Autopsy Cats lose to Blues by 8 points.
- Thread starter dazbroncos
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
standupand
Club Legend
Just on the newcomers Bruhn and Bowes. There were two huge moments in that last quarter where each of them had an opportunity to help pull off an unlikely victory.
Unfortunately both players made critical kicking errors under the pressure of the moment.
Had those kicks been different we might be thinking of them a lot differently right now. But as it stands, I'm going to say that it looks unlikely to me that either will be in our best team when it matters.
Unfortunately both players made critical kicking errors under the pressure of the moment.
Had those kicks been different we might be thinking of them a lot differently right now. But as it stands, I'm going to say that it looks unlikely to me that either will be in our best team when it matters.
It seems like 3/4 people here are gonna take the concerned but measured approach until we reach round 6ish at a minimum. Probably 3-3 or 4-2 in all likelihood with a stack of KP games remaining, fitness building and the injury list less destructive.
1/4 will lose their heads and make all manner of grandiose declarations about players, coaches and the water boys.
Yes last night was disappointing because Carlton are decent but not world beaters, and when we played with intent we got glimpses of that. It's a game we still should've been able to win by applying that intensity for maybe 20 more minutes.
Some early adversity and a kick up the backside isn't the end of the world if it draws a response. Premiers aren't made at this stage. Winning the next two is important. At round 6 we reassess but I'd be surprised if we are too far behind the pack at that stage.
1/4 will lose their heads and make all manner of grandiose declarations about players, coaches and the water boys.
Yes last night was disappointing because Carlton are decent but not world beaters, and when we played with intent we got glimpses of that. It's a game we still should've been able to win by applying that intensity for maybe 20 more minutes.
Some early adversity and a kick up the backside isn't the end of the world if it draws a response. Premiers aren't made at this stage. Winning the next two is important. At round 6 we reassess but I'd be surprised if we are too far behind the pack at that stage.
cats_09
Otters United
- Jun 21, 2011
- 56,598
- 114,320
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Moderator
- #357
Maybe some felt sorry for us last year after the job Melbourne did on us in the 21 prelim
We didn't seem to get that same sympathy in 21 though after the 2020 GF loss
It also depends on the team the fans are from - plenty of teams we have no issues with, and their fans are respectful when posting & chatting here... Then there's some where they don't seem to understand the meaning of respect, and it's not like their teams have actually achieved much of late
- Sep 26, 2017
- 26,755
- 44,079
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Happens everytime we lose which hasn’t been a hell of a lot over the last few years
Brisbane a chance to be 0-2 after tonight as well. Either them or Melbourne will obviously lose tonight. Dogs play Saints and could easily be 0-2. Collingwood and Port play each other.
Your point is spot on and we really just need to make sure we're not far from the lead pack at the top end of the ladder around round 6-7.
- Nov 7, 2010
- 26,894
- 35,628
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- WADA
Absolute rubbish Sav had Curnow kick 3 on him in the first half before going to McKay just before 1/2 time and giving up a goal to him too Curnow's goals in the second half were against Cameron rolling back through the center and another on Sav.
Really?
Bowes was playing his first game for the club and I'd have him in our top 6 or 7 players last night. While half the team was spudding up the first quarter, he was a shining beacon of kicks that actually hit their target. I would've loved to have seen him kick that goal, but he overall he played a great game.
Bruhn was down from last week, and that kick that missed the target also wasn't great. But again - he's 20 and playing his second game for a club and failed one clutch moment. That's a weak reason to write him off.
Speaking of failing clutch moments...
Did you happen to notice how many of Guthrie's possessions in the last quarter went straight to the opposition or disadvantaged our players?
Or what about Cameron - our best player by a long way - when he belted the ball inside F50 to Close... surrounded by 4 Blues?
If we judged people by a single mistake in the heat of the contest, we wouldn't have 22 on the field next week. We'd have none.
(P.S. Is this over the top? Maybe - but I'm kinda pissed off about the snap write-offs of these guys and Esava when there's way bigger team-wide problems to deal with.)
EDIT: added "last night" to Bowes' comment, though if he keeps up that kind of performance he'll be in our top 6-7 players if the others don't lift their game.
