EDFL Division 1 - 2012

[obe1]

Example: Keilor reaches peak of say 80 under 10's. The kids then go to neighbouring club. This is better than Keilor having 110+ under 10's in 4 teams.

FYI , Keilor FC have currently have a cap of 96 kids in the 3 junior age groups.( 4 teams in each age level) This has been the case for the past 5 plus years. In my 3 years of coaching at the club we have had zero players come to the club from Keilor Park or East Keilor.

 

[digger24]

Whats happening at Tullamarine ? I have heard there are a numnber of guys not happy with the coach and looking at going elsewhere next season. A few guys have signed with Yarraville in WRFL i believe.

Dissapointing after making the preliminary final.

 

[THRU DA LINES]

Example: Keilor reaches peak of say 80 under 10's. The kids then go to neighbouring club. This is better than Keilor having 110+ under 10's in 4 teams.

FYI , Keilor FC have currently have a cap of 96 kids in the 3 junior age groups.( 4 teams in each age level) This has been the case for the past 5 plus years. In my 3 years of coaching at the club we have had zero players come to the club from Keilor Park or East Keilor.

96 players is still a lot at under 10's and almost a complete team more than what I suggested. You may not have players who have come from EK or KP because they may not have gone to those clubs in the first place as your club provides so many spots!

Example: Aberefeldie has around 70+ under 16 players then have 40+ drop out at under 18 level because they have one under 18 team. These players lost to footy as they wont change clubs after 8 years of juniors at their club. Direct them when they are young and they are more likely to stay.

 

[Jasper Jones]

Any news on the numbers turning up for pre-seasons around the league? Any big signings that haven't been discussed already or rumours of signings to come?

 

[twobobsworth]

96 players is still a lot at under 10's and almost a complete team more than what I suggested. You may not have players who have come from EK or KP because they may not have gone to those clubs in the first place as your club provides so many spots!

Example: Aberefeldie has around 70+ under 16 players then have 40+ drop out at under 18 level because they have one under 18 team. These players lost to footy as they wont change clubs after 8 years of juniors at their club. Direct them when they are young and they are more likely to stay.

I agree that the imbalance of kids at clubs is not in the best interests of the B Grade clubs struggling at junior level, however I also think that kids go to the big clubs because a) their mates play there or b) their parents want them to play there. c) because they live within walking distance. If they cap the teams at a bg club and an U10 boy doesn't make Teams 1 to 4 then the chances are he isn't a great player and was just going to enjoy playing footy as every kid should. It is possible that if this kid can't play with his mates that he would be lost to footy at that age rather than later on. Maybe he would have developed, got stronger, gained skills etc etc and stuck with footy or maybe he wouldn't but there is a bigger chance that this kid wouldn't go to a club where he doesn't know anyone and an even smaller number of parents who would encourage their kids to go to a club other than the one they want them at.

I think that B grade clubs like KP, EK, Tullamarine whos top junior side is in third division would benefit more from league assistance to promote and develop their juniors, so that they become an real alternative to the big clubs. Simply capping the teams wont solve the problem.

 

[noitall]

Whats happening at Tullamarine ? I have heard there are a numnber of guys not happy with the coach and looking at going elsewhere next season. A few guys have signed with Yarraville in WRFL i believe.

Dissapointing after making the preliminary final.

Also heard one of their good players checking out an A Grade alternative!!

 

[product2]

Dont worry yourself too much Digger. The fringe players that have left didnt like hearing a few home truths the coach delivered. The turnover of players would be the same if not less than most clubs. I wish any player who leaves the best but neither of the players that have left (J. Harmes & D. Dorazio) to play at Yarraville will leave any hole. All the major players from last year are committed.

The players recruited share about 10 senior flags between them and are the perfect B grade recruits.

