Bill Shorten finally gets it...

[Papa G]

Quick websearch couldn't find total caucus numbers but here are the Cabinet figures:

I am genuinely disgusted that the people who are running our country are educated.

 

[Xsess]

Joe Bullock gets it... he strikes me as the sort of bloke that really does have the Labor party’s long-term interests at heart. He sees the disease. But can he and others like him cure it? The nation should thank him for telling the truth and alerting those of us who would otherwise be ignorant of the fact that Pratt is a dangerous radical. The fact that someone like Pratt got the No.2 position on the Labor ticket is evidence enough that Labor is terminal.

 

[Pessimistic]

I thought you didn't support SSM?

I was saying the argument to the alp was a challenge to them to prove their progressiveness, which you just elaborated on, international reputation etc.

Wheres the core arguments ?

 

[Power Raid]

Shorten tries to lessen the choke hold the unions have on the ALP he will get it alright

Just like Rudd and Gillard

he has a heap of support from a new labor faction penetrating the ranks.

There are a heap of guys who have joined labor and joined the unions to help achieve this. This strategy is two pronged by giving labor a new power base by stacking the vote within the existing factions and more importantly tackling corruption within the unions.

I dare say, Labor will be a better party coming into the next few elections. I also hope the unions will be much cleaner organisations with the organised crime element being severed. Either way, I will have a little fun.

 

[Gus Poyet]

While I do agree with aspects of your points, there are certainly areas of diversity that the Coalition have clearly been the slower to embrace, for instance diversity in:
-gender
-religion
-sexual orientation

I would say neither party is truly a bastion of diversity. So yes Labor being it is indeed a myth, but neither is the Coalition.

There's more to it than simply saying they are slower to embrace it.

Look at gender. The statistics showed on that graph that the conservative side of politics is more likely to be married by a fair margin than the labor side. Perhaps married women are less interested or willing to go into politics. It's far less of a commitment for a single, childless person to take on politics than someone who is married with kids. Thus far less conservative women are interested in being a politician.

Religion. The Liberals used to be the dyed in the wool protestant party. Now they are not.

Sexual Orientation. How many of these other orientations are actually conservatives? I'd suggest a very small number. Less still those who might consider being a politician.

To say the Libs aren't diverse is very misleading for the simple fact that a lot of these groups who supposedly represent what "diversity" encompases aren't people who are conservative by nature.

 

[Power Raid]

When i see party faithful handing out how to vote cards, they all look very similar to me. They probably have a lot in common with each other if they could see past the tribalism

Imagine if we could strip away the politics and pork barreling and just had nation building, health, education etc.

We should move toward a system of monthly reporting rather than 14 second sound bite promotions. No pictures, just words in writing to provide a permanent record with the right of reply 2 weeks later once the opposition has the facts.

 

[Power Raid]

While I do agree with aspects of your points, there are certainly areas of diversity that the Coalition have clearly been the slower to embrace, for instance diversity in:
-gender
-religion
-sexual orientation

I would say neither party is truly a bastion of diversity. So yes Labor being it is indeed a myth, but neither is the Coalition.

I would suggest that has more to do with age of voters rather than the party they support.

ie there is a reason why both lib and lab are still anti gay marriage (its called baby boomers and older)

 

[Taylor]

Another union install, I guess. Good point

That would be the one who just resigned a week or so ago, the one with the nose.
He is a really, really good debater and you've love him in your corner but the guy has politician written all over him.

Oh, it looks like Chris Pyne thinks he would walk into the Labor leadership role too.

Paul Howes!

 

[Xsess]

Thanks to Labor ,Greens and Trade Union thuggery the young people of Australia have lost the ability to start their own business and earn a good living. With manufacturing gone our youth have been reduced to third world employment status. History will show the greatest creators of poverty were the Trade Unions of Australia and the Prime Ministers of the Labor Green governments.

 

[Dry Rot]

Shorten has another problem coming up with the Royal Commission

http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/201...-commission-about-bill-shorten-yesterday.html

 

[Docker Clint]

Wouldn't put it past Bullock to resign and sit as an independent.

 

[pazza]

Thanks to Labor ,Greens and Trade Union thuggery the young people of Australia have lost the ability to start their own business and earn a good living. With manufacturing gone our youth have been reduced to third world employment status. History will show the greatest creators of poverty were the Trade Unions of Australia and the Prime Ministers of the Labor Green governments.

There is not a single piece of evidence of union thuggery anywhere.

The Emporium stuff here in Melbourne cited as an example of it was really a case of Grocon, the Napthine Governement and the media buying off the judges to get the decision they wanted. It is Grocon that needs to have a Royal Commission on it and not the CFMEU and it's about time this dodgy piece of Melbourne Mafia was investigated.

 

[Xsess]

There is not a single piece of evidence of union thuggery anywhere.

No of course not

 

[Taylor]

No of course not

Every single person I work with over 30 has a story about unions, ranging from strikes because of ice cream to hanging a guy off a highrise floor to threaten him.

 

[Gus Poyet]

There is not a single piece of evidence of union thuggery anywhere.

Except the whole history of Union violence, thugery, intimidation and blackmail.

 

[Power Raid]

Except the whole history of Union violence, thugery, intimidation and blackmail.

But other than that and other criminal and underhanded behaviour, there have been no issues.


It is such a shame some people don't realise this actually hurts them more than it benefits them. They think the breadcrumbs cast their way makes up for the damage to them.

 

[Gus Poyet]

There is not a single piece of evidence of union thuggery anywhere.

