EDFL Premier Division 2017

[The Good Oil]

Totally agree there should be no limit. Why should clubs be penalised for doing the right thing in working hard to become a strong community based sporting club.

Are all clubs working as hard as they possibly can and are they thinking laterally on how to continually improve? Or do they just sit back and pot those who appear to be doing better than them?

Marbi got off their backside and have become a very strong community based club - many of our juniors have migrated their because of that and other reasons.

The environment of a club is also a key reason you (as a parent) decide where your child plays - decision is not always based on your child having success or to receive the best coaching.

Is the club a family club, are they active enough in social events, are they inclusive, are their good facilities, is their good people involved, does the club have a strong culture, is the senior program connected to the junior program etc. are all factors when deciding where your boy or girl plays their football in my opinion.

There is no doubt that abers are very well run by a great group of people. But you can't seriously think it's all down to hard work. It is clearly not a level playing field.

 

[Scoopar]

Scoopar you make some good points, and I agree with your point about exorbitant player payments. EDFL is admittedly several levels below AFL standard, however I disagree with your assertion that it is basically " paddock" football.

A fair few guys who've played AFL. Quite a few who've played VFL firsts or seconds, lots of talented local products, and a high promotion of ex AFL players as coaches does not in my view constitute " paddock" football. If you were talking about a small country league, then your description may be warranted.

The ground I saw on the weekend resembled a paddock. I guess what I'm getting at, these grounds are not kept to the same standard as the AFL/VFL grounds.

 

[KB Hungry]

This is totally incorrect re Strathmore. SFC had to let go some very good young footballers that looked to join the U17s this year because as places dried up, priority was given to existing and registered players. As it turns out, they could have accommodated them due to a ridiculous spate of injuries at the level this year but obviously they weren't to know that at the time and wanted to guarantee every player a game every week. Not one boy missed a game this year due to too many numbers. I have not heard of any 'lesser talented' kids being let go by any club to accommodate a new kid.

Star, I have it on good authority that SFC were limited to three teams only even though they could have fielded a four side as they had enough kids. Any kids that didn't make the three sides or arrived after kids had been registered for the three sides were advised to seek other alternatives.

 

[Turbos mail]

The ground I saw on the weekend resembled a paddock. I guess what I'm getting at, these grounds are not kept to the same standard as the AFL/VFL grounds.

Unfortunately that Marby ground isn't in the best shape and not a "real" Footy Ground as such. Great club but unfortunately for them their ground is a paddock. It would have been great for them if Parkside (WRFL) had folded and they could have took over that ground for match day footy.. Its really only a junior ground imo..

 

[Star]

Star, I have it on good authority that SFC were limited to three teams only even though they could have fielded a four side as they had enough kids. Any kids that didn't make the three sides or arrived after kids had been registered for the three sides were advised to seek other alternatives.

That's what I said!

SFC gives priority to current players. I was rebutting the point that SFC let go 'lesser talented' kids (to quote the original poster) in favour of newer, gun players. All of the players asked to seek alternatives were not registered, had not played at SFC before and I can assure you some were guns. However the club did the right thing and made existing and past players the first priority.

 

[Star]

It already happens. They are limited to 4 teams per age group, so why not let them have 6 or 7 teams. Clubs like Strathmore charge exorbitant costs to parents who want their kids to play at "it" club. Lets just fold half the teams in the edfl and have 8 teams from Strathmore, Abers and Keilor in all junior competitions. I would go as far as bringing in zones for under 15s and below. When i played under 10s in the early 80s, each club had 1 team.

No need to be facetious, the 4 teams per age group (3 at U17s and previously 16s) has been in place for years and grading ensures that it is an even playing field whether clubs have 1 or 4 teams.

Why is it difficult to accept the best run clubs max out their numbers? (Incidentally, SFC only has 4 teams in U11s, 3 in the others)

How would your zoning argument work if all of the kids lived in the Strathmore area? Kids gravitate to clubs because their mates are there. Simply introducing a zone and limiting numbers won't guarantee a more even spread as you will always have kids walking away from poorly run clubs with the only difference is they give up the game rather than seek an alternative.

Also, nothing is forever. There is a very strong EDFL club that is seeing unprecedented drop off in numbers and quality of its juniors. As I alluded to earlier, not all of these kids are playing elsewhere, many have walked away from football.