All good on those numbers. I absolutely accept that you don't have to start 5-0 to have a really good season. But I think the enormity of what we did from 5-4 last season is being forgotten. A 16-game winning streak (13 straight in the H&A) is a monumental achievement in modern football. The prospect of us doing that again (no matter how well we might be playing at the time) is incredibly low. So just getting back to that sort of position after nine games isn't necessarily going to see us likely to have a negotiable path back into the top four before season's end. And, no matter how imposing we might eventually become this year, I don't like our chances of winning from outside that bracket.
It's why the Suns game is now so massive. You can see both teams being 0-2, everyone then on their backs about yet another wasted season, and them consequently actually coming out and giving a yelp. Given how porous our mids look, we could get on the wrong side of it against them and truly propel our season into the 'danger zone' (no, not in a good way) after next weekend.
I get that there's two divergent narratives here. The tale of 'Henny Penny', or the 'Don't be ridiculous - we will belt them' rejoinder. Just hope the club respects the moment, the opposition, and the opportunity enough to commit everything to next week's game. Without a win there, even finals itself starts to look like a challenging prospect.
And I totally agree about the 'slow and sore' sense of things. If that doesn't change in a hurry, neither will our fortunes in the W-L column.
Geez Parfitt might have a low ceiling and we want to develop other guys but he would add some defensive balance to the midfield. Good tackler and my mind goes back to the Doggies game at Docklands last year - they were streaming up the ground very similarly to what Carlton (and Pies) were doing; Parfitt was huge in arresting it that night.
Absolutely agree, based on Parf's output over the course of his career. But his game in Round 1 really had to be seen to be believed. Or, more correctly, not seen, given how utterly anonymous he was in that match.
He would want to go big on possessions and tackles in the VFL to warrant selection for the seniors again at this point. Because a recall based on reputation alone doesn't seem like the most trustworthy path to pursue with him right now.
Yeah that's fair - he wasn't great against the pies. Not alone though
- Dec 11, 2009
- 29,771
- 36,970
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Don't panic!!
I spoke with Victoria Police today, and lodged an official Missing Persons notice with them.
They are now officially investigating the disappearance of our midfield group, who haven't been sighted since the 2022 Grand Final.
Hope remains they'll be found alive and well, as early investigations show bank credits have been used, and Telstra records show some have been phoning in.
Updates to follow......
Blues were a 4-5 goal better side on the night and I think the margin flattered us in the end. While some strong individual efforts and an overall lift helped us get back into the game during the last quarter, Carlton being Carlton and attempting one of their choke jobs meant that the scoreline papered over some cracks.
Although I'm not totally sure about his spot once Stewart, Kolo and Henry all return, Ratugolea down back is worth persisting with for now despite some of the hysteria from our supporters. He ain't playing forward again as Cameron and Ollie Henry now fill that extra tall role (with Neale as depth/backup), and we don't have any other suitable options to slot into our D50 at present. Yes, there's still the occasional brain fade, but early signs point towards him being much more able to grow into this role than everything else we've tried in the past. Can force a contest, reads the flight of the ball well and is getting better at guiding the ball to the right spots - it's just about developing his decision-making and use by foot (nothing that can't be worked on further).
We came up against a solid defensive unit last night, but I can't help but feel that our F50 structure looks more unsettled than usual. With the exception of Hawkins and Cameron, we often fell into the trap of allowing Carlton's defenders to drag our forwards up the ground, resulting in easy intercept marks for the likes of Saad and McGovern. It was an issue in the second half against Collingwood too IMO. Having said that, the high bombing from our mids certainly didn't help and probably contributed to the lack of synergy between the two. Unusually quiet games from Close and Stengle also afforded Carlton's defenders more freedom than I would've liked, though Atkins was very good with his pressure on their ball carriers.
Although I'm not totally sure about his spot once Stewart, Kolo and Henry all return, Ratugolea down back is worth persisting with for now despite some of the hysteria from our supporters. He ain't playing forward again as Cameron and Ollie Henry now fill that extra tall role (with Neale as depth/backup), and we don't have any other suitable options to slot into our D50 at present. Yes, there's still the occasional brain fade, but early signs point towards him being much more able to grow into this role than everything else we've tried in the past. Can force a contest, reads the flight of the ball well and is getting better at guiding the ball to the right spots - it's just about developing his decision-making and use by foot (nothing that can't be worked on further).
