General MFC discussion

[ponsdale]

I got a custom made Melbourne onesie, will get a good workout

Wow. Just, wow.

 

[Topkent]

The point is a lot of our midfield success is based on hypotheticals where as other teams have proven ability

I can't believe how hyped some people are getting off kids despite what we have been through

 

[Dez!]

The point is a lot of our midfield success is based on hypotheticals where as other teams have proven ability

I can't believe how hyped some people are getting off kids despite what we have been through

Why can't people get hyped? The past of the club is irrelevant now.

The kids we've got are undeniably talented and the coaching staff we've assembled have proven track records with developing players.

So what's not to get hyped about? Seems you're just being cynical for the sake of it.

 

[Topkent]

Why can't people get hyped? The past of the club is irrelevant now.

The kids we've got are undeniably talented and the coaching staff we've assembled have proven track records with developing players.

So what's not to get hyped about? Seems you're just being cynical for the sake of it.

I haven't been cynical I've been reasonable , sure there's plenty of young talent and sure there is a lot to be hopeful about, but it's all still hype and hope

We have a long way too go an I'm excited about next season but to think because we drafted some 18 year olds and added a HBF and small forward we will suddenly rocket past other teams is wrong

The fact is we have 4 b grade plus midfielders at this stage , jones cross Vince and Tyson the rest are all aiming for that but aren't there yet

 

[Dez!]

I haven't been cynical I've been reasonable , sure there's plenty of young talent and sure there is a lot to be hopeful about, but it's all still hype and hope

We have a long way too go an I'm excited about next season but to think because we drafted some 18 year olds and added a HBF and small forward we will suddenly rocket past other teams is wrong

The fact is we have 4 b grade plus midfielders at this stage , jones cross Vince and Tyson the rest are all aiming for that but aren't there yet

We could quite easily rocket up the ladder, we lost about 7 games by under 20 points that we could have won.

People just look at the 4 wins we had and ignore some of the losses we had, we aren't as bad as people seem to be making us out to be.

It's not just about the guys we just drafted this year there's also the development and natural progression of players we've already got, who just seem to be ridden off.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

A lot depends on Viney, Newton, Michie. Those are the midfielders we have who now have the years behind them to take the next step in 2015 (from being C grade to B+ players). Toumpas to a lesser extent because of injury trouble. If these guys can really come out firing next year I don't doubt that we'll have a good season provided Tyson, Jones, and Vince perform at a similar level and one or two of our newly drafted mids/Salem turns it on. There are however too many things that need to go right, and too many of these players have had nothing but injury-riddled preseason and played very few games despite being in the system a while. 2015 for mine is just a year to get 22 games into Viney, Toumpas, Newton, Michie, Salem + certain draftees, and win maybe a few more of those close encounters Dez! referred to, and 2016 then is the year to really accelerate.

 

[Ando727]

The fact is we have 4 b grade plus midfielders at this stage , jones cross Vince and Tyson the rest are all aiming for that but aren't there yet

Why is Jones not an A grade midfielder? I mean, putting the elites like Ablett aside, wouldn't Jones be something like a Sam Mitchell, for example? The main difference there is the sides they played in and the support around them. Most people call Mitchell an A grader.

I expect Tyson to push towards A grade level this year. With incremental improvement from players like Viney, and some good strategic coaching from Maccartney and Roos, I do expect us to develop into a competent midfield this year - and yes, dare I say it, not the worst midfield in the AFL by the end of the year.

By the way, nobody said anything about "rocketing past" anyone - that's your own hyperbole. You shouldn't misrepresent what others are saying in order to make your point. We are expecting incremental improvement, not rocketing.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Why is Jones not an A grade midfielder? I mean, putting the elites like Ablett aside, wouldn't Jones be something like a Sam Mitchell, for example? The main difference there is the sides they played in and the support around them. Most people call Mitchell an A grader.

I expect Tyson to push towards A grade level this year. With incremental improvement from players like Viney, and some good strategic coaching from Maccartney and Roos, I do expect us to develop into a competent midfield this year - and yes, dare I say it, not the worst midfield in the AFL by the end of the year.

By the way, nobody said anything about "rocketing past" anyone - that's your own hyperbole. You shouldn't misrepresent what others are saying in order to make your point. We are expecting incremental improvement, not rocketing.

Pretty sure he meant above B-grade - not that they're all B-grade.

And the difference between Mitchell and Jones is class - Jones is a tough nut with solid skills, Mitchell is a tough nut with brilliant skills on both feet.

