Autopsy Jack Redden Requests Trade

[Tassie4ever]

The problem is WCE have some of the worst training facilities in the league as well and look at how they're going. Its all part of the problem but I'm not sure how high on the list training facilities are as a contributing factor for what we're seeing at the lions currently.

Probably leaving myself wide open here as I haven't actually seen the WC set-up. However, I'd be willing to back Coorparoo in against any other AFL club as the worst by a street.

Set in my mind is the image of Zorko and Rich pumping away on the stationary bikes under the colour-bond garage lean-to adjoining the Coorparoo cafeteria in 30c mid-February heat.

State of the art- not really. Not even close. Pathetic is what it was- is, seeing it hasn't improved in the past decade or whatever. Pathetic and totally unbecoming of a senior AFL club.

As I've said before- it must inevitably colour the mindset of any recruit. Just WTF have I got myself into? Is this symptomatic of the Club and how it's run?

Not sure Dylan has been wheeled around Cooparoo on one of the fleeting tours of his empire but if he hasn't he should be.

The rest of the Committee doesn't have ignorance as an excuse.

 

[Roylion]

I think the key to Redden wanting to leave because of Leppitsch is actually in the article. It doesn't say there's a style or personality clash, just that redden doesn't feel like leppa rates him and doesn't see his footy improving under him.

Must be a fairly recent opinion about Leppitsch, given that he re-signed / extended his contract in March of last year. He has also played 17 out of a possible 22 senior games this season and as far as I know only missed due to injury.

 

[dlanod]

Don't see him making more somewhere else though.

I can - we have midfield depth, but Redden could be a first string midfielder in a few teams. Richmond supporters seem to think he's a fit there, but I'd definitely put Carlton and the Saints on the list, and have Port, West Coast, Melbourne and Essendon as all maybes pending further (non-forthcoming) investigation into their midfield depth.

 

[neg99]

Must be a fairly recent opinion about Leppitsch, given that he re-signed / extended his contract in March of last year. He has also played 17 out of a possible 22 senior games this season and as far as I know only missed due to injury.

I think Robbo basically overtook him in his natural role. With a fit rocky, beams, Hanley and Robinson Redden is likely to be shifted out of the guts at best.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Hollow Knight]

I absolutely can. After all this talk that the club has to be loyal to players we're now seeing just how loyal players are to the club. Most on our list have spent the last few years being paid well over their market value (its impossible for them not to under the 95% salary cap rule) and now are being asked to do more to justify their cash or take a cut and we're seeing guys wanting to head off. You can't say this with draftees, they're paid the same no matter what but guys who coming into their third contracts we're going to see their true colours show over the next 2-3 years.

Yeah, I suspect Redden might be a good example of the risk of front loaded contracts. The last year of that deal is about to kick in and you could stay for "unders", or you can change ship on a lucrative new deal.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Yeah, I suspect Redden might be a good example of the risk of front loaded contracts. The last year of that deal is about to kick un and you could play for unders, or you can change ship on a lucrative new deal.

So I take it his departure doesn't free up as much space in our cap as one might expect for a player of his calibre.

 

[Elixuh]

Probably leaving myself wide open here as I haven't actually seen the WC set-up. However, I'd be willing to back Coorparoo in against any other AFL club as the worst by a street.

Set in my mind is the image of Zorko and Rich pumping away on the stationary bikes under the colour-bond garage lean-to adjoining the Coorparoo cafeteria in 30c mid-February heat.

State of the art- not really. Not even close. Pathetic is what it was- is, seeing it hasn't improved in the past decade or whatever. Pathetic and totally unbecoming of a senior AFL club.

As I've said before- it must inevitably colour the mindset of any recruit. Just WTF have I got myself into? Is this symptomatic of the Club and how it's run?

Not sure Dylan has been wheeled around Cooparoo on one of the fleeting tours of his empire but if he hasn't he should be.

The rest of the Committee doesn't have ignorance as an excuse.

My point wasn't so much about arguing who has the worst facilities. I was simply saying that both teams have poor facilities relative to the rest of the league and that it can't be a justification when one is 2nd and one is 18th. You're probably right though. We probably have the worst facilities in the league.

 

[Hollow Knight]

So I take it his departure doesn't free up as much space in our cap as one might expect for a player of his calibre.

Hmm maybe not next year, but it would create space after that if they had originally projected him being here.

