Autopsy 3 things you learnt v Hawks @ MCG

[Parkerman]

1. Goodes to be an explosive sub during the finals. We can carry his lack of defence during H & A, and get important games into Jones, Towers, B Jack, Membrey (hopefully) et al via the green vest. But come finals, he is made for the green vest at this late stage of his career. One quarter of Goodes magic could be the difference.

2. Very concerned with Hawthorn coming from 20 plus behind. Need to better slow down the good teams when they get a run on. Back to the Roos style mauling ruck when needed.

3. Understood the strategy behind subbing Reg when Ceglar went off. But not sure it worked.

Momentum Changer. Rampe going for goal from 50 just before a break. Hawks went straight up the field and Puopolo scored.

 

[bungee]

Yes yes yes yes
We had the pricks we were on top and we got the 4 goal break and folded like grandma being shoved in the boot and taken to a nursing home

Pissed off!!

Great analogy. So graphic. Was this a childhood memory ?

 

[bungee]

1. Goodes to be an explosive sub during the finals.

Momentum Changer. Rampe going for goal from 50 just before a break. Hawks went straight up the field and Puopolo scored.

1. Goodes just being in the forward line takes a lot of pressure off Buddy. Goodes usually takes a bit to work into a game. Not sure he's the man for a sub role.

2. Rampe wasn't the only one taking a wild shot at goal only to see it mopped up and rebounded by loose defenders in wide open space.

3. We seemed to get numbers drawn to the contest too much. Hawks inside mids didn't need to take possession. They knew they only had to tap it clear of the congestion to find an outside runner.

 

[melbournehammer]

A lot of criticism of Goodes on here yet he kicked 4 goals and was our main goal kicker for the night. When Plugger played he couldn't chase down his shadow and turned like the Queen Mary yet no-one criticised him when he kicked a bag of 4. Seriously, here's a superb player in his twilight years still contributing a bag against a top side. His ability to pop up and bag a handful of goals at critical times has kept us in a few this year. What was needed was more pressure around the 50 from our mids. We shouldn't need Goodes to be competing in the air, crumbing at ground level and then doing all the chasing. Besides, kicking straight is the best way to ensure the ball can't be moved out of our attack (except by the umpire when he resets for the centre bounce). Compare Goode's 4.0 with Buddy's 3.5. That's 5 times he's given the Hawks a free kick from defence for the paltry return of only 5 points.

*Note: It was a Leyland P76 you're thinking of.

I reckon I have been more critical than most...but it's not criticism so much as a concern that the game has gone past him. It's not like the effort is missing but he just gets run off at will which means everyone else is already covering for him.

In any case I am not sure your position is right. Trent Dennis lane was good for a couple of goals a game. So was Mitch Morton. Neither could get an extended run because of their defense.

Against a side like hawthorn where all of their defenders can hit a target it destroys you if the ball comes out with no pressure on it. They have to be forced to kick to contests.

 

[Parkerman]

1. Goodes just being in the forward line takes a lot of pressure off Buddy. Goodes usually takes a bit to work into a game. Not sure he's the man for a sub role.

2. Rampe wasn't the only one taking a wild shot at goal only to see it mopped up and rebounded by loose defenders in wide open space.

Fair call re Goodes. But I can just see a guy like Birchall starting on him and running off him and causing havoc. Much like how we play Malceski on the opposition's third forward.

It was the timing of Rampe's 50 yard shot, a minute before half time IIRC, which let Hawthorn run off with their tails up.

 

[The King!]

Great analogy. So graphic. Was this a childhood memory ?

I remember asking about her moustache

Doesnt talk to me much since

 

[bungee]

I remember asking about her moustache

Doesnt talk to me much since

Big bad wolf : 'How did you know I wasn't Grandma ?'
Red riding hood : 'It was the moustache'
Big bad wolf : 'But I don't have a moustache'
Red riding hood : I know, but Grandma does'

 

[The King!]

