Census will allow Australians to identify as 'other' for both sex and gender

[Red Black and Blue]

Male or female psychiatric hospital?

There have been a number of cases of male-to-female transgender criminals in the UK being locked up in male prisons (see the Guardian link I posted). Some of whom have been quite violent. They committed suicide, and the push has been to allow them to stay in female only prisons. But how is that fair on the female population of those prisons?

Or is it that all transgender criminals are mental health cases? If so, why can't we say that about the broader transgender people in society?

The only argument against saying so is that in the medical profession once saw homosexuality as a mental disorder that was curable. But by equating the two as alike you are only engaging in false equivalence.

There were a fair few mixed psych wards back in the day, not sure if any still exist, though in cases like this you could use the gender side of things to help regulate the subjects behavior. Start off in the female ward and any hint of violent behavior make the switch.

It would be an easier call if the subject was undergoing treatment, as after a while the attributes determined by testosterone (muscle mass, bone density) do diminish.

I think we are too early into understanding transgender issues to make a definitive call on whether or not transgender is entirely mental health related.

For instance: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

We are all aware of intersex people along with heaps of other potential birth defects, is it that much of a reach to imagine some under the surface genetic misfires during utero?

 

[1061]

Is transgenderism a choice?

I think the choice is seeking to deal with it once diagnosed.

Is Autism a choice?

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

I like how CM86 is happy to use false equivalencies when it suits (homosexuals) but not when it doesn't (paedophiles)

Also, change the topic in that article from trans-gender to homosexual... and you can find similar articles.

Oh, there it is. Bringing paedophilia into the conversation.

Paedophilia and beastiality.

 

[CM86]

I like how CM86 is happy to use false equivalencies when it suits (homosexuals) but not when it doesn't (paedophiles)

Going to quote GS, because he put it beautifully.

You can't legally have sex with a child. Even if the child agrees to. Want to know why? There's a 'power' dynamic at play, for one. A child can be talked into almost anything by a manipulative adult. A child's reasoning cannot hope to match that of an adult.

There's the physical aspect. Without going into too much detail a child's body is in no way ready to accommodate an adult. Damage, REAL physical damage will occur.

The psychological aspect - the most damaging one of all. Sex changes your way of thinking and how you relate to others around you. Exposure to sex before exposure to puberty introduces a flurry of things to a child's mind that they cannot be expected to cope with. Thoughts. Feelings. Trust. The child can never see adults in the same light again. The child's relationships with other children is destroyed too.

I could go on but for f*ck's sake meds, you SHOULDN'T have to have this stuff spelled out for you as to why paedophilia isn't even in the same universe of sexual contact as those other forms you seek to connect it with.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Hows this for a hypocrite, she has "special" needs kids kids but wants others denied.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...tory/0b44bfe1ab5be79592261672051b5c60?login=1

How is she being hypocritical? I agree with her, it is ridiculous to say one persons rights (a boy who thinks he's a girl) to use the toilets of the opposite sex outweighs the rights of the rest of the school to use the toilets specifically designed for them.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I suppose there's nothing stopping a male concealing himself in a closed stall to ambush an unwary woman either though, unfortunately.

What if the girls are uncomfortable having a boy in their toilet/bathroom/dressing room even if that boy says he is really a girl? Why do their rights get superceded by the minority rights?

Usually I'm on the side of minorities and people who are oppressed but I think this is ridiculous. You are imposing something on school kids who frankly shouldn't have to deal with this crap. It just seems like people needing to create problems for themselves to have a raison d'etre.

For what its worth I don't care one way or another what or how these people identify. My belief is you can;t change your biological sex/gender and a man having an operation to become a woman is not a woman - they are just a mutilated man. However I also believe that people are free to live their lives however they want if it makes them happy so long as their freedom does not impose on the freedom of others. In this case, their freedom to use the opposite genders bathrooms is countered by the other students freedom to use their own bathrooms without having to worry about having someone from the opposite gender in there.

I know how I would react to this and what I would tell my kids if I were one of the students parents.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Bollocks. Why isn't every bloke and their dog arguing to legalise polygamy on the marriage "equality" thread then? The same holds for IR, why cant two consenting adults sign a contract without government interference?

Its the usual SJW hypocrisy.

You look into a mirror lately? What about your own hypocrisy? It's OK for two consenting adults to sign a contract without government interference but if two consenting adults want to get married or one adult wants to make changes to their own body it's akin to paedophilia?