Noitall... feel free to share with us who you have heard is heading to an A Grade club. I know J Marcy trained with Stathmore but thats because Tulla had not started training yet and he is a glutton for punishment. Been telling everyone he wants to play Full Forward and win Tulla a flag. Dont judge him... He is a simple boy

 

[digger24]

Dont worry yourself too much Digger. The fringe players that have left didnt like hearing a few home truths the coach delivered. The turnover of players would be the same if not less than most clubs. I wish any player who leaves the best but neither of the players that have left (J. Harmes & D. Dorazio) to play at Yarraville will leave any hole. All the major players from last year are committed.

The players recruited share about 10 senior flags between them and are the perfect B grade recruits.

Noitall... feel free to share with us who you have heard is heading to an A Grade club. I know J Marcy trained with Stathmore but thats because Tulla had not started training yet and he is a glutton for punishment. Been telling everyone he wants to play Full Forward and win Tulla a flag. Dont judge him... He is a simple boy

I have been following Tullamarine since the mid 90s and its comments like these that really annoy me.

First off, its more than a couple of guys who are leaving. 2 others are also off to yarraville and there are another possible 5 off to other clubs or not playing. Thats up to 9! so ether 9 guys dont like hearing "home truths" or the coach had a problem communicating to the player group. Based on what i saw during the year and after the preliminary final i would say its the later.

As for "fringe players" Harmes was vice captain and top 6 in B&F wasnt he?

Maybe your comments are an attempt to defuse what may be happening, wouldnt it be bettrto recruit to add to the list rather than replace?

There are deeper issues than you think

 

[product2]

Digger... I am not going to comment anymore on the players leaving other than to say they didnt like what they were told. And that is life. There has never been a coach who has made everyone happy. People need to be told things at times. Some people respond. Some dont.
Players not playing? That is supposed to be the coach's fault? If they wanted to play and they had an issue with the coach they would go somewhere else. If they dont play....... well maybe they just dont want to play. Sh@t mate... at my age I might decide not to play. I will remember to blame the coach when I am no good anymore.

As for the after final saga. That is dead and buried and those involved have moved on and committed to the club. Those that have left either either thought they were better than they were or didnt like hearing "home truths". They are good blokes and I wish them well in WRFL B grade.

Every club has turn-over. Last year people were screaming about how many players left Tulla. Well they improved and finished 3rd. And with the talent they have they should be Top 2 next year and contenders again. Of course its better to recruit than replace. And Tulla have picked up 5 starting 18 players and lost 1.

Tullamarine are very very happy with its lot right now and expect big things next year. I hope to see you there in full support next year. Private message me so we can catch up after a game and have a beer and talk about it.

 

[THRU DA LINES]

I agree that the imbalance of kids at clubs is not in the best interests of the B Grade clubs struggling at junior level, however I also think that kids go to the big clubs because a) their mates play there or b) their parents want them to play there. c) because they live within walking distance. If they cap the teams at a bg club and an U10 boy doesn't make Teams 1 to 4 then the chances are he isn't a great player and was just going to enjoy playing footy as every kid should. It is possible that if this kid can't play with his mates that he would be lost to footy at that age rather than later on. Maybe he would have developed, got stronger, gained skills etc etc and stuck with footy or maybe he wouldn't but there is a bigger chance that this kid wouldn't go to a club where he doesn't know anyone and an even smaller number of parents who would encourage their kids to go to a club other than the one they want them at.

I think that B grade clubs like KP, EK, Tullamarine whos top junior side is in third division would benefit more from league assistance to promote and develop their juniors, so that they become an real alternative to the big clubs. Simply capping the teams wont solve the problem.

The current system based on your preference isn't working
Example: Aberefeldie has around 70+ under 16 players then have 40+ drop out at under 18 level because they have one under 18 team
Also, juniors is not based on if someone is a great player at under 10's. Clubs don't do "try outs" so it is not a case of being good enough or not. Cap registrations at say 80 and 8 year old will play up the road. A lot of kids who play at Keilor drive past a couple of clubs to get there.