Hawks fans like to come and tell us how it is after a game, basically no matter the result they are a fabulous side

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Im not exactly answering your question but if the umps paid his mark in the goal square in the dying minutes we would have won, it was a momentum changer.

And if they weren't going to pay the mark, they should have penalised Josh Gibson, I think it was, for his deliberate rushed behind. I was screaming at the telly but the commentators didn't even raise it.

 

[S120]

And if they weren't going to pay the mark, they should have penalised Josh Gibson, I think it was, for his deliberate rushed behind. I was screaming at the telly but the commentators didn't even raise it.

It's almost as if they couldn't hear you yelling.

 

[Parkerman]

...but it's not criticism so much as a concern that the game has gone past him. It's not like the effort is missing but he just gets run off at will which means everyone else is already covering for him.

Goodes has been a champion and is still capable of champion moments/quarters. You know he can outmark ANYONE (and kick straight) but he looks more stressed during the first half against fresh direct and third man opponents. No idea of the stats but his best moments this year seem to have come in the second half of games.

 

[QuietB]

On point 2 i dont have any confidence he will kick them tho! he has been pretty accurate this year just for some reason his kicking turns to s**t against his former side.

On that the Hawks corralled Franklin to deep in the pockets. A lot if the shots he missed were very low percentage shots. Also doubt he will cross paths with Litherland too often in finals either,

 

[baja]

And if they weren't going to pay the mark, they should have penalised Josh Gibson, I think it was, for his deliberate rushed behind. I was screaming at the telly but the commentators didn't even raise it.

It was like a rugby try although it could be fairly argued he was under pressure it was kinda smart but the mark should have been paid. Watching the replay even the commentators wouldn't comment it went quiet. They then set up from the kick out it was a crucial non-decision a real momentum changer.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

It was like a rugby try although it could be fairly argued he was under pressure it was kinda smart but the mark should have been paid. Watching the replay even the commentators wouldn't comment it went quiet. They then set up from the kick out it was a crucial non-decision a real momentum changer.

Hmm, I haven't replayed it yet, but my perception at the time was there was more than just momentum involved; to me it looked like he quite tangibly turned and ran for the goal line. Will check it out. I like watching Gibson, I think he's fantastic, but I'm mindful he did try to BS the goal umpy only minutes earlier by claiming McGlynn's goal was touched and wonder if he's a bit of a wise guy.

 

[bedford]

When your at the game you don't see those things so well, but that was a mark. Anyhow what a great game of footy, we'll get them next time

 

[Troystenvic]

1. Its tough being "UP" for so long and this will make us a better side.

2. Little/No pressure hurt us, we let them have way too many uncontested possessions and they just chopped us up.

3. We got spanked in the middle. Against a bunch of dinosaurs. VERY DISSAPOINTING.

3b. This thread has lost the plot.

 

[bungee]

When Shaw comes back we should be able to move a bit of speed forward (possibly Rohan). We had Rampe, Rohan, Jetta and Cunningham sweeping across our defence but the Hawks were hitting up targets over the top of them. Where our speed could have been used better was inside our own 50, and on the outside. Coming out of their defensive 50 was, IMO, where the Hawks were most vulnerable to pressure. I'd rather see Macca distributing by foot from half back and greater speed moved up the ground. BJ could also have been a useful injection of speed and may have been a better sub than Towers. Towers looked good and has a bit of pace but I still feel BJ would have had more impact. We should also have been marking their outside runners more closely. Too many of them were allowed to sit free off the congestion waiting for the quick tap out. The key to stopping the Hawks is not allowing them any space to get their kicking game on. Another area we were down on was tackling. Hawks players were too easily shaking off our soft tackles.

 

[cinderella man]

1. Its tough being "UP" for so long and this will make us a better side.

2. Little/No pressure hurt us, we let them have way too many uncontested possessions and they just chopped us up.

3. We got spanked in the middle. Against a bunch of dinosaurs. VERY DISSAPOINTING.

3b. This thread has lost the plot.

Everything said in this thread is pointless as far as excuses go including ranting by myself if you consider one thing.