It's the usual rabid right hypocrisy.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Christ there's some ******* whiners in this thread.

 

[1061]

How is she being hypocritical? I agree with her, it is ridiculous to say one persons rights (a boy who thinks he's a girl) to use the toilets of the opposite sex outweighs the rights of the rest of the school to use the toilets specifically designed for them.

She wants and has every right to expect the school to accommodate her special needs kids but refuses to acknowledge the rights of trans kids. That is now she is being a hypercrite.

Although after reading your next post quoted below I see it's not worth my time trying to discuss this with you. I normally accept the rights of bigots to be bigots so I'll give you the rope you need to hang yourself.

What if the girls are uncomfortable having a boy in their toilet/bathroom/dressing room even if that boy says he is really a girl? Why do their rights get superceded by the minority rights?

Usually I'm on the side of minorities and people who are oppressed but I think this is ridiculous. You are imposing something on school kids who frankly shouldn't have to deal with this crap. It just seems like people needing to create problems for themselves to have a raison d'etre.

For what its worth I don't care one way or another what or how these people identify. My belief is you can;t change your biological sex/gender and a man having an operation to become a woman is not a woman - they are just a mutilated man. However I also believe that people are free to live their lives however they want if it makes them happy so long as their freedom does not impose on the freedom of others. In this case, their freedom to use the opposite genders bathrooms is countered by the other students freedom to use their own bathrooms without having to worry about having someone from the opposite gender in there.

I know how I would react to this and what I would tell my kids if I were one of the students parents.

What an amazingly dumb post.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

What if the girls are uncomfortable having a boy in their toilet/bathroom/dressing room even if that boy says he is really a girl? Why do their rights get superceded by the minority rights?

I suppose the IDEAL solution is each lockable stall is big enough for both a toilet and a washbasin. Each individual can then use away, wash up afterwards then unlock and leave.

Everybody's happy.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

She wants and has every right to expect the school to accommodate her special needs kids but refuses to acknowledge the rights of trans kids. That is now she is being a hypercrite.

The rights of trans kids supercede the rights of other kids? Her special needs kids being accommodated doesn't impact on anyone else. Telling everyone else they need to let a boy into the girls changeroom/toilet does impact on others. You can't see the difference here?

Although after reading your next post quoted below I see it's not worth my time trying to discuss this with you. I normally accept the rights of bigots to be bigots so I'll give you the rope you need to hang yourself.

What an amazingly dumb post.

I'm not being a bigot at all, I clearly stated I don't care what people do in their personal lives, whatever makes you happy go for it as long as it doesn't impact on other peoples ability to exercise their own rights/freedoms.

Just because I don't care what people do in their own lives doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on whether a person can change their biological make up.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I suppose the IDEAL solution is each lockable stall is big enough for both a toilet and a washbasin. Each individual can then use away, wash up afterwards then unlock and leave.

Everybody's happy.

If that were the case then why would the trans kid even be bothered by having to use the male or female block of toilets? Why would there even need to be separate male/female blocks? Just go all Starship Troopers and have everyone shower and change together

 

[kfc1]

The concept of segregating bathrooms based on "gender" is an anachronism

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

If that were the case then why would the trans kid even be bothered by having to use the male or female block of toilets? Why would there even need to be separate male/female blocks? Just go all Starship Troopers and have everyone shower and change together

Everyone would have their own privacy. Lockable stalls with a washbasin solves privacy issues. If, as you say, it's unfair for transgender folk to impose on natural-born genders in the bathroom (an issue that is valid from a certain point of view) then you can still show equality for all by having privacy for all without the kerfuffle. No male bathrooms. No female ones. None designated 'other'.

It wouldn't bother me personally going the Starship Troopers route either, as it goes. Boners might be awkward in the showers until everyone's desensitised to the situation though

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Everyone would have their own privacy. Lockable stalls with a washbasin solves privacy issues. If, as you say, it's unfair for transgender folk to impose on natural-born genders in the bathroom (an issue that is valid from a certain point of view) then you can still show equality for all by having privacy for all without the kerfuffle. No male bathrooms. No female ones. None designated 'other'.

