Drugs/doping in AFL

[Saintos The ITK]

you missed the best part. apparently the rumour was started by pies players and two other players from another club

pretty effin low

Wonder if this has got anything to do with what day it is tomorrow?

 

[HayesTheChamp]

Wonder if this has got anything to do with what day it is tomorrow?

Even so, I think that's a line you don't cross - especially when an individual's reputation and career might be at stake or impacted by it.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Even so, I think that's a line you don't cross - especially when an individual's reputation and career might be at stake or impacted by it.

For sure, if it is a joke it's in poor taste.

 

[SK_MD_#7]

Even so, I think that's a line you don't cross - especially when an individual's reputation and career might be at stake or impacted by it.

Agree.

Imagine how Tom Hickey and Tom Bell would feel with their names thrown around in something they know nothing about. Especially something like that.

 

[VDS66]

Yeah yeah Essendon got off.
But they still cant tell us what exactly was injected into their players which means they were guilty but were able to cover their own arses with lies and played the old Alan Bond ' i dont remember card' very well .
Still as crooked as a dogs hind leg IMO.

Unfortunately, it's like trying to prove a murder without a body.

Because no one tested positive, it's difficult to prove. Because all the main turds involved won't speak (Dank) it's impossible to prove.

The tribunal said they were not comfortable finding them guilty, so for reasons above, it's not exactly beyond reasonable doubt.

I hope WADA appeal this decision.

As far as our players go, if the are found guilty, then piss them off... regardless of who they are.

If it was thru cocaine, then the AFL has dug a hole for itself with it's 3 strikes policy.

 

[ike2112]

Well, that depends. If it's just the one player, then the club can distance itself very quickly from the scandal by simply dumping them, hard and fast. That's what Eddie has done - he's made them look like an aberration from the club culture, and we'll do the same with this guy. Finnis is a former AFLPA CEO, he's going to know exactly how to play this to our advantage. If anything the outrage felt by all about Essendon will work in our favour, because we'll be a stark contrast to them.

Finnis' background however as the AFLPA is leaned towards individual welfare, so is he that likely to dump the player entirely?

If this is a situation of 'social' drugs being tainted with a banned substance, the players could in theory come clean. The AFL anti-doping policy on this is a 3-strike system, its an absolute joke. So if they can prove its a tainted batch, they can take strike one on the soft AFL system and they appeal for a short ban.

 

[ike2112]

Is the "I didn't know it was in the recreational drugs I took" a defense that could work to stop any major suspensions? Could you play it as a defense around being deceived into taking it? It's a long shot but I think it could be their only option.

If that is the source of the Collingwood players' failed tests, then they could argue that, yes, as a mitigating circumstance.

But unlike Saad getting 18 months instead of 2 years, they are facing 4 years. So even a similar reduction for them, would be a 3-year ban.

You also have to prove it, so they'd need to have some left and be able to send it to a lab. At which point you'd think the police would charge them for possession.

 

[Winners Only]

After reading whats been released of the tribunal findings I think they (ASADA) would only appeal if in the appellant court they could force Dank, Robinson and Aliva to testisfy. I dont know if that would be outside the admissible rules of evidence, but that seems there only hope of linking the players to the banned substances.

 

[ike2112]

You would have to be a deadset moron of the highest order to NOT hear the clamouring voices around this issue, ESPECIALLY at St Kilda. After what happened to Saady, how could anybody be so utterly stupid? Even Armo today was saying that the players get it drummed into them mercilessly, to the point where the older players get frustrated, along the lines of, "do we have to listen to this again!? As IF any of us could be this stupid, in this day and age?"

Guess somebody was.

Perhaps then the problem is that people aren't listening, or thinking in the right context.

If it is, as people have alluded to, coming from recreational drugs then the players likely are on a night out and just take them. They can't take them to a lab first to check they're ok. You can guarantee all Saints players check their protein supplements these days, but I just don't think the message overall through the whole league and every risk, is sinking in.

The AFL having a 3-strike rule is a big part of that. What that says to me is "we know that its expected that you'll dabble at some time, but just try keep a lid on it. We'll help, if you get pinged we'll find out how it happened for you and you can avoid that in future. Get pinged a second time and you'll have to be careful - but don't worry too much as we put a time limit on how long the 'strikes' even count..."
They are effectively facilitating AFL players using recreational drugs. Thats just mad.

 

[ike2112]

Looks like Matthew Lloyd just doesn't get it either going by a recent tweet.

"It doesn't matter what club you barrack for, that is a great result for the game of Australian rules football. Bring on Thursday night!!"

It will be a great result for the game if James and Matthew appear on the Footy Show and list day by day which players were injected with what substance.

It would be such a simple way to clear the air and players. Makes you wonder why they didn't do it two years ago. Oh thats right - they don't know.

Whats was it that Ziggy Switkowski said - oh yeah "uncontrolled pharmacological experiment"

It is good for the sport. Its the start of people being caught. And hopefully the Pies players are pinged due to it being from a recreational use, and the AFL realise their 3-strike system is worse than useless, if anything its facilitating use!

You want a cleaner sport, people will need to get caught and there will be news stories. But you'll be able to believe more of what you see.

The difficult part is coming to terms with the fact that what you saw in the past, was an enhanced/altered reality.

 

[Kilroy]

Hi guys. Much happened since I logged off last night?

Nah, business as usual.
But Gillon McLaughlin turns out to be Hamish McLaughlin's brother.
That's blown my friggin' mind.

 

[Ekomaira]

Nah, business as usual.
But Gillon McLaughlin turns out to be Hamish McLaughlin's brother.
That's blown my friggin' mind.