 

[Dory_77]

As much as we need our mids to improve (and I agree that a lot rides on how well our young mids develop) we need all of our team to become consistent performers. Our likely no. 1 forward (at least no. 2) hasn't played a game yet; Garland has come off a mediocre season; TMac still has big disposal issues; the loss of Frawley really shortens our key back depth; our ruck stocks are still very thin, barring major improvements from Spence/Fitzy; Dawes needs to really improve his marking and influence in games still. Even if our midfield draws level with the Saints/Dogs we'll still struggle to overtake them unless we keep improving the rest of the side too.
That said, I do think we should finish higher than the Dogs next year, or at least beat them when we play them. Cooney and Griffin always had a field day against us, so without them we should have a better shot at a win.

 

[Ando727]

Pretty sure he meant above B-grade - not that they're all B-grade.

And the difference between Mitchell and Jones is class - Jones is a tough nut with solid skills, Mitchell is a tough nut with brilliant skills on both feet.

Of course, it's a lot easier to hit targets when they actually present for you. Mitchell has had this luxury for most of his career, Jones hasn't.

 

[Demon 16]

I would not blame any one of you blokes for 'putting a lid on it'.

We've been here before and it went pear shaped - hopefully this time we will make good..

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

For where we are, give me Jones over Mitchell any day. Jones has proven his ability to perform in an extremely s**t side.

 

[pure demon]

As much as we need our mids to improve (and I agree that a lot rides on how well our young mids develop) we need all of our team to become consistent performers. Our likely no. 1 forward (at least no. 2) hasn't played a game yet; Garland has come off a mediocre season; TMac still has big disposal issues; the loss of Frawley really shortens our key back depth; our ruck stocks are still very thin, barring major improvements from Spence/Fitzy; Dawes needs to really improve his marking and influence in games still. Even if our midfield draws level with the Saints/Dogs we'll still struggle to overtake them unless we keep improving the rest of the side too.
That said, I do think we should finish higher than the Dogs next year, or at least beat them when we play them. Cooney and Griffin always had a field day against us, so without them we should have a better shot at a win.

As much as everyone does not want to go there, our 2015 success depends unfairly, but quite squarely on the shoulders of young hulk hogan. Dawes is quite capable at what he does, present, chase, tackle, harrass, and take a few grabs, kick some goals. Hogans hands are far superior, and what we have been crying out for.
And as another poster somewhere said, watts needs to contribute goals and influence as a half forward, theres no more midfield or floating roles left in this side. Either use your talents to make it as a forward, or f*^k off to casey. I think roos is taking care of the midfield and defense

 

[Topkent]

Why is Jones not an A grade midfielder? I mean, putting the elites like Ablett aside, wouldn't Jones be something like a Sam Mitchell, for example? The main difference there is the sides they played in and the support around them. Most people call Mitchell an A grader.

I expect Tyson to push towards A grade level this year. With incremental improvement from players like Viney, and some good strategic coaching from Maccartney and Roos, I do expect us to develop into a competent midfield this year - and yes, dare I say it, not the worst midfield in the AFL by the end of the year.

By the way, nobody said anything about "rocketing past" anyone - that's your own hyperbole. You shouldn't misrepresent what others are saying in order to make your point. We are expecting incremental improvement, not rocketing.

Everyone is improving though, Collingwood was weakened but they still have quite alot of young draft talent on their list, The Bulldogs added there own 'Jesse Hogan' and despite losing two quality midfielders they already have guys like Libba Stringer Macrae etc who are already proven young talent , plus Bontempelli who is everything Morton looked early doors plus more
StKilda are heavily reliant on Nick Riewoldt but have drafted there own 'Jesse Hogan' as well as put some high picks into the midfield
GC and GWS have disgraceful amounts of talent in there midfields and the lions have added Beams and Christensen into theirs

We are improving but so is everyone else, The big team I have questions on is Carlton but they have Mick Malthouse who is a brilliant coach, his team should have beaten Geelong twice

We could quite easily rocket up the ladder, we lost about 7 games by under 20 points that we could have won.

People just look at the 4 wins we had and ignore some of the losses we had, we aren't as bad as people seem to be making us out to be.

It's not just about the guys we just drafted this year there's also the development and natural progression of players we've already got, who just seem to be ridden off.

We could also quite easily have lost all 4 games we won, who is writing off our current players? We will be far better if Toumpas, Watts, Salem etc become good players but until they have actually done it its all hypothetical

 

[Crusty Demon]

I think we are exactly where we finished last season. 2nd last!! I feel we are slightly ahead of St.Kilda and that is it. Everyone around us on the ladder improved their list IMO. Dogs may have taken one step back to move two steps forward in a couple of years, however, I still feel they are ahead of us in terms of talent and development. Carlton are a hard team to judge. They still have a lot of top end talent, and if some of their lower '22' type players improve , they will be vying for top 8. I don't see us pushing the top 8 next year. But I'd expect us to be pushing in 2016.