We came up against a solid defensive unit last night, but I can't help but feel that our F50 structure looks more unsettled than usual. With the exception of Hawkins and Cameron, we often fell into the trap of allowing Carlton's defenders to drag our forwards up the ground, resulting in easy intercept marks for the likes of Saad and McGovern. It was an issue in the second half against Collingwood too IMO. Having said that, the high bombing from our mids certainly didn't help and probably contributed to the lack of synergy between the two. Unusually quiet games from Close and Stengle also afforded Carlton's defenders more freedom than I would've liked, though Atkins was very good with his pressure on their ball carriers.
Not sure this kinda thing is exclusive to BigFooty - just look at the single-celled organisms you find amongst the comments sections on Facebook, Instagram and News Limited sites. Even the Bulldogs copped it after their 2016 flag despite being fairly inoffensive winners.
standupand
Club Legend
So many had down games, didn't they.
But I guess there's always a bit of extra interest in the new recruits and where they sit in the scheme of things, especially since we're a side that's going (I hope) to have a lot of competition for spots at some point.
My point was that they could have really made a huge impression if those moments had gone differently - and especially if it had led to us getting over the line.
I was thinking back to Rohan in that QF. Last night's game was a similar sort of game in that a lot of our core senior players were down except Cameron who was doing what he liked, and at the end of a difficult night there were some chances for some fringe players to step up in the moment and win us the game.
I'm sure Bruhn and Bowes will get other chances. It's just my impression right now that they seem more depth than a critical piece of the puzzle in 2023. I didn't mean purely because of those moments.
Last year when CS was doing a selling job on us through the dark times I always felt a degree of confidence. Partly because he exuded confidence. And it made sense as the altered game style was going to take a settling-in period. I felt after watching his post-match presser last night he wasn't exuding the same level of confidence. Part of that is injuries, connection issues, and the comp is more focused on us and better. The other part perhaps being internally they think the prospects aren't as rosy. Just a feeling.
Anyhoo, following is a piece written by Cherny.
What to make of Geelong’s 0-2 start: ‘We expected it not to go smoothly straight away’
The reigning premiers find themselves behind the eight-ball early in the season. The Cats say this was always somewhat likely, DANIEL CHERNY reports.
Daniel Cherny
For Geelong, March tends to be a month about which not to get overly concerned.
Even after becoming the first reigning premier in 14 years to begin its premiership defence with consecutive losses, there seemed to be no overriding sense of panic from the Cats on Thursday night.
Having added three players from other clubs into their 22, lost Joel Selwood to retirement and been hit reasonably hard by injuries in recent weeks, Geelong, at least after the fact, seems to be in unison that this was always somewhat likely and that the start of 2023 was never going to be straightforward.
“It’s been a bit of a challenge. We expected it not to go smoothly straight away,” said premiership defender Jed Bews, after the Cats’ late surge was not enough to stop an eight-point defeat to Carlton at the MCG.
They were sentiments echoed by eternally articulate coach Chris Scott.
“We always knew that it was going to be a hard year. We’d be saying exactly the same thing if he had have won two close games,” Scott said.
In isolation Ollie Henry, Tanner Bruhn and Jack Bowes have all shown positive signs across their early contributions for the Cats.
So too has the redeployed Esava Ratugolea, needing to hold down the fort in an undermanned Cats backline.
And yet things have not clicked often enough for the Geelong collective to yet notch four premiership points. Its midfield has been beaten two weeks in a row, while a stretched backline has been significantly tested. There are absences, but the Cats still went in with 17 of last year’s premiership side against the Blues.
How much cause should it be for serious alarm?
On one hand, the Cats have been relatively slow starters in recent years, with their ageing core tending to be nursed into the season. Geelong was 1-2 in 2020 (made the grand final), 2-2 in 2021 (lost a preliminary final) and 3-2 last season (won the premiership).
With games against Gold Coast, Hawthorn and West Coast to come, there is every chance the Cats could recover to be 3-2 by the time their GMHBA Stadium fortress again opens its doors for the masses.
On the other hand, the Hawks of 2009 – the last 0-2 reigning premiers – missed the finals.
It is something of a cliche to pre-empt the eventual falling off the perch of the Cats, but at some point gravity has to do its thing, and maybe just maybe this is the year.
Clearly Scott is not too perturbed and given Tom Stewart, Mitch Duncan and Jake Kolodjashnij are all due back at various stages next month, there is considerable cause to suggest things should get better before they get much worse.
