Roast Coaching discussion thread

[Topkent]

Yes, in all facets.

You really think that they improved this much since last year on the back of fitness?

 

[RandB]

You really think that they improved this much since last year on the back of fitness?

Not at all. I'm saying they are poles apart from us in every aspect of the game including fitness, conditioning and recovery and we saw it first hand during and after the Darwin game. We are still so very far behind in that area. I'm not sure why it's that hard for us to admit.

 

[Demon 16]

I have a bigger problem with the playing list than the coaching group.

We are crying out for another tall forward - we're already relying on Hogan, and he had just 7 disposals on Sunday. We're also 2 running/pacy midfielders short, and are desperate for better kickers from half back.

Roos can't grow those traits organically - we'll need to trade or draft for that. The key forward/ruck is the hardest area for us to fix.

The weekend was a bad loss, no doubt, but I dont think we're as far away from turning the corner as it might feel.

 

[Crusty Demon]

I have a bigger problem with the playing list than the coaching group.

We are crying out for another tall forward - we're already relying on Hogan, and he had just 7 disposals on Sunday. We're also 2 running/pacy midfielders short, and are desperate for better kickers from half back.

Roos can't grow those traits organically - we'll need to trade or draft for that. The key forward/ruck is the hardest area for us to fix.

The weekend was a bad loss, no doubt, but I dont think we're as far away from turning the corner as it might feel.

?? You contradicted yourself. You say that we are crying out for another tall forward. We need 2 more pacy midfielders and also better kicks from halfback. Yet you say we aren't far away from turning the corner? It will take another 2-3 seasons to bring in and develop the players you are saying we need. I'm not disagreeing with you in regards to what we need, I just can't see us turning things around and being finals contenders for many more seasons.

 

[Topkent]

Petracca and Kent will add pace to the midfield, and maybe Trenners and Salem will be good kicks from the back line

The tall forward thing is an issue but Frost might be the guy who we are looking at for that

 

[deeco]

?? You contradicted yourself. You say that we are crying out for another tall forward. We need 2 more pacy midfielders and also better kicks from halfback. Yet you say we aren't far away from turning the corner? It will take another 2-3 seasons to bring in and develop the players you are saying we need. I'm not disagreeing with you in regards to what we need, I just can't see us turning things around and being finals contenders for many more seasons.

Yeah, sadly heard McCartney say we'll need 2-3 great drafts earlier in the year. Poor that even the coaches have conceded we're going nowhere for ANOTHER 2-3 years.

 

[schmuttt]

If the club is in this position in 2 years time I won't be the only one walking away.

 

[Demon 16]

?? You contradicted yourself. You say that we are crying out for another tall forward. We need 2 more pacy midfielders and also better kicks from halfback. Yet you say we aren't far away from turning the corner? It will take another 2-3 seasons to bring in and develop the players you are saying we need. I'm not disagreeing with you in regards to what we need, I just can't see us turning things around and being finals contenders for many more seasons.

Yeh that did sound contradictory, but I guess I was thinking that Salem will add some quality foot disposal and Darcy Parish(?) some run and carry. Kent adds pace and kicking ability in the forward half.

Petracca will be another very big addition, to our midfield quality, but I still feel like we need another good quality, hard running mid.

How to land a tall forward target to play with Hogan is the toughest part - but I'm sure we can work someone out of 2 more draft/trade periods.

In that time, I dont expect that we'll remain stagnate - I'm certain we'll move up the ladder. I just think we'll have the full puzzle from a playing list perspective, completed for 2 more years at least.

 

[schmuttt]

Yeh that did sound contradictory, but I guess I was thinking that Salem will add some quality foot disposal and Darcy Parish(?) some run and carry. Kent adds pace and kicking ability in the forward half.

Petracca will be another very big addition, to our midfield quality, but I still feel like we need another good quality, hard running mid.

How to land a tall forward target to play with Hogan is the toughest part - but I'm sure we can work someone out of 2 more draft/trade periods.

In that time, I dont expect that we'll remain stagnate - I'm certain we'll move up the ladder. I just think we'll have the full puzzle from a playing list perspective, completed for 2 more years at least.

Everything in your post is correct except Kent adding kicking ability, finishing on the run he is excellent but field kicking can be a bit iffy sometimes. We've been lacking run and carry in the midfield for years, honestly Davey playing on the HBF was the last time we had someone who could break the lines. That and a tall forward should be our aims, if I had to take one I'd take the midfielder now as although Hogan needs help the forwardline in general would look a hell of a lot better if we got quick clean ball use in there.

 

[Demon 16]

Everything in your post is correct except Kent adding kicking ability, finishing on the run he is excellent but field kicking can be a bit iffy sometimes. We've been lacking run and carry in the midfield for years, honestly Davey playing on the HBF was the last time we had someone who could break the lines. That and a tall forward should be our aims, if I had to take one I'd take the midfielder now as although Hogan needs help the forwardline in general would look a hell of a lot better if we got quick clean ball use in there.