We do have talent on the list now and the right coaches in place to develop these guys. I feel more confident than ever before in our off-field structure. And we have the talented kids to develop. The ceiling for players like Watts(yes still holding out hope), Salem, Toumpas, JKH, Viney, Tyson, Kent, Gawn, Hogan, Stretch, Petracca, Brayshaw and Bullen are all extremely high! IMO, ALL these guys can become A grade players. That will not happen, however, all these guys have shown enough(yes, some on reputation and draft position), that they have natural talent and a lot of it.

Throw in Tom Mac, Howe, Trengove and even the likes of Newton, Michie, Frost and Riley and we have a list that is full of improvement and full of not just potential, but potential top end talent. I think there is plenty to get excited about. I don't think I've seen a list since the late 80's/early 90's that has had this much potential to win a flag. Yes, long way to go, and a lot of things clearly need to go right, but the list is finally a list that can take us places. We cut out a bit more dead wood at the end of next season, hopefully secure a top end talent from somewhere, and draft in some more good kids, and we have a complete list IMO. Goodwin will have a list that can go places. Seriously go places.

 

[LeverPuller]

Oh boy here we go again.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Of course, it's a lot easier to hit targets when they actually present for you. Mitchell has had this luxury for most of his career, Jones hasn't.

For where we are, give me Jones over Mitchell any day. Jones has proven his ability to perform in an extremely s**t side.

This is Sam Mitchell we're talking about?

Not Nathan Jones vs David Armitage/Dion Prestia/some other not fully proven player.

The first 6 years of Mitchell's career were in a very poor to average team - he still played well.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Either use your talents to make it as a forward, or f*^k off to casey.

This part just doesn't make sense.

Watts doesn't have any control over where the coach wants him to play.

 

[Topkent]

This is Sam Mitchell we're talking about?

Not Nathan Jones vs David Armitage/Dion Prestia/some other not fully proven player.

The first 6 years of Mitchell's career were in a very poor to average team - he still played well.

Its incredible how underrated Sam Mitchell still even is, Hawthorns second best player behind Hodge

 

[pure demon]

This part just doesn't make sense.

Watts doesn't have any control over where the coach wants him to play.

Ok before i throw my opinion around, i would like your thoughts on what jacks role is in the 2015 team?

 

[Topkent]

Ok before i throw my opinion around, i would like your thoughts on what jacks role is in the 2015 team?

Its what ever Paul Roos wants it to be, however his best work would be as a wingman who floats between forward and defence using his athleticism to create height mismatches
He kicks goals, so he can make a 17 touch game a quality one by kicking 3 as well

 

[2w2l]

HALLO DEAR MELBOURNE DEMONS SUPPORTER GUYS <3

All things being equal, how many wins are people expecting next season?

Season 2014 I thought somewhere between 6 to 8 wins was reasonable, and with Clark, Tengrove and even Hogan in the side I think we would have achieved that. The end-of-season fade out that saw us getting absolutely pantsed by GWS was awful to witness, but at that point the players were obviously spent and we couldn't expect the same impact players like Salem and JKH had early on; they (and the team) just weren't fit enough. I was really disappointed that some players didn't improve as much as I thought they would but I'm hoping players like Howe, Garland, and Viney can have "break out" years this season. Jetta's 2014 transformation was totally unexpected (Dunn's improvement as well...) so it wouldn't be all that surprising to see an average player or two ascend the ranks dramatically (Michie, Riley, Terlich..?)

Brendan McCartney is a huge get, we've got a long term coaching plan in action and a successor named, we recruited some great players- Labumblebee, Garlett which mitigate Frawley leaving and our draft picks look like players who can actually have an impact. Hopefully Hogan can get on the park and have an impact, he has afterall been in the system long enough now.

So anyway I'm tempering my expectations in 2015 and hoping for 6-8 wins, with 2016 I'd expect we're fighting for a spot in the finals right up until the end of the season.

Thoughts?

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Ok before i throw my opinion around, i would like your thoughts on what jacks role is in the 2015 team?

Mid/Forward - like what his role would have been this year if we'd had Hogan and Clark.

I don't think Roos will play him as a permanent forward.

 

[Tulip]

Why can't people get hyped? The past of the club is irrelevant now.

The kids we've got are undeniably talented and the coaching staff we've assembled have proven track records with developing players.

So what's not to get hyped about? Seems you're just being cynical for the sake of it.

The other teams have improved too is the problem. I'll wait for the results before I get excited, until then I'm just a self-deprecating member like the majority of us.

 

[Ando727]

The other teams have improved too is the problem.

People say that a lot, but is there actually any evidence for it? There is this assumption that teams are always improving, but history says that some teams improve, some teams go backwards every year. The chances of every team improving in the same year are statistically minuscule, so if Melbourne can improve at all, there's a good chance that another team will be on a downward track and that should translate into a few more wins and a modest rise up the ladder.