Come again

inb4 that's what she said

 

[Kilroy]

Agree.

Imagine how Tom Hickey and Tom Bell would feel with their names thrown around in something they know nothing about. Especially something like that.

Good thing we didn't mention their names then.

 

[SK_MD_#7]

Good thing we didn't mention their names then.

They've been mentioned all over other places anyway. Not exactly a secret

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Personally I'm happy the Essendon lads got off, we can now get over this saga and enjoy footy for what it is.
Hird will always be seen in a different light and we get to hold onto our coveted top 1, 2 or 3 pick

Completely disagree with you. Essendon had systematic and widespread cheating, where they injected players thousands of times, trying for advantage over all other clubs. They have destroyed all records, deleted computer medical reports, refused to give evidence, stymied the process the entire way and then they get off. Saad gets 18 months for an infraction that is legal on all other days. The two Collingwood players are reported to be looking at from 2-4 years suspension, yet Essendon had a chemical factory going and they get off.

Can appreciate that everyone wants the football on and for this to go away, but what a disgusting taste this leaves in everyone's mouth, where Essendon have cheated and got away with it. Unfortunately Essendon and the AFL have constructed the result they both wanted. I hope WADA appeals this and Essendon have to answer to a real inquiry and not one manipulated by Essendon and the AFL.

 

[By a Point]

So in your opinion, if it's the former, can asada lay fresh charges based on new evidence? Or is there a double jeopardy issue and have they done their dash?

Either way, Hunter wins some cash I'd assume (notwithstanding the fact that Essendon won't want more
negative media)

I was unclear on whether the evidence given was sworn. I don't expect it was. I doubt that the players could be charged again, unless the appeals process led to a fresh hearing.

 

[gringo2011]

I was unclear on whether the evidence given was sworn. I don't expect it was. I doubt that the players could be charged again, unless the appeals process led to a fresh hearing.

Double jeopardy is mostly a US thing where if you are tried twice and found innocent they can't retry you. I don't think we have it anywhere in Australia. If you were tried twice in court and new evidence turns up 20 years later after 2 trials I think you are still fair game here.

On this case I don't think they need new evidence but they would probably want to get some extra powers added to ASADA so they can force Dank, Alavi and Charters to testify. I think most people feel they have worked the system in their favour rather than been exonerated. Steven Milne faced people's justice for his entire career. I hope the opposition fans give the Bombers players and Hird the same venomous vitriol Milne copped for his entire career.

Essendon know they can bully the government departments who need to work with in tight budgets. ASADA probably can't afford to pursue it, they really need WADA to step in with a wider term of reference.

 

[70s sainter]

Afl players are professional athletes and to use the "c'mon it was in the coke I was snorting behind the clubs back " argument would be cheeky at best and completely insulting really.

 

[holllywood]

And they way that the Essendon supporters are strutting around like Kings, taking pot shots at ASADA for doing their job. I hope WADA or Work Safe come in and bring them back to size.

As Titus O'Reily tweeted, my thoughts are with the sensible Essendon supporters. Both of them.

 

[ike2112]

Even the statements from Charter that "the players were duped" shows Essendon to be in the wrong.

Whether the players deserve a ban or not, the facts as presented are that Essendon injected players. They claim to not know what with. This makes it difficult to confirm the players had a banned substance injected, but on the flip it does make it very easy to charge Essendon with a complete lack of control, lack of suitable record-keeping, and lack of governance. They are effectively admitting that, by stating they cannot confirm what was injected. Are the punishments handed out to them so far actually sufficient?

I'll say again that the reason this sickens me isn't that the players didn't get a ban. To be honest I have a certain amount of sympathy for the players; I've taken things my national team Dr gave me without questioning it and I've had what I was told was cortizone injections but I have no idea for certain. But the judge effectively saying the case isn't tight enough pretty much gives every Essendon fan the opportunity to play the victim, as if the club and Hird didn't deserve their punishment. If anything the court findings suggest to me that the penalties towards everyone outside of the players perhaps still wasn't strong enough.

 

[ike2112]

Afl players are professional athletes and to use the "c'mon it was in the coke I was snorting behind the clubs back " argument would be cheeky at best and completely insulting really.

I have a feeling something of this sort has been argued before. Was one recreational drug but turned out to be tainted with methamphetamine. I'll see if I can recall who it was, might suggest an outcome - not that the Australian authorities appear to pay attention to any precedents... even ones they set themselves.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Afl players are professional athletes and to use the "c'mon it was in the coke I was snorting behind the clubs back " argument would be cheeky at best and completely insulting really.

But still better than Essendon's "the dog at my homework" response.

 

[ike2112]

Actually now I think about it, I'm wasting my time. If these guys got caught out with tests during NAB challenge, then they're done anyway. Both Cocaine and the main active ingredient in Ecstacy are also banned in-competition under the WADA code, so they're cooked.

http://list.wada-ama.org/list/s6-stimulants/

 

[boydie]

morning all,
After a nite to think about all this I think it is time to wait and see what happens and start thinking a bit positively about our Sainters!

Its round 1 this weekend and while we are looking like having a tough year, our Club has taken a MASSIVE step forward over the offseason with a great bunch of kids coming through and looking to get game experience to help lift this club back into the finals!
I for 1 would love to see a bit more positivity in this forum as I think that its better for the club and us fans as a whole and will make this year a great one!

Who is with me???

 

[TheLastEmperor]

I would laugh so hard if WADA took the Bombers to cas, won on appeal then made sure the club was de-registered for 2 years.


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