Re your exorbitant costs, If this was so prohibitive, don't you think said club would struggle to attract numbers? I've seen how hard SFC has worked off the field over the past decade to build a solid junior framework. Clearly the costs aren't exorbitant at all if kids are being knocked back due to numbers!

 

[Turbos mail]

No need to be facetious, the 4 teams per age group (3 at U17s and previously 16s) has been in place for years and grading ensures that it is an even playing field whether clubs have 1 or 4 teams.

Why is it difficult to accept the best run clubs max out their numbers? (Incidentally, SFC only has 4 teams in U11s, 3 in the others)

How would your zoning argument work if all of the kids lived in the Strathmore area? Kids gravitate to clubs because their mates are there. Simply introducing a zone and limiting numbers won't guarantee a more even spread as you will always have kids walking away from poorly run clubs with the only difference is they give up the game rather than seek an alternative.

Also, nothing is forever. There is a very strong EDFL club that is seeing unprecedented drop off in numbers and quality of its juniors. As I alluded to earlier, not all of these kids are playing elsewhere, many have walked away from football.

Re your exorbitant costs, If this was so prohibitive, don't you think said club would struggle to attract numbers? I've seen how hard SFC has worked off the field over the past decade to build a solid junior framework. Clearly the costs aren't exorbitant at all if kids are being knocked back due to numbers!

Regarding registration fees and "so called" exorbitant costs I guess it's related to specific clubs/ areas. Compared house prices in say Essendon, Strathmore, Keilor compared to house prices in Airport West, Taylor's Lakes, Tullamarine, Hillside etc. Some people won't care what the registration fees are..

Yes kids should be able to play near where they reside however I do like the idea of zoning but it won't necessarily fix the problem. Some examples: No primary school in Keilor Park, ageing area in East Keilor, Tulla..

 

[The Good Oil]

No need to be facetious, the 4 teams per age group (3 at U17s and previously 16s) has been in place for years and grading ensures that it is an even playing field whether clubs have 1 or 4 teams.

Why is it difficult to accept the best run clubs max out their numbers? (Incidentally, SFC only has 4 teams in U11s, 3 in the others)

How would your zoning argument work if all of the kids lived in the Strathmore area? Kids gravitate to clubs because their mates are there. Simply introducing a zone and limiting numbers won't guarantee a more even spread as you will always have kids walking away from poorly run clubs with the only difference is they give up the game rather than seek an alternative.

Also, nothing is forever. There is a very strong EDFL club that is seeing unprecedented drop off in numbers and quality of its juniors. As I alluded to earlier, not all of these kids are playing elsewhere, many have walked away from football.

Re your exorbitant costs, If this was so prohibitive, don't you think said club would struggle to attract numbers? I've seen how hard SFC has worked off the field over the past decade to build a solid junior framework. Clearly the costs aren't exorbitant at all if kids are being knocked back due to numbers!

So based on your comments all Jacana need to do is work much harder on their junior program and they should be able to field 3 or 4 teams in each age group, charging parents $600 a kid , coached by some ex afl legends. Simple,

 

[puffpuffgivemo]

There is no doubt that abers are very well run by a great group of people. But you can't seriously think it's all down to hard work. It is clearly not a level playing field.

Absolutely I do - in excess of two decades of hard work to be exact. Struggled big time at junior level but due to the hard work of many we've been able to build and continue to evolve a program that has had some success.

 

[Passionateman]

I agree with Puff that it is hard work. How did Abers become strong in the first place? Their junior program was built up over time. Abers are also like SFC they will only take players onboard if there are spots to fill. Players who have been in the program get first preference. And most of Abers/SFC juniors have a side in the first division, so do you blame kids for wanting to go across?

Clubs need to take responsibility and setup programs with the right people involved. That goes from the committee down to the coaches. Without that you cannot move forward with your juniors. For example what kind of modern coach will have great communication skills and access to kids? PE teachers. Brett Gourley springs to mind and was able to win 5 in a row at 18s level.

Absolutely I do - in excess of two decades of hard work to be exact. Struggled big time at junior level but due to the hard work of many we've been able to build and continue to evolve a program that has had some success.