The Emporium stuff here in Melbourne cited as an example of it was really a case of Grocon, the Napthine Governement and the media buying off the judges to get the decision they wanted. It is Grocon that needs to have a Royal Commission on it and not the CFMEU and it's about time this dodgy piece of Melbourne Mafia was investigated.

Bill Shorten disagrees.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ter-bill-shorten/story-fn59noo3-1226460804428

 

[pazza]

The fact is there are more criminals in big business than in the union movement.

Let's start with tax avoidance. All of those shelf schemes and hiding money in tax havens. Really should see Murdoch or Packer doing 20 years for avoiding tax in the way each have done.

Then there's the amount of crimes committed by business in construction projects. How many deaths and injuries have occurred in the workplace because the blokes in the suits just haven't given a s**t about the people working at the coal-face? Thousands. Really every workplace death should be at the level of a manslaughter charge.

Then there's the freedom of association. Why should employers and Governments have a say about people wanting to be in a union or not? The employees alone should be allowed that choice and that right of entry provisions are harmless to productivity. Nothing wrong with recruitment.

There is no evidence that being a union member means that you are automatically a member of the ALP. Was never offered to me or my colleagues. Nor any other union member I know...and I know plenty in the CFMEU for a start.

 

[Gus Poyet]

The fact is there are more criminals in big business than in the union movement.

Let's start with tax avoidance.

Let's.

The trade industry is one of the biggest black market industries going around. Tax avoidence and homer jobs are and always will be rife.

 

[samFFC]

I would suggest that has more to do with age of voters rather than the party they support.

ie there is a reason why both lib and lab are still anti gay marriage (its called baby boomers and older)

Labor policy is to support same sex marriage.

But yes I do agree with your broad point. And Coalition voters are older, hence they are often more slow to change.

 

[samFFC]

There's more to it than simply saying they are slower to embrace it.

Look at gender. The statistics showed on that graph that the conservative side of politics is more likely to be married by a fair margin than the labor side. Perhaps married women are less interested or willing to go into politics. It's far less of a commitment for a single, childless person to take on politics than someone who is married with kids. Thus far less conservative women are interested in being a politician.

.

Perhaps. But as I have said here and elsewhere, the numbers are not borne out in the end figures. For the ones that do decide to enter politics, there is a low number of conversion to high level positions. Perhaps that will change, but putting some pressure on them wouldn't hurt.

There's more to it than simply saying they are slower to embrace it.

Sexual Orientation. How many of these other orientations are actually conservatives? I'd suggest a very small number. Less still those who might consider being a politician.

.

Given that it is a generally accepted fact that sexual orientation is simply a part of biology, and is by no means a choice, then I would say the proportions would be comparable to the wider population. It is simply due to the warped nature of contemporary politics that gay individuals would feel a need to identify themselves with one side of politics. In a similar way that previously, European and non-European migrants might have aligned with Labor in Australia; Mexican immigrants aligning with the Democrats in the US etc..

 

[samFFC]

I was saying the argument to the alp was a challenge to them to prove their progressiveness, which you just elaborated on, international reputation etc.

Wheres the core arguments ?

There is a more core argument than "it is the right thing to do"?. or "it seeks to legally recognise equality between Australians, within our modern, liberal democracy"?

 

[AM]

Except the whole history of Union violence, thugery, intimidation and blackmail.

Takes two to tango. Ask the people in a government organisation known as Industrial Relations Co-ordination in Victoria who were front and centre during the BLF days. They'll tell you the thuggery was just as evident from the Master Builders.

And what an honorable man Grollo is. The man who won't permit his staff to participate in the enquiry into the brick wall that collapsed on the boundary of a Grocon development killing three people. Charming!

And what caring organisation Grocon generally is when it comes to building safety.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/property/grocon-had-little-regard-for-safety-20130505-2j1cy.html

 

[Maggie5]

The fact is there are more criminals in big business than in the union movement.

Let's start with tax avoidance. All of those shelf schemes and hiding money in tax havens. Really should see Murdoch or Packer doing 20 years for avoiding tax in the way each have done.

Then there's the amount of crimes committed by business in construction projects. How many deaths and injuries have occurred in the workplace because the blokes in the suits just haven't given a s**t about the people working at the coal-face? Thousands. Really every workplace death should be at the level of a manslaughter charge.

Then there's the freedom of association. Why should employers and Governments have a say about people wanting to be in a union or not? The employees alone should be allowed that choice and that right of entry provisions are harmless to productivity. Nothing wrong with recruitment.

There is no evidence that being a union member means that you are automatically a member of the ALP. Was never offered to me or my colleagues. Nor any other union member I know...and I know plenty in the CFMEU for a start.

So agree, I had the misfortune to work for a couple of companies that should have stopped operating months before they were declared bankrupt. I left before they did as I refused to lie to creditors and employees. Although business was going downhill their lifestyle didn't change and money was squirrelled away. Bunch of crooks, so many people affected, then they just re-start up again.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Look at gender. The statistics showed on that graph that the conservative side of politics is more likely to be married by a fair margin than the labor side.

...So we're all just ignoring the BS that Gus has been saying on diversity et al, right? He also appears to be so one-eyed that he thought that graph must've been Labor versus Liberal (see above comment).

Thanks to Labor ,Greens and Trade Union thuggery the young people of Australia have lost the ability to start their own business and earn a good living. With manufacturing gone our youth have been reduced to third world employment status. History will show the greatest creators of poverty were the Trade Unions of Australia and the Prime Ministers of the Labor Green governments.

Dear Troll, Can you remind me why I ever may have thought it was worthwhile reading your posts?