Strategy How do we improve our ruck stocks?

[tugga]

We wait and see what happens with the ASADA investigation first though imo. Wouldn't want to give away something only to see Bellchambers miss the next season suspended.

Also, TBC wouldn't come cheap. Would cost more than Hampson and we gave up a second rounder for him.

Yeah I did say in another thread that ASADA suspensions could count us out.
And yes Bellchambers would cost a bit. But it's like a car. You think you get a great deal and then it turns out you buy a lemon (Hampson). Then you just cut your losses, learn from it and next time make sure you do it properly.

 

[TigerImposter]

Seems a ridiculous concept but how about drafting one and actually developing our own?

Wish this was possible,the club is constantly looking for recycled players with similar failure history
POOR SKILLS
SOFT
LAZY
GOLD DIGGERS

They strike one like MILES once in about a dozen picks so they continue down the same path
More often they've had a similar or better player in their own backyard
ie. BO>>>HAMPSON based on skills plus cost plus trade lost

I'm saying not to go out looking for them,but make sure they are young and have hardly had a go at their previous club ie MILES
This is why Sydney was smart enough to chase Bo rather than Hampson.Free hit
This is where CFC were smart enough to get rid of Hampson.Free up salary cap and get a free second round pick.
Guess who the fools were in both deals?
All because we wanted a quick fix.We need to learn that nothing comes easy and hard work must be done to get results.
As you say DEVELOP YOUR OWN FIRST
If we are to chase an older experienced player please make sure he is a gun otherwise kids
People will argue Griggs Houli and Petterd have been great,but i say they fall in at least one of the above categories and there output is nothing better than if we put time into looking at MCDonough,Helbig Arnott or picking kids from the draft with similar attributes
Maric was our real success but like Bo came cheap and had a lot of upside according to fans.
Chapman and Hampson to me were poor decisions based on the length of their contracts and where they were at ,at their previous clubs.

 

[Mr Magic]

Wish this was possible,the club is constantly looking for recycled players with similar failure history
POOR SKILLS
SOFT
LAZY
GOLD DIGGERS

They strike one like MILES once in about a dozen picks so they continue down the same path
More often they've had a similar or better player in their own backyard
ie. BO>>>HAMPSON based on skills plus cost plus trade lost

I'm saying not to go out looking for them,but make sure they are young and have hardly had a go at their previous club ie MILES
This is why Sydney was smart enough to chase Bo rather than Hampson.Free hit
This is where CFC were smart enough to get rid of Hampson.Free up salary cap and get a free second round pick.
Guess who the fools were in both deals?
All because we wanted a quick fix.We need to learn that nothing comes easy and hard work must be done to get results.
As you say DEVELOP YOUR OWN FIRST
If we are to chase an older experienced player please make sure he is a gun otherwise kids
People will argue Griggs Houli and Petterd have been great,but i say they fall in at least one of the above categories and there output is nothing better than if we put time into looking at MCDonough,Helbig Arnott or picking kids from the draft with similar attributes
Maric was our real success but like Bo came cheap and had a lot of upside according to fans.
Chapman and Hampson to me were poor decisions based on the length of their contracts and where they were at ,at their previous clubs.

Have any of the people involved in some of these deals criticized from the outset been let go yet??

Clearly a few do not seem to be able to identify value at the trade.draft table. Story is getting a little old honestly!

 

[This Is Anfield]

How do we improve our ruck stocks?..........We clone Shaun Hampson!!!! Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[TigerImposter]

Have any of the people involved in some of these deals criticized from the outset been let go yet??

Clearly a few do not seem to be able to identify value at the trade.draft table. Story is getting a little old honestly!

you don,t have to get involved
we repeat ourselves constantly on this forum.go back and read wallet and frawley threads.its just cheap chat

 

[Mr Magic]

you don,t have to get involved
we repeat ourselves constantly on this forum.go back and read wallet and frawley threads.its just cheap chat

the misses are starting to mount and irritate me!

I am getting anxious some may not be the foxes I hoped!

Unlike others worrying about on-field results the lack of player improvement in some quarters is starting to worry me.

Confidence is beginning to wane in the puppet masters! Really hope our recruiters know what they are doing this time around!

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

the misses are starting to mount and irritate me!

I am getting anxious some may not be the foxes I hoped!

Unlike others worrying about on-field results the lack of player improvement in some quarters is starting to worry me.

Confidence is beginning to wane in the puppet masters! Really hope our recruiters know what they are doing this time around!