 

[Turbos mail]

I agree with Puff that it is hard work. How did Abers become strong in the first place? Their junior program was built up over time. Abers are also like SFC they will only take players onboard if there are spots to fill. Players who have been in the program get first preference. And most of Abers/SFC juniors have a side in the first division, so do you blame kids for wanting to go across?

Clubs need to take responsibility and setup programs with the right people involved. That goes from the committee down to the coaches. Without that you cannot move forward with your juniors. For example what kind of modern coach will have great communication skills and access to kids? PE teachers. Brett Gourley springs to mind and was able to win 5 in a row at 18s level.

Please mate let's tell the full truth here. So your saying if every player from 2017 re registered for 2018 and 2-3 gun juniors wanted to move to Abers or SM they would say "sorry we are all full, can't take you". That won't happen!!!!

What if someone mentioned I know 3-4 good players who are not happy at club X and if you contacted them they might be interested in coming across. Do you honestly think the club would say let's wait to see how many spots we have left..

But I do know at the real young ages they won't take young players once full up, no matter who they are. That is true..

 

[Billyblogs]

[QUOTE="Turbos mail, post: 51774401, member: 159437"

But I do know at the real young ages they won't take young players once full up, no matter who they are. That is true..[/QUOTE]

Sadly it's not turbo

 

[Passionateman]

Do you think I say this stuff to hear the sound of my own voice? What I am telling is fact! At Abers they will not get outside players until they have confirmed spots from players already at the club. It is in their POLICY!!! The fact you didn't listen to me the first time is just pure frustration. I am telling you they will not advertise for players unless they know they have spots available.

Please mate let's tell the full truth here. So your saying if every player from 2017 re registered for 2018 and 2-3 gun juniors wanted to move to Abers or SM they would say "sorry we are all full, can't take you". That won't happen!!!!

What if someone mentioned I know 3-4 good players who are not happy at club X and if you contacted them they might be interested in coming across. Do you honestly think the club would say let's wait to see how many spots we have left..

But I do know at the real young ages they won't take young players once full up, no matter who they are. That is true..

 

[Turbos mail]

[QUOTE="Turbos mail, post: 51774401, member: 159437"

But I do know at the real young ages they won't take young players once full up, no matter who they are. That is true..

Sadly it's not turbo[/QUOTE]

Maybe I'm wrong then Billy but I do know of a case when I young kid couldn't get a spot in the under 10s at SM last season due to they were full. Think they take all the older aged kids and the young ones have to wait or move on. This kid is a gun and the son of an ex AFL player. But hey this is only 1 case.

Something does need to change though for the survival and future of some clubs. Yes they have put in a salary cap & player points system however AFL vic need to also look into junior football. The majority of clubs ALL work hard to increase junior participation but it's clearly not a level playing field.

The thing about clubs having multiple junior teams is that yes they have an abundance of kids but some don't have enough coaches that know how to coach properly. And due to multiple teams they are not correctly supervised but the people at the top and therefore create issues with spectators and officials. Go around to some lower level grades and see the amount of stuff that is happening.,

- Junior club runners wearing jeans..Seriously!!
- club Boundary umpires just running on the ground trying to coach and at times abusing opposition players as young as 9.
- Coaches who have little idea of developing players but more interested in other things.

Yes it happens at the clubs with multiple teams as some clubs are only concerned with their div1 players. The rest will be fine as they pay registration.

My question is, are these clubs interested in developing ALL players or just the revenue they bring in???

 

[Star]

So based on your comments all Jacana need to do is work much harder on their junior program and they should be able to field 3 or 4 teams in each age group, charging parents $600 a kid , coached by some ex afl legends. Simple,

Is that what you gleaned from my post? Oh dear. Nowhere did I mention Jacana, "3 or 4 teams" or "$600 a kid"

Jacana has been working very hard and have made a better fist of girls footy than most as well as worked with St Francis to fill a team in every boys age group

If the "$600 a kid" comment was directed at SFC, they actually charge $340 per family as well as allocate $150 worth of raffle tickets that can be on sold.

But let's not let facts get in the way of a bit of good natured exaggeration

 

[Star]

Please mate let's tell the full truth here. So your saying if every player from 2017 re registered for 2018 and 2-3 gun juniors wanted to move to Abers or SM they would say "sorry we are all full, can't take you". That won't happen!!!!