Another reason to cap junior numbers is: Clubs like Strathmore with 420 juniors @ $450 per registration = almost $190,000 in junior membership. Tullamarine and Airport West who are amongst the favourites to win B Grade flag and go into A Grade in 2013 have around 120 juniors @ ($160 registration + $6 per game) = $29,000. That is $160,000 difference. When you add on the extra revenue that these families put into their club, the difference will be around $200,000 YES! An extra $200,000 that a club the size of Strathmore will have to spend on players. So if the type of league we want is one where only 3 clubs can win an A Grade flag, don't change things. It's a bit like Collingwood having double the salary cap of other teams (God help us) or the Premier League with Manchester United winning all the time.

 

[Macca29]

Digger... I am not going to comment anymore on the players leaving other than to say they didnt like what they were told. And that is life. There has never been a coach who has made everyone happy. People need to be told things at times. Some people respond. Some dont.
Players not playing? That is supposed to be the coach's fault? If they wanted to play and they had an issue with the coach they would go somewhere else. If they dont play....... well maybe they just dont want to play. Sh@t mate... at my age I might decide not to play. I will remember to blame the coach when I am no good anymore.

As for the after final saga. That is dead and buried and those involved have moved on and committed to the club. Those that have left either either thought they were better than they were or didnt like hearing "home truths". They are good blokes and I wish them well in WRFL B grade.

Every club has turn-over. Last year people were screaming about how many players left Tulla. Well they improved and finished 3rd. And with the talent they have they should be Top 2 next year and contenders again. Of course its better to recruit than replace. And Tulla have picked up 5 starting 18 players and lost 1.

Tullamarine are very very happy with its lot right now and expect big things next year. I hope to see you there in full support next year. Private message me so we can catch up after a game and have a beer and talk about it.

well said product man and manning is good apparently although id be hesitant sending your kids to his school with his mouth loves a swear word or 50 ooh he is a school teacher isnt he however APW have tzhe 2012 flag sewn up give it to KD now

 

[twobobsworth]

The current system based on your preference isn't working
Example: Aberefeldie has around 70+ under 16 players then have 40+ drop out at under 18 level because they have one under 18 team
Also, juniors is not based on if someone is a great player at under 10's. Clubs don't do "try outs" so it is not a case of being good enough or not. Cap registrations at say 80 and 8 year old will play up the road. A lot of kids who play at Keilor drive past a couple of clubs to get there.


Another reason to cap junior numbers is: Clubs like Strathmore with 420 juniors @ $450 per registration = almost $190,000 in junior membership. Tullamarine and Airport West who are amongst the favourites to win B Grade flag and go into A Grade in 2013 have around 120 juniors @ ($160 registration + $6 per game) = $29,000. That is $160,000 difference. When you add on the extra revenue that these families put into their club, the difference will be around $200,000 YES! An extra $200,000 that a club the size of Strathmore will have to spend on players. So if the type of league we want is one where only 3 clubs can win an A Grade flag, don't change things. It's a bit like Collingwood having double the salary cap of other teams (God help us) or the Premier League with Manchester United winning all the time.

Your argument is based on the assumption that if you cap the numbers at a big club the kids will go to a neighboring B grade club, I think a small number might but a lot will play another sport or not play at all. And if there was a cap they would have to try out because I cannot see the big clubs working on a first come first served basis and missing a potentially good kid. Again the biggest factor at U10s by far is kids wanting to play with their mates followed by where the parents want them to play. Maybe the league needs to help establish an Auskick at the struggling clubs to try and bring a batch of kids through and then its up to the clubs to keep them there. The next problem is that as soon as the kids show any potential either the parents want them to go to an A grade club to give them the best chance possible for reps sides, Cannons squads etc or the A Grade clubs poach them. Douttas was a beauty at that for a long time. So the short answer is that a cap may not be the best answer.

The whole money side is a completely different discussion, and I agree the money made from juniors a big reason why the big clubs would not want a cap, but the EDFL loves the publicity it gets for all the ex AFL players in the comp and would not change anything that might threaten that anytime soon. Maybe it will take a couple of clubs to fold or merge to get their attention.