Yeh fair call - I guess Kent adds more run and 'metres gained' than elite kicking - although he's not a bad shot at goals on the run.

If GC are interested in ditching Bennell and Dixon - I reckon we should be throwing something serious their way for a combo of the 2. It would address about 4 needs at once!

 

[Mad Prophet]

Did anyone watch Roos on AFL 360 last night? He was asked the question of whether or not he still had the motivation to coach the club as he did 18 months ago, and he basically avoided the question by talking about the past again.

I just find it interesting when you compare Roos to someone like Alan Richardson, who is always talking about the now and the current season and yet all we hear from Roos is how scarred we are from the previous regime (a regime that half the playing list didn't play under btw).

I'll keep backing Roos for the time being, but it's starting to wear thin.

 

[schmuttt]

Did anyone watch Roos on AFL 360 last night? He was asked the question of whether or not he still had the motivation to coach the club as he did 18 months ago, and he basically avoided the question by talking about the past again.

I just find it interesting when you compare Roos to someone like Alan Richardson, who is always talking about the now and the current season and yet all we hear from Roos is how scarred we are from the previous regime (a regime that half the playing list didn't play under btw).

I'll keep backing Roos for the time being, but it's starting to wear thin.

I didn't bother watching, but it wouldn't surprise me if he has realized how hard it is coaching a team like us.

 

[deeco]

I didn't bother watching, but it wouldn't surprise me if he has realized how hard it is coaching a team like us.

Considering he played in a team like ours, I'm sure he would have had a handle on it

 

[Klyntonius]

Considering he played in a team like ours, I'm sure he would have had a handle on it

So, you're saying we're opening up old wounds?!!

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Did anyone watch Roos on AFL 360 last night? He was asked the question of whether or not he still had the motivation to coach the club as he did 18 months ago, and he basically avoided the question by talking about the past again.

I just find it interesting when you compare Roos to someone like Alan Richardson, who is always talking about the now and the current season and yet all we hear from Roos is how scarred we are from the previous regime (a regime that half the playing list didn't play under btw).

I'll keep backing Roos for the time being, but it's starting to wear thin.

I don't think it really warranted a response mate.

 

[Toump Ass]

I've usually bounced back well after a loss but Sunday was pretty tough to swallow. Following the bye, we've been terrible; how we can fade out in the second half of the season two years in a row?

And what does it take to improve? We have the highest paid senior coach in the league and highly rated assistants in McCartney & Goodwin. Our trading has been excellent (on paper at least; Lumumba, Vince, and Tyson are fantastic when they play at half of their potential). Our drafting- for the most part- looks astute. We've got enough young talent to keep Bail, Mckenzie and Jones out of the side. But we're still s**t.
There's no reason why the Saints and Bulldogs should have leapfrogged us this year, but I expect Brisbane and Carlton will do the same the next.

Simply put, we deserve more.

 

[Topkent]

I don't think it really warranted a response mate.

Agreed, plus Roos is a master of diversion.
If he was anyone else there would be a mountain of pressure at Melbourne but he knows how to give answers without saying anything

I'm as guilty as the next person after the weekend but what he said was right, after we lost the whole club goes into melt down so it must be near impossible to keep morale up at the joint, the players would get a sense of it so it probably still affects them

 

[Demon 16]

Did anyone watch Roos on AFL 360 last night? He was asked the question of whether or not he still had the motivation to coach the club as he did 18 months ago, and he basically avoided the question by talking about the past again.

I just find it interesting when you compare Roos to someone like Alan Richardson, who is always talking about the now and the current season and yet all we hear from Roos is how scarred we are from the previous regime (a regime that half the playing list didn't play under btw).

I'll keep backing Roos for the time being, but it's starting to wear thin.

Watch it again - his response was basically 'Im not even going to answer that, dickhead'.

 

[Topkent]

Watch it again - his response was basically 'Im not even going to answer that, dickhead'.

Exactly what I thought, it was roos way of saying 'your ******* kidding mate'

 

[Demon 16]

Here's some food for thought. Consider the players on our list that would have got games at other clubs when Roos arrived. It was a very bare list indeed.