This is exactly what would happen at SFC.

Not one existing SFC player missed out this year and unfortunately a number of new boys, including some walk up starts for U17 Div 1 were told there were no places. I know one went back, captained his existing club and absolutely dominated this year. As far as I'm concerned, this is a great result for the kid and his club.

Appreciate the truth is sometimes inconvenient but that is the truth nonetheless.

Can't speak for Abers but I'd be staggered if they let existing players go to take in new 'guns'. They are a very well oiled machine

 

[Star]

What if someone mentioned I know 3-4 good players who are not happy at club X and if you contacted them they might be interested in coming across. Do you honestly think the club would say let's wait to see how many spots we have left...

One point to remember is every year players drop off. Over summer, there will always be a few that drop off or have school/work commitments etc so there will be 3 or 4 places for new places but again, I can't believe any well run club would take a new player over an existing, less talented player. The cultural fallout could destroy the fabric of the club and see home grown players leave en masse

 

[Star]

Maybe I'm wrong then Billy but I do know of a case when I young kid couldn't get a spot in the under 10s at SM last season due to they were full. Think they take all the older aged kids and the young ones have to wait or move on. This kid is a gun and the son of an ex AFL player. But hey this is only 1 case.

Shouldn't SFC be applauded for that? In U10s (U11s now) priority goes to existing kids first then if a cut is to be made, it is for the younger kids, the theory being the younger kids will have an opportunity the following year (or two) to play at that level.

In your example, they haven't gone against policy and picked a 'son of a gun' but stuck to their edict of rewarding loyalty.

The thing about clubs having multiple junior teams is that yes they have an abundance of kids but some don't have enough coaches that know how to coach properly.

My question is, are these clubs interested in developing ALL players or just the revenue they bring in???

The better run clubs have a massive screening process for coaches - all must be accredited with minimum level 1, all must have Working With Children checks. Further, there will likely be a Coaching Co-ordinator, frequent coaches nights, coaching mentors etc.

I do agree with you Turbo that is is difficult finding good coaches for so many teams

 

[Route 59]

Sadly it's not turbo

Maybe I'm wrong then Billy but I do know of a case when I young kid couldn't get a spot in the under 10s at SM last season due to they were full. Think they take all the older aged kids and the young ones have to wait or move on. This kid is a gun and the son of an ex AFL player. But hey this is only 1 case.

Something does need to change though for the survival and future of some clubs. Yes they have put in a salary cap & player points system however AFL vic need to also look into junior football. The majority of clubs ALL work hard to increase junior participation but it's clearly not a level playing field.

The thing about clubs having multiple junior teams is that yes they have an abundance of kids but some don't have enough coaches that know how to coach properly. And due to multiple teams they are not correctly supervised but the people at the top and therefore create issues with spectators and officials. Go around to some lower level grades and see the amount of stuff that is happening.,

- Junior club runners wearing jeans..Seriously!!
- club Boundary umpires just running on the ground trying to coach and at times abusing opposition players as young as 9.
- Coaches who have little idea of developing players but more interested in other things.

Yes it happens at the clubs with multiple teams as some clubs are only concerned with their div1 players. The rest will be fine as they pay registration.

My question is, are these clubs interested in developing ALL players or just the revenue they bring in???[/QUOTE]
Come on boys are we seriously talking about 9-10 year old kids being guns? Please!

 

[MYOB]

A further point. Don't just assume kids will go to the next club if they can't get into their first choice. I have seen first hand kids simply drop out of the game altogether which is a terrible result and one no one wants.

Exactly what happened at Abers this year.
They wanted a 2nd U15 girls team and league would not allow it.
About 12 girls were told that there was not a spot for them. Only 2 went and played elsewhere.

 

[Star]

Exactly what happened at Abers this year.
They wanted a 2nd U15 girls team and league would not allow it.
About 12 girls were told that there was not a spot for them. Only 2 went and played elsewhere.

Can understand what the league is trying to do with girls but as a father of a girl that only plays to enjoy with her friends, I agree with you. Were there not a spot for her, there's no way known she would go elsewhere

 

[Turbos mail]

Shouldn't SFC be applauded for that? In U10s (U11s now) priority goes to existing kids first then if a cut is to be made, it is for the younger kids, the theory being the younger kids will have an opportunity the following year (or two) to play at that level.

