore. Of course, if Riewoldt has a rennaissance, that changes the complexion of things.

OK, so they are 8th!!??
BTW, very impressive analysis. Maybe we could rate these guys/10, and see how they stack up. A little subjective, and I think you've convinced me they are not as good as previously.

May have had Harry ahead of Smithy for this year.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

We havent quite finished round 2 -so its very early days -but from what ive seen so far -but if i had to pick the Premiership winner and my life was riding on it or say all my tangible Assets -then i would be picking Carlton -sure theve beaten no one -but they have been super impressive -and the one asset they have got which none of the other challenges have got is they are so quick and all over the ground

I was so glad when the Eagles beat them narrowly in that final last year -because the Eagles had no hope of beating us (and i posted that at the time ) where as Carlton would have been a real Danger game.

The other thing i think - is that Carlton are desperate or hell bent on winning a flag -a bit like us in 2007 -nothing was going to stop Geelong winning the flag in 2007

So all things being equal and assuming everyone has a fair run with injuries -i would have Carlton as flag favourites

 

[Vdubs]

We havent quite finished round 2 -so its very early days -but from what ive seen so far -but if i had to pick the Premiership winner and my life was riding on it or say all my tangible Assets -then i would be picking Carlton -sure theve beaten no one -but they have been super impressive -and the one asset they have got which none of the other challenges have got is they are so quick and all over the ground

I was so glad when the Eagles beat them narrowly in that final last year -because the Eagles had no hope of beating us (and i posted that at the time ) where as Carlton would have been a real Danger game.

The other thing i think - is that Carlton are desperate or hell bent on winning a flag -a bit like us in 2007 -nothing was going to stop Geelong winning the flag in 2007

So all things being equal and assuming everyone has a fair run with injuries -i would have Carlton as flag favourites

YUK
Almost as appalling as Hawks.
WCE look very scary to me, what is their weakness, other than the accumulative effects of jet lag, which I'm sure Woosha will have some HEALTHY remedy for anyway.

 

[manboob]

Not having seen enough of any of Carltank, Collingwood or Hawks I would agree GOB. Carlton's speed is the major concern for me - our youngsters have gone someway to alleviating that but we would want to play them on a wet day in Sept/Oct for our bigger bodies to get on top.

To all the other posters; I am in total agreement about Ablett such a shame and a waste that he is running around with a second rate VFL team. It's kinda sad and not just cause he was a Geelong bloke. Kinda like watching Robert Harvey or Scott West for all those years.

 

[manboob]

YUK
Almost as appalling as Hawks.
WCE look very scary to me, what is their weakness, other than the accumulative effects of jet lag, which I'm sure Woosha will have some remedy for anyway.

In before lawsuit

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

OK, so they are 8th!!??

Maybe, but I reckon they've still got that issue with their depth as well and other teams bat a bit lower. We'll see, I guess.

WCE look very scary to me, what is their weakness, other than the accumulative effects of jet lag, which I'm sure Woosha will have some remedy for anyway.

Midfield. They're not terrible or anything and Cox/Naitanui help a lot, but Priddis/Kerr/S. Selwood/Shuey/Masten etc. just aren't up there with the other top teams, in my opinion.

 

[Vdubs]

Maybe, but I reckon they've still got that issue with their depth as well and other teams bat a bit lower. We'll see, I guess.



Midfield. They're not terrible or anything and Cox/Naitanui help a lot, but Priddis/Kerr/S. Selwood/Shuey/Masten etc. just aren't up there with the other top teams, in my opinion.

Priddis is as good if not better than any extractor we have, quite underrated. Kerr is brilliant but injury prone, S Selwood is hopefully on our radar, yes , maybe they don't have our depth, but yes, Cox/ NICNAT is the dynamic duo.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Priddis is as good if not better than any extractor we have, quite underrated. Kerr is brilliant but injury prone, S Selwood is hopefully on our radar, yes , maybe they don't have our depth, but yes, Cox/ NICNAT is the dynamic duo.

The bolded fellow is an absolute star. He will be just as good or if not better than Joel. I've watched him closely this year and i'm in amazement at just how good he is. If we could get him to the Cats then i'd be stoked.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Priddis is as good if not better than any extractor we have, quite underrated. Kerr is brilliant but injury prone, S Selwood is hopefully on our radar, yes , maybe they don't have our depth, but yes, Cox/ NICNAT is the dynamic duo.

Agreed. But they're a very good team, so picking a flaw is difficult. A similar prospect to saying our forwardline was our weakness around 2009, despite having three All-Australians in there, along with guys like Rooke, Varcoe and Byrnes (not saying West Coast are as good as we were in 2009, but you get what I mean). Picking a weakness is a relative thing against the strengths of your other areas.

I admit I haven't seen much of the Eagles this year, but I assume considering the rave reviews on here, Scott Selwood is no longer tagging? I agree, he's a very good player, but better than Joel?

 

[marshhhhh]

Any opinions on the big one tonight?
Still can't believe that Carlton are favourites.
They have massive mental hurdles to climb and the Pies team is looking incredibly strong.
Pies by 4 goals with Cloke to have a monster.

Thoughts?

 

[James1970]

Any opinions on the big one tonight?
Still can't believe that Carlton are favourites.
They have massive mental hurdles to climb and the Pies team is looking incredibly strong.
Pies by 4 goals with Cloke to have a monster.

Thoughts?

Toss of the coin - Blues are a bit like the Hawks last week. If they can't get the Pies tonight, they never will. Wouldn't be surprised to see Judd play more forward and kick goals against the weaker Pies backline. But for tipping sake, I've gone Pies by 10 points. Cloke should have a night out, in what is an unbelieveably beautiful night for football, but he's no Hawkins!

 

[Selective Retention]

Judd doesn't kick goals. It's the main reason Ablett is a superior player to him.

I'm on the pies.

Here's to seeing them smash each other to pieces

 

[marshhhhh]

Judd doesn't kick goals. It's the main reason Ablett is a superior player to him.

I'm on the pies.

Here's to seeing them smash each other to pieces

So injuries will be the real winner on the night?

 

[BotsMaster]

Pies to win by 20 points tonight

 

[winty]

Bruce & Dennis will be salivating at any possession Judd gets

"Judddddd'....ohhhhhh look at the handball", it's simply breathtaking!"

Or "Judd with a superb kick there!"....as the ball bounces 10m in front of the intended target and rolls out of bounds.

 

[marshhhhh]

This is the first season of football where Bruce has really started giving me the shits.

 

[vinum coupe]

Any opinions on the big one tonight?
Still can't believe that Carlton are favourites.
They have massive mental hurdles to climb and the Pies team is looking incredibly strong.
Pies by 4 goals with Cloke to have a monster.

Thoughts?

I think Carlton will stamp themselves tonight.
I reckon Collingwood are behind us in regards to fitness, form, injuries. AND they have buckley.

I'd be worried if we were playing Carlton.

I hope the pies get them (because i'm sick of "we're coming"). But I cant see it

 

[Selective Retention]

In many ways Carlton are the worst match up of the three top vic teams for us.

 

[Selective Retention]

Harry O'Brien biggest headless chook in the business when under pressure.

 

[marshhhhh]

who's stronger
Cloke or Hawkins?

Have to say Cloke at the moment but Hawk really coming on.
Few more weeks will give a clearer idea.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

As I type Ball is in the hands of the trainers with some sort of leg injury. Would be a big loss for the Pies.