Senior players when Roos arrived;

• Nathan Jones (quality mid)
• Lynden Dunn (serviceable AFL player)
• Col Garland (serviceable AFL player)
• Mark Jamar (serviceable AFL player)

Most of these guys would have grown organically anyway, but just to illustrate where some of our growth has come from in the past 18 months, here are the players to improve/develop since Roos arrived;

• Neville Jetta (resurrected delist to best 22)
• Tom McDonald (is becoming an elite KPD)
• Jack Viney (has developed strongly)
• Jack Watts (has improved significantly)
• Jesse Hogan (hadn’t played before Roos arrived)
• Max Gawn (is becoming an elite ruck)

And, here are the players brought in since Roos has arrived;

• Dom Tyson (traded in 2 for 1)
• Dean Kent (important attacking half forward)
• Angus Brayshaw (future midfield star)
• Christian Salem (traded in 2 for 1)
• Bernie Vince (has been immense)
• Arron Vandenburg (potential best 22)
• Jeff Garlett (has been an excellent recruit)
• Daniel Cross (has been an excellent recruit)
• Christian Petracca (future midfield star)

That is a lot of changes - and a lot of improvement. He's still building the list, and training the team to play the way he wants - so we are bound to have some poor patches over the next 28 matches or whatever it is.

Im pretty confident though, that when Roos hands over to Goodwin after another trading period - and Goodwin has a trading period of his own before 2017, we will be in a totally different position to when Roos arrived. And that's always been his job. Not to get us into the top 8 or 4, but to be the face of the club whilst it restructures itself over a period of time.

He was always going to cop some flack along the way, and that's why we needed a legend in the role - in order that he can stay the course and we dont implode ..again.

 

[Topkent]

Demon 16, I guess one thing thats always forgotten as well is that 2013 was really a 0 win season
We beat the expansion sides who could barely be considered anything yet

so we went from 0 wins, to 4 and now 5 so far

 

[Demon 16]

Demon 16, I guess one thing thats always forgotten as well is that 2013 was really a 0 win season
We beat the expansion sides who could barely be considered anything yet

so we went from 0 wins, to 4 and now 5 so far

Before Roos arrived I dont think I'd tipped us to win (outside of expansion teams) for over 2 years.

I can say that other than probably Hawthorn and the Perth sides, I feel like we are a small chance or better in every game we play.

Even with our last 2 weeks of poor form, its not beyond the rhealm of possibility that we could sneak one against the Pies this weekend.

I wasnt thinking like that in 2013, I can tell you!

 

[Proper Gander]

Before Roos arrived I dont think I'd tipped us to win (outside of expansion teams) for over 2 years.

I can say that other than probably Hawthorn and the Perth sides, I feel like we are a small chance or better in every game we play.

Even with our last 2 weeks of poor form, its not beyond the rhealm of possibility that we could sneak one against the Pies this weekend.

I wasnt thinking like that in 2013, I can tell you!

Keep up the bracing words! I feel myself reviving

 

[Demon 16]

Keep up the bracing words! I feel myself reviving

It was definitely a testing weekend. I dont blame you.

 

[The Dr]

Here's some food for thought. Consider the players on our list that would have got games at other clubs when Roos arrived. It was a very bare list indeed.

Senior players when Roos arrived;

• Nathan Jones (quality mid)
• Lynden Dunn (serviceable AFL player)
• Col Garland (serviceable AFL player)
• Mark Jamar (serviceable AFL player)

Most of these guys would have grown organically anyway, but just to illustrate where some of our growth has come from in the past 18 months, here are the players to improve/develop since Roos arrived;

• Neville Jetta (resurrected delist to best 22)
• Tom McDonald (is becoming an elite KPD)
• Jack Viney (has developed strongly)
• Jack Watts (has improved significantly)
• Jesse Hogan (hadn’t played before Roos arrived)
• Max Gawn (is becoming an elite ruck)

And, here are the players brought in since Roos has arrived;

• Dom Tyson (traded in 2 for 1)
• Dean Kent (important attacking half forward)
• Angus Brayshaw (future midfield star)
• Christian Salem (traded in 2 for 1)
• Bernie Vince (has been immense)
• Arron Vandenburg (potential best 22)
• Jeff Garlett (has been an excellent recruit)
• Daniel Cross (has been an excellent recruit)
• Christian Petracca (future midfield star)

That is a lot of changes - and a lot of improvement. He's still building the list, and training the team to play the way he wants - so we are bound to have some poor patches over the next 28 matches or whatever it is.

Im pretty confident though, that when Roos hands over to Goodwin after another trading period - and Goodwin has a trading period of his own before 2017, we will be in a totally different position to when Roos arrived. And that's always been his job. Not to get us into the top 8 or 4, but to be the face of the club whilst it restructures itself over a period of time.

He was always going to cop some flack along the way, and that's why we needed a legend in the role - in order that he can stay the course and we dont implode ..again.

A really well thought out, intelligent post. A lot of it is right on the money and gives us some perspective of where we currently sit compared to the truly dark ages.

However, regarding the 'two for one' deal with Salem and Tyson, a lot of people gloss over the fact we also gave GWS an early second round pick as well.

(In all, we gave up picks 2, 20 and 72 and received Tyson, pick 9 and 53).