In your example, they haven't gone against policy and picked a 'son of a gun' but stuck to their edict of rewarding loyalty.



The better run clubs have a massive screening process for coaches - all must be accredited with minimum level 1, all must have Working With Children checks. Further, there will likely be a Coaching Co-ordinator, frequent coaches nights, coaching mentors etc.

I do agree with you Turbo that is is difficult finding good coaches for so many teams

Cheers Star. I haven't criticised any club on this forum regarding this subject. Yes I did mention that point (well kind of applauded SM Lol) which I think Is great.

Also understand coaches need to be accredited and have WWC certification but that doesn't necessarily mean they have an idea on how junior footy should be run..
How many coaches do you see:
- yelling at umpires decisions? Do they yell at their kids during training as well or just the young umpire.
- not dealing with on ground issues and pulling kids into line..
- speaking to idiot parents yelling abuse and pulling them into line..Maybe you need to move them on?? Oh but his boy or girl is one of our best players.. who cares.. Good strong coaches will deal with it not be weak.

Yes it's happening at a number of clubs but I think clubs with more teams seem to either ignore or turn a blind eye as it's out of sight.

How do coaches, runners and other officials get suspended? Can't tell me it's 1 off. Clubs know these people but chose to ignore it..

Here's an example I heard about where a club boundary umpire got suspended. The boundary umpired called an opposition u/13 player a chicken and did the chicken dance towards him. He thought he backed away from the contest. Absolutely disgusting to say this to a young kid 11-12 year who is enjoying the sport. I won't mention the club but heard it from someone and confirmed by tribunal results..

Just my views..

 

[Star]

Cheers Star. I haven't criticised any club on this forum regarding this subject. Yes I did mention that point (well kind of applauded SM Lol) which I think Is great.

Also understand coaches need to be accredited and have WWC certification but that doesn't necessarily mean they have an idea on how junior footy should be run..

Agree. The better systems will encourage junior coaches that have assisted prior to be given the main role of a junior team. The Team Manager role is just as important. To be fair, the AFL are strong in providing a lot of resources, free ones, in education and development of coaches

How many coaches do you see: - yelling at umpires decisions? Do they yell at their kids during training as well or just the young umpire.

Agree 100%. How many do I see yelling at umpires? Too many! I was at a meeting earlier in the year when I learnt that a couple of clubs (I think MV was one) had a policy that they would not engage in any way with an umpire even things like 'ball'. Perhaps someone could clarify but its an interesting initiative

- not dealing with on ground issues and pulling kids into line..

A bug bear of mine. Kids sniping, dropping knees, sling tackling and not being pulled up for it by their own coach. To my mind if you ignore it you perpetuate a poor culture

 

[Scoopar]

Unfortunately that Marby ground isn't in the best shape and not a "real" Footy Ground as such. Great club but unfortunately for them their ground is a paddock. It would have been great for them if Parkside (WRFL) had folded and they could have took over that ground for match day footy.. Its really only a junior ground imo..

You had me until you suggested Parkside should have folded. WTF? I don't think that would have been good for anyone. Parkside was the first and last Victorian club I played for (1970 and then in 1987) and has a great history going back to 1897 which I gather pre-dates just about every EDFL club. Great club Parks and if I had my time over again, I would have played more than two years there 17 years apart. (Due to commitments to another sport I couldn't play a lot of senior footy. ) btw, I also played for Riverside Stars for 3yrs so I do have a loose attachment to Marby Park hence why I went along on Saturday. Marby Park needs to lobby the council to repair the grounds. From what I saw, the old Rivers' ground is borderline dangerous.

 

[MYOB]

Agree 100%. How many do I see yelling at umpires? Too many! I was at a meeting earlier in the year when I learnt that a couple of clubs (I think MV was one) had a policy that they would not engage in any way with an umpire even things like 'ball'. Perhaps someone could clarify but its an interesting initiative

Moonee Valley have instructed all junior coaches that there are 2 words they are not allowed to use. Baaaaaaalll and Umpirrrrrrrrrrreeee

Great iniative by the club. Hearing a coach call Baaaallll drives me crazy, especially when they are wrong 9 times out of 10.