I've been having the same problem with your misses but didn't want to say anything but since you've brought it up . Chuckle chuckle

 

[Livonski]

Wish this was possible,the club is constantly looking for recycled players with similar failure history
POOR SKILLS
SOFT
LAZY
GOLD DIGGERS

They strike one like MILES once in about a dozen picks so they continue down the same path
More often they've had a similar or better player in their own backyard
ie. BO>>>HAMPSON based on skills plus cost plus trade lost

I'm saying not to go out looking for them,but make sure they are young and have hardly had a go at their previous club ie MILES
This is why Sydney was smart enough to chase Bo rather than Hampson.Free hit
This is where CFC were smart enough to get rid of Hampson.Free up salary cap and get a free second round pick.
Guess who the fools were in both deals?
All because we wanted a quick fix.We need to learn that nothing comes easy and hard work must be done to get results.
As you say DEVELOP YOUR OWN FIRST
If we are to chase an older experienced player please make sure he is a gun otherwise kids
People will argue Griggs Houli and Petterd have been great,but i say they fall in at least one of the above categories and there output is nothing better than if we put time into looking at MCDonough,Helbig Arnott or picking kids from the draft with similar attributes
Maric was our real success but like Bo came cheap and had a lot of upside according to fans.
Chapman and Hampson to me were poor decisions based on the length of their contracts and where they were at ,at their previous clubs.

Houli and Grigg were 22-23 when we got them. Young. Cheap. Houli has been very good, Grigg was our gut running link prior to this year (and yes, has gone backwards, Ellis has done this role)
Maric. Tick
Chapman went to Ess.
Petterd has been great.
Miles. Great.
Hampson looks like being a dud. Cross.
All our early draft picks have been developed very nicely.
Chaplin has had some moments but as the experienced guy down back, guess what has happened. Rance has become elite. Partly through development and partly because Chaplin has been organising defence and Rance could focus on his opponent.
Helbig, Arnot, McD, Lennon, Griffo, McBean, Elton etc have to learn the trade in the twos, and excel, or see ya...

We are developing our own and bringing in role players to fill in gaps in the meantime.

 

[nut]

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player-profile/luke-lowden

6 years of developement. Same Draft as Cotchin and 1 game

 

[Mr Magic]

I've been having the same problem with your misses but didn't want to say anything but since you've brought it up . Chuckle chuckle

Specifics would be nice, can't recall any atm!

 

[partycorolla]

Cameron Wood was a rookie selection RT.... Derickx is a listed player at the Swans.... getting a lot less than Hampson and cost them nothing to get. I just dont see what you are trying to say????
Derickx did drop a crucial mark and was unfairly treated.... hopefully we can unfairly treat Hamspon too considering he has dropped about 100 marks and caused turn over after turn over.

Is it counted as a marking attempt when it hits you in the head?

 

[_RT_]

No it wouldn't because he wouldn't of cost us a second round pick and he wouldn't be on $250k a year for 3 years. He'd have cost a rookie wage with match payments and he wouldn't be locked into a 3 year contract. How is that similar RT?

You talk up Wood as being what we should have gone for rather than trading for Hampson. Fact is Wood was beaten by 30 year old Stephenson for a spot on our list 2 years ago and was only picked up by Carlton as they were desperate for some back up given they lost Hampson and Warnock & Kreuzer are injury prone. If we picked him and didn't elevate him no doubt the questions would have come as to why the club were stupid in taking him in the first place if they weren't going to play him.

 

[nut]

You talk up Wood as being what we should have gone for rather than trading for Hampson. Fact is Wood was beaten by 30 year old Stephenson for a spot on our list 2 years ago and was only picked up by Carlton as they were desperate for some back up given they lost Hampson and Warnock & Kreuzer are injury prone. If we picked him and didn't elevate him no doubt the questions would have come as to why the club were stupid in taking him in the first place if they weren't going to play him.

Stopped reading when you said "lost" Hampson. .... If you lose something then normally you would want it back. ... Malthouse wanted Wood more than a Contracted Hamspon....

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

You talk up Wood as being what we should have gone for rather than trading for Hampson. Fact is Wood was beaten by 30 year old Stephenson for a spot on our list 2 years ago and was only picked up by Carlton as they were desperate for some back up given they lost Hampson and Warnock & Kreuzer are injury prone. If we picked him and didn't elevate him no doubt the questions would have come as to why the club were stupid in taking him in the first place if they weren't going to play him.

Your right it would of been easier if we just picked the team on form rather than hope and I'm sure with Orren playing 10 games straight instead of Hampson we'd have those 3 extra wins we are missing so badly to still he right in this season and finals a real possibility.

Thanks for making my point RT. And if like to clarify that Carlton didn't lose Hampson , they gave him away for a second round pick with 1 year to go on his contract. Still can't wipe the smiles off their faces down at Visy Park.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Is it counted as a marking attempt when it hits you in the head?

It doesn't when it Hampson does it so I can't see why we'd give Wood a cheap stat

 

[Mr Magic]

Your right it would of been easier if we just picked the team on form rather than hope and I'm sure with Orren playing 10 games straight instead of Hampson we'd have those 3 extra wins we are missing so badly to still he right in this season and finals a real possibility.