 

[HELLSBELLS]

well said product man and manning is good apparently although id be hesitant sending your kids to his school with his mouth loves a swear word or 50 ooh he is a school teacher isnt he however APW have tzhe 2012 flag sewn up give it to KD now

Not sure how accurate my info is but i dont think KD is having to much to do down at APW at the moment , think he has sort of been squeezed out the the new young commitee down there , last i heard KD was getting courted to maybe join the commitee down at Coburg Districts where Ron Rooney has gone ...

 

[noitall]

Dont worry yourself too much Digger. The fringe players that have left didnt like hearing a few home truths the coach delivered. The turnover of players would be the same if not less than most clubs. I wish any player who leaves the best but neither of the players that have left (J. Harmes & D. Dorazio) to play at Yarraville will leave any hole. All the major players from last year are committed.

The players recruited share about 10 senior flags between them and are the perfect B grade recruits.

Noitall... feel free to share with us who you have heard is heading to an A Grade club. I know J Marcy trained with Stathmore but thats because Tulla had not started training yet and he is a glutton for punishment. Been telling everyone he wants to play Full Forward and win Tulla a flag. Dont judge him... He is a simple boy

Dissapointing with the two outs, you could have used a bit of experience in the twos

. Also good to hear that my sources were right, you hear all sorts of stuff at this time of year. But the big question is how good will APW be as they seem to be this years money team and will your recruits be enough...

 

[Rocky_Star_Pro]

Out of interest, what happened after the preliminary final? I've heard something happened after Tulla's loss, but can someone explain what happened?

 

[Star]

Interesting debate.

Example: Aberefeldie has around 70+ under 16 players then have 40+ drop out at under 18 level because they have one under 18 team.

But didn't they had a second U18 team this year and weren't able to fill it? Not a knock on them, just pretty sure this is the case.

I agree that the imbalance of kids at clubs is not in the best interests of the B Grade clubs struggling at junior level, however I also think that kids go to the big clubs because a) their mates play there or b) their parents want them to play there. c) because they live within walking distance.

In my experience it is generally a) or c), at least I hope it is. There are still some that live next to a football ground yet take their child back to the club that they represented which I think is wrong. Let the kids play with their mates, its about the kids not the dad not letting go of his own career.

A lot of kids who play at Keilor drive past a couple of clubs to get there.

This.

Another reason to cap junior numbers is: Clubs like Strathmore with 420 juniors @ $450 per registration = almost $190,000 in junior membership. Tullamarine and Airport West who are amongst the favourites to win B Grade flag and go into A Grade in 2013 have around 120 juniors @ ($160 registration + $6 per game) = $29,000. That is $160,000 difference. When you add on the extra revenue that these families put into their club, the difference will be around $200,000 YES! An extra $200,000 that a club the size of Strathmore will have to spend on players. So if the type of league we want is one where only 3 clubs can win an A Grade flag, don't change things. It's a bit like Collingwood having double the salary cap of other teams (God help us) or the Premier League with Manchester United winning all the time.

A couple of comments about this.

Firstly, your figures on Strathmore are not quite right, the figure is much less than 300 because the membership is per family, and Strathmore doesn't run four flights in U14 and U16 - but I appreciate where you are going with this.

Some clubs have strong junior memberships, others, without naming names, have some very wealthy benefactors with very deep pockets. Others are just very well supported. Getting hundreds along to a sportsmans night at fifty bucks a pop or to a pot & parma night on a Thursday night is brilliant for the clubs that can do that.

A-Grade premierships are bloody hard to win. Strathmore is no certainty to make the finals next season, not because they will have different personel but because the competition is that tough. The last 3-4 years has seen player payments go crazy in the EDFL and it is a sink or swim mentality to some extent.

Strong clubs such as Keilor, Abers, Strathmore, Greenvale and Doutta's will survive because of a strong foundation that has taken decades (I know Greenvale is new world) to establish. I fear for clubs relying on one or two sources of income as things can sour quickly if/when the money dries up.