Perhaps given those absences, compounded by a longer-term injury to Jack Henry and Sam De Koning clearly not firing on all cylinders, it has all been a bit too much to cope with; even for a side as talented as Geelong, an outfit that crushed its opponents in the preliminary and grand final last year, the 15th and 16th consecutive wins of a golden streak.
Of the addition of the newcomers, Bews accepted things had not been completely smooth-sailing.
“Ideally they’d slot straight in and everything works perfect but that’s never really the case,” Bews said.
“We’ve got to get used to playing with them, they’ve got to get used to playing our system, and hopefully we stop getting injuries and those little things. It can be a bit challenging, but we’ve got to get better at that.”
But that the Cats fought back from an almost five-goal deficit deep into the third quarter to be threatening in the match’s dying minutes meant there was plenty to like.
“There was actually a lot of good things. The way we finished, ideally we play like that for longer and don’t leave it so late,” Bews said.
“The way we finished off is really positive and it shows that our best footy is more than good enough. It’s just a bit frustrating that it all happened a bit late.”
Bews added that the Cats’ ability to generate momentum in recent years after sluggish starts gave them confidence, rejecting any suggestion that the side’s hunger had waned having achieved the ultimate success last year.
“I can’t question that at all. I definitely want to do exactly what we did last year and go right to the end. Not that I can see right now.
“Ideally you’re two and zip but 0-2, we know, we showed in that last bit our best is good enough and we’re not that far off. There’s just a few little things we’ve got to tweak a bit.”
De Koning, who burst onto the scene last year, has had a tough start to the season, dealing with a knee issue in round one and a head knock on Thursday night.
Bews quipped that it was all a good learning experience for the emerging backman.
“It’s probably good for him in a way. It’ll build a little bit of resilience for him, he’ll just be better for it.”
Anyhoo, following is a piece written by Cherny.
What to make of Geelong’s 0-2 start: ‘We expected it not to go smoothly straight away’
The reigning premiers find themselves behind the eight-ball early in the season. The Cats say this was always somewhat likely, DANIEL CHERNY reports.
Daniel Cherny
For Geelong, March tends to be a month about which not to get overly concerned.
Even after becoming the first reigning premier in 14 years to begin its premiership defence with consecutive losses, there seemed to be no overriding sense of panic from the Cats on Thursday night.
Having added three players from other clubs into their 22, lost Joel Selwood to retirement and been hit reasonably hard by injuries in recent weeks, Geelong, at least after the fact, seems to be in unison that this was always somewhat likely and that the start of 2023 was never going to be straightforward.
“It’s been a bit of a challenge. We expected it not to go smoothly straight away,” said premiership defender Jed Bews, after the Cats’ late surge was not enough to stop an eight-point defeat to Carlton at the MCG.
They were sentiments echoed by eternally articulate coach Chris Scott.
“We always knew that it was going to be a hard year. We’d be saying exactly the same thing if he had have won two close games,” Scott said.
In isolation Ollie Henry, Tanner Bruhn and Jack Bowes have all shown positive signs across their early contributions for the Cats.
So too has the redeployed Esava Ratugolea, needing to hold down the fort in an undermanned Cats backline.
And yet things have not clicked often enough for the Geelong collective to yet notch four premiership points. Its midfield has been beaten two weeks in a row, while a stretched backline has been significantly tested. There are absences, but the Cats still went in with 17 of last year’s premiership side against the Blues.
How much cause should it be for serious alarm?
On one hand, the Cats have been relatively slow starters in recent years, with their ageing core tending to be nursed into the season. Geelong was 1-2 in 2020 (made the grand final), 2-2 in 2021 (lost a preliminary final) and 3-2 last season (won the premiership).
With games against Gold Coast, Hawthorn and West Coast to come, there is every chance the Cats could recover to be 3-2 by the time their GMHBA Stadium fortress again opens its doors for the masses.
On the other hand, the Hawks of 2009 – the last 0-2 reigning premiers – missed the finals.
It is something of a cliche to pre-empt the eventual falling off the perch of the Cats, but at some point gravity has to do its thing, and maybe just maybe this is the year.
Clearly Scott is not too perturbed and given Tom Stewart, Mitch Duncan and Jake Kolodjashnij are all due back at various stages next month, there is considerable cause to suggest things should get better before they get much worse.