Thanks for making my point RT. And if like to clarify that Carlton didn't lose Hampson , they gave him away for a second round pick with 1 year to go on his contract. Still can't wipe the smiles off their faces down at Visy Park.

When you put it like that what is particularly stupid about the trade is they could have got him via FA in the following year for no picks!!!


MAKES the 2nd rd pick TRADE for HAMPSON totally INSANE unless your into suicide!!!

Anyone who thought RFC was ever going to win a premiership in 2014 in reality had the perception of a raving lunatic and considering FA coming up grabbing Hampson prior to 2014 was hardly appropriate even as back upl!!!

Arguably one could have got Docherty(end of 2013) and Hampson(end of 2014) by the end of this year for the same 2nd round pick!!!!

 

[TigerImposter]

When you put it like that what is particularly stupid about the trade is they could have got him via FA in the following year for no picks!!!


MAKES the 2nd rd pick TRADE for HAMPSON totally INSANE unless your into suicide!!!

Anyone who thought RFC was ever going to win a premiership in 2014 in reality had the perception of a raving lunatic and considering FA coming up grabbing Hampson prior to 2014 was hardly appropriate even as back upl!!!

Arguably one could have got Docherty(end of 2013) and Hampson(end of 2014) by the end of this year for the same 2nd round pick!!!!

You are now torturing my soul

 

[Googstar]

Seems a ridiculous concept but how about drafting one and actually developing our own? Stephenson has been ok and has certainly filled a role for us when required, Hampson, though it's early, seems destined to be the biggest flop since we got in all that dead wood post 2001 finals series, Ben Marsh, Shane Morrison, Luke Weller etc. Obviously we've taken McDream and Tyrone in recent drafts gone by, but they have been groomed and developed as key forwards as opposed to rucks. Given Derickx was mature age when we took him, I cant remember the last time we actually took a young ruck in the draft. (Dean Putt comes to mind, but people on here seem to think he was a 204cm wingmen!)
While there's merit in bringing in rucks from other clubs (Maric obviously) I think at some point we have to stop taking short cuts.

Heretic, burn him...........he wants the club to draft our own........that's sounds familiar.......

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Looks like someone at the club was reading this thread!

Ivan Soldo, 18, the cousin of Tigers cult hero Ivan Maric, has been signed as a rookie despite never playing a game of footy in his life.

The giant 204cm, 106kg state basketballer will run out for his first Australian Rules match for the Northern Knights in the TAC Cup on Saturday.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ed-by-the-tigers/story-fni5f9jb-1226998896598

 

[Dr Tigris]

We have enough ruck players in the squad. Ivan (and now Ivan mark 2), TV, Griff, Hampson and McB. But what we don't have is a complete ruck. The grand plan was to have Ivan and Hamster acting as a one-two act. Ivan crunches and does around the ground. Hampson tall rucks and just does a job on the ground. What we are seeing is that the Ivan + Hampson thing hasn't worked. Partly that is due to Hampson actually playing like a Hamster when not rucking (except when I am there live, then he plays well). I still reckon the idea of H+I works. But it requires a restructure of the team a bit, plus Hampson playing better around the ground.

On the idea that ruck work is fairly much unimportant. Firslty the best coaches disagree, so I think they might know. And secondly, when a team has a totally dominant ruck at the bounces they tend to smash the clearances and often win the game. The key thing there is that if a ruck can simply dominate the taps they can direct them as they will. That provides a huge advantage. A lot of AFL rucks simply act to nullify the dominant ruck. That is they run into them and smash them around, hit their arms etc to stop the well directed tap - without any real intent on winning clear taps themselves. To do that you need to be tall and strong. SO the problem with the argument that smaller mobile rucks can come in and dominate is that it leaves teams with tall rucks, that are expert at the tap, to control ball ups. This can lead to domination of clearances and thus easy goals. Hampson is not intended to do anything other than stop us losing the taps, and maybe give us an advantage there.

What we really want (BF members) is a ruck that wins taps and does the around the ground stuff. His name is Cox, and he is heading toward retirement. Guys that does it all are very rare and worth gold, jewels and your youngest child.

 

[Cotcho]

You cant fool me mods, im pretty sure this thread used to be called, "Imagine if we picked Cameron Wood"....well...I reckon we'd still be getting laughed at. Ruckman...errggghhhh.

 

[Calcium Man]

Who do the Knights play this weekend?

 

[caroma]

Throw Griffiths into the ruck

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Can we wait until Wood has more than one good game before we laud him?

Have people already forgotten how big a spud the guy is?

Just saying

 

[tigerz18]

one of griffiths, Vick, Elton or McBean gets turned into a Dean Cox type of player. I would have said throw good money at him to be our ruck coach, but Vick already threw enough at him on the weekend

I'm thinking McBean and Griff to become roving Ruckmen who can cover lots of ground, and, with an abundance of skills, especially McBean, would become dominant ruckmen in the mould of Coxy.