Sorry for the brainstormed rant but one final point is I love what Avondale Heights are doing. That club is being rebuilt from the bottom up with a great Auskick and junior program right through to Chris Johnson and the work he is doing with the 16s upwards. Gone from one team in all grades to all of a sudden 2 x U10s and next year I believe 2 x U12s.

 

[s_cranberry]

however APW have tzhe 2012 flag sewn up give it to KD now

Pretty sure the same thing was said about marby... Took them a couple of years to win it though... Pascoe vale same.... Nothing is Garaunteed... All it takes is The side to play poorly on GF day.. Upsets do happen

 

[THRU DA LINES]

Interesting debate.


But didn't they had a second U18 team this year and weren't able to fill it? Not a knock on them, just pretty sure this is the case.


Sorry for the brainstormed rant but one final point is I love what Avondale Heights are doing. That club is being rebuilt from the bottom up with a great Auskick and junior program right through to Chris Johnson and the work he is doing with the 16s upwards. Gone from one team in all grades to all of a sudden 2 x U10s and next year I believe 2 x U12s.

Abers U18 second team only lasted 4 rounds and they dropped off. That means 40+ under 16's lost to footy.

Avondale also have new clubrooms. Saw a junior game there late last season and they have best facilities in league BY FAR. That would include WFL and NFL! Don't know where they got the money from but great set up. Their website shows that they are only gold club in EDFL.

Are you from Avondale Star? If so, how did they get such great facilities?

 

[Star]

Abers U18 second team only lasted 4 rounds and they dropped off. That means 40+ under 16's lost to footy.]

But that's my point. There was a team there for these 40+ under 16s but for whatever reason they couldn't fill the second side. Certainly can't blame the club for not facilitating it.

 

[Star]

Are you from Avondale Star? If so, how did they get such great facilities?

I'm from Strathmore but have a keen and vested interest in junior footy. I have a mate at AH that has worked his arse off for the juniors, lobbied council, bought Auskick back to the club and galvanized the whole junior part of the club. I'm sure he had others helping him but shows what can be achieved with a bit of nous.

As you said. The facilities are great and the envy of many clubs.

Glenroy have great facilities too now but not sure how they went about theirs.

 

[kenny_powers55]

Any news on any of the clubs at this stage before Christmas? Who has picked up who? How many numbers on the track? How is everyone looking for the 2012 season?

 

[Bronx Bomber]

According to an article in this weeks Moonee Valley Leader the confirmed Airport West signings are -

Daniel Harris (Ex AFL - Gold Coast)
Adam Contessa (Ex AFL - Western Bulldogs, Eltham, Bundoora)
Simon Wiggins (Ex AFL - Carlton, Sunshine)
Clayton Rogers (Bundoora)
Troy Barbero
Stephen Glenn (Albion)
Joel Bonnici (Greenvale)
Trent Rogers (Returning from overseas)
Mick Martin (Returning from injury)

Article also says that they didn't speak to Bundoora premiership ruckman John Kreuzer who is believed to be headed to Epping.

 

[Time to relax]

Anyone heard or confirm if Brad Julier has signed at East Keilor, the best ruckman in the WRFL over the last 5 or so years?

 

[colts4life]

According to an article in this weeks Moonee Valley Leader the confirmed Airport West signings are -

Daniel Harris (Ex AFL - Gold Coast)
Adam Contessa (Ex AFL - Western Bulldogs, Eltham, Bundoora)
Simon Wiggins (Ex AFL - Carlton, Sunshine)
Clayton Rogers (Bundoora)
Troy Barbero
Stephen Glenn (Albion)
Joel Bonnici (Greenvale)
Trent Rogers (Returning from overseas)
Mick Martin (Returning from injury)

Any word if they signed Simon Wiggins brother Pat also ex Sunshine ?

 

[s_cranberry]

Anyone heard or confirm if Brad Julier has signed at East Keilor, the best ruckman in the WRFL over the last 5 or so years?

Suprising if true... They already have bruno and destanivic