Perhaps given those absences, compounded by a longer-term injury to Jack Henry and Sam De Koning clearly not firing on all cylinders, it has all been a bit too much to cope with; even for a side as talented as Geelong, an outfit that crushed its opponents in the preliminary and grand final last year, the 15th and 16th consecutive wins of a golden streak.
Of the addition of the newcomers, Bews accepted things had not been completely smooth-sailing.
“Ideally they’d slot straight in and everything works perfect but that’s never really the case,” Bews said.
“We’ve got to get used to playing with them, they’ve got to get used to playing our system, and hopefully we stop getting injuries and those little things. It can be a bit challenging, but we’ve got to get better at that.”
But that the Cats fought back from an almost five-goal deficit deep into the third quarter to be threatening in the match’s dying minutes meant there was plenty to like.
“There was actually a lot of good things. The way we finished, ideally we play like that for longer and don’t leave it so late,” Bews said.
“The way we finished off is really positive and it shows that our best footy is more than good enough. It’s just a bit frustrating that it all happened a bit late.”
Bews added that the Cats’ ability to generate momentum in recent years after sluggish starts gave them confidence, rejecting any suggestion that the side’s hunger had waned having achieved the ultimate success last year.
“I can’t question that at all. I definitely want to do exactly what we did last year and go right to the end. Not that I can see right now.
“Ideally you’re two and zip but 0-2, we know, we showed in that last bit our best is good enough and we’re not that far off. There’s just a few little things we’ve got to tweak a bit.”
De Koning, who burst onto the scene last year, has had a tough start to the season, dealing with a knee issue in round one and a head knock on Thursday night.
Bews quipped that it was all a good learning experience for the emerging backman.
“It’s probably good for him in a way. It’ll build a little bit of resilience for him, he’ll just be better for it.”
I don’t know or understand what happened to the Suns last week but people are massively underrating them around here.
Towards the end of last year they were everyone’s big tip to finally make the 8. They always drop off at the back end of the year but are pretty good early.
However over the pre season absolutely no one had them in the 8 so what changed?
The conditions on the GC early on are like no other, it’s humid, dewy, hard to keep your feet and they play well. They beat Carlton who were hot early, ran Melbourne close and although it was the SCG they beat Sydney.
They are/have been for a while a good side early on but especially at home. This year they get Ben King back.
Not sure what’s happened to them in the last 6 months but yeah I hope they have issues.
Towards the end of last year they were everyone’s big tip to finally make the 8. They always drop off at the back end of the year but are pretty good early.
However over the pre season absolutely no one had them in the 8 so what changed?
The conditions on the GC early on are like no other, it’s humid, dewy, hard to keep your feet and they play well. They beat Carlton who were hot early, ran Melbourne close and although it was the SCG they beat Sydney.
They are/have been for a while a good side early on but especially at home. This year they get Ben King back.
Not sure what’s happened to them in the last 6 months but yeah I hope they have issues.
- Nov 7, 2010
- 26,894
- 35,628
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- WADA
If Ollie stays fit and forward he'll kick 50 this year.
The Bowes moment was bizarre. Having been really rather good for most of the night, that was an utterly shambolic shot on goal. Could definitely see the prospect of us winning the game if he'd kicked that. And I felt it did just about as much to calm their sense of 'losing control' as it did to stifle our momentum. Felt sorry for him, as he was clearly one of our better contributors on the night.
With the Bruhn one, I'm maybe wildly generous in cutting him some slack with that missed target. He'd just won the ball in a fierce contest, which included a head clash as he took possession. I wonder whether he was somewhat dazed as he spun out of the congestion and looked to find a player inside F50. Yes, it could have simply been a bad skill error under fatigue. But the blood streaming from his opponent's face seemed to indicate that the contact was a little more than incidental.
Overall, then, I'm firmly in the camp that's OK with how the likes of Bowes, Henry and Bruhn are going thus far. They're not shooting the lights out, that's for sure. But for players just joining our system (and, in a couple of cases, only two seasons into their careers), I still have high hopes for their long-term prospects as quality senior players in the hoops.
I think 4 new players (the recruits plus Esava) is too much to introduce at one time to a very highly skilled and drilled side. Would expect that to reduce in the coming games unless they get with the program real fast.
- Status