It wouldn't bother me personally going the Starship Troopers route either, as it goes. Boners might be awkward in the showers until everyone's desensitised to the situation though

Yeah it would be a lot easier and probably more efficient to do away with gendered bathrooms altogether with a limited number of private areas like we have for the disabled ect.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Everyone would have their own privacy. Lockable stalls with a washbasin solves privacy issues. If, as you say, it's unfair for transgender folk to impose on natural-born genders in the bathroom (an issue that is valid from a certain point of view) then you can still show equality for all by having privacy for all without the kerfuffle. No male bathrooms. No female ones. None designated 'other'.

Individual stalls are very inefficient compared to urinals. It works for low volume use like a quiet service station or a cafe. But imagine at the footy at half time. Hundreds of blokes queueing up for 6 traps instead of lining up on a wall that fits 15 or 20 at a time.

It wouldn't bother me personally going the Starship Troopers route either, as it goes. Boners might be awkward in the showers until everyone's desensitised to the situation though

I think you will find it is females who would object most to shared toilets and changing rooms. Why do you remember the shower scene from Starship Troopers? Because you were perving on the chicks!

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Individual stalls are very inefficient compared to urinals. It works for low volume use like a quiet service station or a cafe. But imagine at the footy at half time. Hundreds of blokes queueing up for 6 traps instead of lining up on a wall that fits 15 or 20 at a time.

Yeah, obviously you'd have to look at what's efficient at sporting venues.

I think you will find it is females who would object most to shared toilets and changing rooms. Why do you remember the shower scene from Starship Troopers? Because you were perving on the chicks!

Definitely guilty as charged

 

[skipper kelly]

Who is asking to be called a chicken?

What is it with certain people, that they always want to connect it animals?


Homosexuals want to marry? What next, we can marry a chicken?

Always an animal fetish...

Nice derail.

 

[1061]

The rights of trans kids supercede the rights of other kids? Her special needs kids being accommodated doesn't impact on anyone else. Telling everyone else they need to let a boy into the girls changeroom/toilet does impact on others. You can't see the difference here?

One or both of her special needs kids would have required one on one help at some point. That would have cost extra for another educator. That money has to have come from somewhere.

I'm not being a bigot at all, I clearly stated I don't care what people do in their personal lives, whatever makes you happy go for it as long as it doesn't impact on other peoples ability to exercise their own rights/freedoms.

Just because I don't care what people do in their own lives doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on whether a person can change their biological make up.

Oh really?

For what its worth I don't care one way or another what or how these people identify. My belief is you can;t change your biological sex/gender and a man having an operation to become a woman is not a woman - they are just a mutilated man. However I also believe that people are free to live their lives however they want if it makes them happy so long as their freedom does not impose on the freedom of others. In this case, their freedom to use the opposite genders bathrooms is countered by the other students freedom to use their own bathrooms without having to worry about having someone from the opposite gender in there.

 

[Lach72]

One or both of her special needs kids would have required one on one help at some point. That would have cost extra for another educator. That money has to have come from somewhere.





Oh really?

Yes I did lol

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Nice derail.

PPssst, I fink he's trying to sound like a "conservative".

 

[kfc1]

One or both of her special needs kids would have required one on one help at some point. That would have cost extra for another educator. That money has to have come from somewhere.





Oh really?

The two posts you quoted arent contradictory, in fact they say pretty much the same thing. May want to re-read them.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Oh really?

You really need to tidy up your debating. He's claimed he's not a bigot, then you've quoted his opinion back at him without actually explaining why it supposedly makes him a bigot.

 

[CM86]

You really need to tidy up your debating. He's claimed he's not a bigot, then you've quoted his opinion back at him without actually explaining why it supposedly makes him a bigot.

look out, it's the posting etiquette police...

He bolded the part that could be construed as bigoted.

 

[coerced]

There were a fair few mixed psych wards back in the day, not sure if any still exist, though in cases like this you could use the gender side of things to help regulate the subjects behavior. Start off in the female ward and any hint of violent behavior make the switch.

It would be an easier call if the subject was undergoing treatment, as after a while the attributes determined by testosterone (muscle mass, bone density) do diminish.

Broadmoor is male only, only for the most aggressive psychiatric patients. Why would you put a violent male born criminal among women prisoners?

I think we are too early into understanding transgender issues to make a definitive call on whether or not transgender is entirely mental health related.

For instance: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

We are all aware of intersex people along with heaps of other potential birth defects, is it that much of a reach to imagine some under the surface genetic misfires during utero?

If brains are gendered then how is gender a social construct?