List Mgmt. 2015 TRADE discussion

[youngbear]

Melksham is out of contract and hasn't got any reported interest at another club. Why would we be stupid enough to give up any more than a 4th round pick for him?

Our drafting has been terrible in the past, really don't want to have to read articles of "what ifs" if we drop our bundle at the trade table.

4th round or PSD; take it or leave it...

 

[Dez!]

So you'd take Ben Ken for JKH?

No.

 

[LeverPuller]

Melksham is out of contract and hasn't got any reported interest at another club. Why would we be stupid enough to give up any more than a 4th round pick for him?

Our drafting has been terrible in the past, really don't want to have to read articles of "what ifs" if we drop our bundle at the trade table.

4th round or PSD; take it or leave it...

PSD isn't exactly a threat, Dons pick before that

 

[Dez!]

PSD isn't exactly a threat, Dons pick before that

Cool they can pick him up again then.

 

[Bluelegs]

This is going to be JKH's version of Juice's mark of the year, except he didn't even win. At this stage, JKH is a flashy player who has shown nothing to suggest he'll be on the list past next season.

You campaigners are too impatient. He has talent and will improve with the team.

 

[Sellout Scully]

So you'd take Ben Ken for JKH?

I personally would yes. Some others may disagree with me though.

 

[Tulip]

You campaigners are too impatient. He has talent and will improve with the team.

Your thoughts on Toumpas, meanwhile?

 

[Bluelegs]

Your thoughts on Toumpas, meanwhile?

Player who has shown some spark rarely > player who has shown nothing whatsoever.

 

[Tulip]

Player who has shown some spark rarely > player who has shown nothing whatsoever.

So you value one instance of "shake and bake" over everything Toumpas has shown? You prefer a player who prefers not to get his hands dirty at all, to one who gets nervous but still tries anyway?

 

[Bluelegs]

So you value one instance of "shake and bake" over everything Toumpas has shown? You prefer a player who prefers not to get his hands dirty at all, to one who gets nervous but still tries anyway?

I value everything jkh has shown over everything Toumpas has shown. Toumpas' best pales in comparrison to jkh best. Jkh v Gws was far superior to Toumpas v Bulldogs, which was seriously average.

 

[Tulip]

I value everything jkh has shown over everything Toumpas has shown. Toumpas' best pales in comparrison to jkh best. Jkh v Gws was far superior to Toumpas v Bulldogs, which was seriously average.

11 touches and one goal, what a game!

 

[Bluelegs]

11 touches and one goal, what a game!

Efficient ball use > stats. Toumpas v Bulldogs got a lot of the ball and did very little with it. JKH is a much smarter footballer. A few more years and he'll be solid.

If your argument is seriously just this snarky bitching then im not going to take it very seriously.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

A bit unfair on both counts.

JKH had a great pressure game v GWS and last year showed a good sense for creative play inside 50.

Toump works hard but is struggling mentally it seems, that can happen - he could be one pre-season away from a breakout year or a poor year away from imploding.

Guys like ANB and Stretch have come into the team much more mentally fresh then Toump, I don't know if that's a reflection on his years under Neeld (where apparently there was a fair bit of pressure on talented players) or his personality or both.

 

[Dez!]

Efficient ball use > stats. Toumpas v Bulldogs got a lot of the ball and did very little with it. JKH is a much smarter footballer. A few more years and he'll be solid.

If your argument is seriously just this snarky bitching then im not going to take it very seriously.

Toumpas vs St Kilda and vs Dogs were better than anything JKH has shown.

Got plenty of the ball, clearances and kicked some goals.

 

[Bluelegs]

Toumpas vs St Kilda and vs Dogs were better than anything JKH has shown.

Got plenty of the ball, clearances and kicked some goals.

Bullshit. Panicked under pressure and constant turnovers. Stuffed up our ball movement a lot vs Dogs. Admitedly scored a good goal due to some hard gut running.

 

[Tulip]

Efficient ball use > stats. Toumpas v Bulldogs got a lot of the ball and did very little with it. JKH is a much smarter footballer. A few more years and he'll be solid.

If your argument is seriously just this snarky bitching then im not going to take it very seriously.

You're calling people 'campaigners' for not being ultra-patient with a guy who struggles to get to double digit possessions, all whilst calling a 21 year old absolutely useless. Its blindingly obvious how much of a hypocrite you're being here.

 

[Dez!]

Bullshit. Panicked under pressure and constant turnovers. Stuffed up our ball movement a lot vs Dogs. Admitedly scored a good goal due to some hard gut running.

He went at 75% efficiency with 3 clangers, I'm aware DE% isn't the be all and end all but it gives a bit of a measure. Picked up 20 disposals, 6 tackles, 5 marks and 2 goals in 78% TOG, he was one of our best players.