If our bloody midfield live up to their over inflated reputation against Hawthorn they cannot and will not beat us.
Ok to spank inferior midfields but they have to start standing up to Lewis Mitchell & Hodge. It has been our downfall against Collingwood with Pendlebury Swan Beams. Ours are good but can they beat the best ? That is where it is won. End of story.

 

[baja]

The key to stopping the Hawks is not allowing them any space to get their kicking game on. Another area we were down on was tackling. Hawks players were too easily shaking off our soft tackles.

Yep they don't like it tough its how we beat them last time.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

1. Didn't learn anything. We're capable of winning the flag and this loss has changed nothing in that regard.

Win all remaining games and finish first. Simple.

 

[Number37]

Everything said in this thread is pointless as far as excuses go including ranting by myself if you consider one thing.

If our bloody midfield live up to their over inflated reputation against Hawthorn they cannot and will not beat us.
Ok to spank inferior midfields but they have to start standing up to Lewis Mitchell & Hodge. It has been our downfall against Collingwood with Pendlebury Swan Beams. Ours are good but can they beat the best ? That is where it is won. End of story.

Slick ball movement (more than players like Mitchell/Hodge/Swan) has always been our kryptonite, but we have to speed up the game for our own benefit else what is the point of having Tippett and Franklin and 30 others in the forward line?
Our whole midfield and back 6 have an off day and we lost by 10 to arguably the best team (other than us). A couple of minor tweaks is all that is needed.

 

[MinerBoy]

When Gibson was at North, for some reason he always seemed to have Buddy's measure.
.

No he didn't. That myth has grown over years. He once contained Buddy to 3.3 with 3 other NM players peeling off and helping at every contest all game because we were so predictable. Apparently that was a win for Gibbo.

I recall Buddy got hold of him quite a few times to be honest.

 

[LSRU]

1. Big thing I noticed was at the clearances Hawthorn didn't try and take on Kenendy, They stopped him getting first hands at the pill by punching it to space and then smashed us on the spread. Great coaching by Clarko, Hopefully he played that card too early and we will be better prepared next time.

2. Its an obvious one but they are so much more dangerous playing down the "port" side of the ground. they linked up brilliantly and cut us to pieces with their left footers. Need to protect that space better next time, and try and play the other side of the ground. Hannebery key in that regard.

3. Whilst Mgclynn has been awesome. He has taken Jack's role from last year. Im not sure that is a good thing. Hopefully if his body is up to it Jack gets a good run in the middle in the upcoming weeks, so he can regain some touch before finals. His best is far more dangerous

Still confident going into finals.

 

[Mennon]

1. We miss Brett Kirk when we play Hawthorn. He always took care of Mitchell. Now Mitchell is killing us every time.
2. Good teams will be out to exploit Laidler.
3. Hawthorn falter when things get nasty.

 

[S120]

1. We miss Brett Kirk when we play Hawthorn. He always took care of Mitchell. Now Mitchell is killing us every time.
2. Good teams will be out to exploit Laidler.
3. Hawthorn falter when things get nasty.

That will be a very interesting subplot as the club heads to the finals. Purely because Gary Rohan is now in the back line and played two good games in a row there and his physical attributes (speed and size). Laidler has been playing mainly on small and medium forwards this year and while has done a very good job, he has been getting by whilst being at a significant disadvantage when it comes to speed. Saturday night was the first time that he was really shown up in that regard though so it's not like he has been beaten week in, week out.

Rhyce Shaw will come back into the defence this week it seems so will the coaches want to keep Rohan's speed around to take Laidler's spot? I doubt it, Laidler has been so solid this year that I think he'll be retained particularly due to his exceptional ability to intercept and help as the third man up, but Rohan is making some noise now. I imagine Rohan will be the sub for the finals series - now that he has shown he can play in defence solidly, his versatility and speed make him almost perfect to have as the sub - but I wouldn't say he's without a shot of securing a starting defensive spot by the time finals roll around.