Against St Kilda he went at 85% efficiency with 0 clangers, he picked up 26 disposals with 4 clearances (2 center clearances), 8 tackles, 5 marks and 2 goals in 86% TOG.

Better than what JKH has shown.

 

[Tulip]

Anyway, because I really don't feel like writing this assignment and want to clarify my position...here are my thoughts.

Kennedy-Harris: Exciting player when he gets the ball in his hand, and definitely capable of kicking a goal. Was a spark in 2014, but really struggled with second-year blues last year and didn't help himself by showing a complete lack of appetite. Players have shown less at 19 and come back to have good careers, so I wouldn't write him off - but he needs to commit himself to the contest and get really big because he doesn't have the electrifying pace (Garlett) and/or the intensity (Kent) that a guy forward of the ball needs. Has played all of his football under Roos, which is a big factor in his development going forward.

Toumpas: Absolutely shits himself when he gets near it, but that has as much to do with fearing our rabid crowd as it does body contact. Dealt with two hip injuries which seems to have wiped out his gait and endurance; hard luck but he needs to fix it or there won't be a list spot for him. His disposal only seems good when he's had a few warm up kicks, so he's pretty inefficient when he doesn't hit 15 touches by about three quarter time. Can kick a goal and take a mark, and his year under Neeld cannot be discounted.

 

[Bluelegs]

You're calling people 'campaigners' for not being ultra-patient with a guy who struggles to get to double digit possessions, all whilst calling a 21 year old absolutely useless. Its blindingly obvious how much of a hypocrite you're being here.

If a player shows a decent amount of talent (especially as a late pick) they deserve some patience. If they are consistently detrimental to the team and we get a decent offer for them then we should trade them. If we dont get a decent offer for Toumpas keep him on the list. But we made a mistake when we didn't take a second rounder for Watts and I don't think we should make the same mistake twice.

 

[Bluelegs]

He went at 75% efficiency with 3 clangers, I'm aware DE% isn't the be all and end all but it gives a bit of a measure. Picked up 20 disposals, 6 tackles, 5 marks and 2 goals in 78% TOG, he was one of our best players.

Against St Kilda he went at 85% efficiency with 0 clangers, he picked up 26 disposals with 4 clearances (2 center clearances), 8 tackles, 5 marks and 2 goals in 86% TOG.

Better than what JKH has shown.

He passed to players under pressure and got tackled unecessarily. Seriously go watch that game again. This was one of his 'best' games and it was barely passable as an AFL player.

 

[youngbear]

PSD isn't exactly a threat, Dons pick before that

Considering I don't want him I'd prefer this.

If they do, we can just pass and take an extra rookie.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

PSD or nothing. If Essendon aren't going to sign him for $400k over 4 years now why would they wait until the PSD to do it? Melksham is walking out because he's going to get a better offer elsewhere. Either we take him in the PSD or Carlton, Brisbane, GC, and the Saints might if they're willing to give him the same contract.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Essendon can accept a fourth or maybe third rounder if they want, but they sure as * aren't getting a second for someone they had the opportunity to keep.

 

[Cannon82]

Why the arguing over JKH and Toumpas? Neither of them are best 22 at the moment, would be lucky to be in the emergencies.

 

[Proper Gander]

Anyway, because I really don't feel like writing this assignment and want to clarify my position...here are my thoughts.

Kennedy-Harris: Exciting player when he gets the ball in his hand, and definitely capable of kicking a goal. Was a spark in 2014, but really struggled with second-year blues last year and didn't help himself by showing a complete lack of appetite. Players have shown less at 19 and come back to have good careers, so I wouldn't write him off - but he needs to commit himself to the contest and get really big because he doesn't have the electrifying pace (Garlett) and/or the intensity (Kent) that a guy forward of the ball needs. Has played all of his football under Roos, which is a big factor in his development going forward.

Toumpas: Absolutely shits himself when he gets near it, but that has as much to do with fearing our rabid crowd as it does body contact. Dealt with two hip injuries which seems to have wiped out his gait and endurance; hard luck but he needs to fix it or there won't be a list spot for him. His disposal only seems good when he's had a few warm up kicks, so he's pretty inefficient when he doesn't hit 15 touches by about three quarter time. Can kick a goal and take a mark, and his year under Neeld cannot be discounted.

I'll write your assignment. If it is about Shakespeare's concept of divinity explored through the prism of a deconstructed King Lear, or Bartok String Quartets, you'll go well. If it's about anything else then you have a problem.

I would personally be happy to see both these boys traded. I get that it is impatient, but I would prefer to take a chance on developing some new talent - neither of these guys seem to be responding enough to demon development. I'd also quite like to see guys chosen by the Roos / Goodwin combo - they would be picking for a particular plan and style rather than making do with what came with the package.