 

[Ironmonger]

Yeah, I suspect Redden might be a good example of the risk of front loaded contracts. The last year of that deal is about to kick in and you could stay for "unders", or you can change ship on a lucrative new deal.

Wow, good point. According to Swann we've been bringing payments forward from the following year for a couple of years now, so moving at this particular time might make a very big difference.

 

[Full Wingspan]

Yeah, I suspect Redden might be a good example of the risk of front loaded contracts. The last year of that deal is about to kick un and you could play for unders, or you can change ship on a lucrative new deal.

Do AFL rules allow for front (or back) loading salary cap wise, but make cash payments different to their "salary cap contribution"? E.g. Player X gets $1 million to be paid over two years, however, we contribute $750k in year one and $250k in year two towards the cap.

I believe that we as supporters understate the potential variable salaries paid to players, that is, payment for the amount of games played and the various club awards on offer at season's end (e.g. Best & Fairest placing).

I remember Browny talking about his 2006 season in one of his interviews at the beginning of the year, where he was highly sought after by the Pies. After playing only 10 games due to a bad case of OP midway during the year, Browny was dominating just about every individual award. Subsequently, the club "created" an award rewarding the player with the highest average votes per game (as opposed to total votes in the season). This was clearly a negotiated outcome with the club in order to keep Jonno from joining the Pies.

As for Redden, I would not be adverse to an offer with generous performance based incentives (outside of the usual awards) to be paid to Redden if it means he'll stay. Also will allow him to perhaps give extra effort to the overall cause. However, any decent player manager is going to secure as much safety salary-wise for their player(s) as possible, and that comes in the form of largely fixed contracts.

I would imagine that the (official) rule would be something like "any cash outflows of player payments in a calendar year shall count towards the Total Player Payments."

As for Rockliff's comments today about trying to persuade Redden from leaving, it was pretty fascinating, yet also disturbing reading. Clearly it appears he is at odds with Leppa, and I am not surprised that these "truth talks" have occured in recent times - and they need to.

I just feel that perhaps we have become too focused on the whole "family club" culture that when a player actually receives constructive or critical feedback, they are taking it to heart.

At the end of the day, we need to entrench a culture that is successful, and with that comes the utmost professionalism. Having a "happy" club is almost equally important, but if you cannot handle the truth in an industry as demanding as football's you shouldn't be playing.

If Leppa has the backing of The skipper in Rocky (Reddo's best mate), the CEO and Matthews, then that's good enough for me.

Redden should ask some of the ex-Geelong (and even our own) premiership champions about what sacrifices they made in order to ensure their team reached the ultimate glory. No wonder half of them are happy to play a few more seasons elsewhere for the extra coin; they would have taken significant unders to hold their team together throughout their premiership years. None of them thought that they were bigger than the club.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Wow, good point. According to Swann we've been bringing payments forward from the following year for a couple of years now, so moving at this particular time might make a very big difference.

I'm a bit slow. Is this because, as TBD suggests, he could revert to full market salary once his current contract ends?

 

[Ironmonger]

I'm a bit slow. Is this because, as TBD suggests, he could revert to full market salary once his current contract ends?

I took it to mean that your 2014-2016 contract might entitle you to $500k, $300k, and $100k respectively, but your new club might offer you $300k each season from 2016 to 2018. Meaning you get an extra $200k for shifting clubs prior to 2015, that you wouldn't get if you left at the end of 2016.

Another thought: Redden may else have ended up as an unrestricted free agent like James Frawley, which is probably less desirable for us.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I took it to mean that your 2014-2016 contract might entitle you to $500k, $300k, and $100k respectively, but your new club might offer you $300k each season from 2016 to 2018. Meaning you get an extra $200k for shifting clubs prior to 2015, that you wouldn't get if you left at the end of 2016.

Another thought: Redden may else have ended up as an unrestricted free agent like James Frawley, which is probably less desirable for us.

In other words, however you look at it, probably better for player and club if he goes this year.

 

[Full Wingspan]

I'm a bit slow. Is this because, as TBD suggests, he could revert to full market salary once his current contract ends?

He may not warrant a pay rise based on current form and standing at the club for his next contract at Lions beyond 2016.

Redden has already received the juicy front end of his current deal, now that it's going to drop, he decides to seek a trade and earn something closer to market at another club (despite our generosity in the first years of his deal) for season 2016.

 

[Ironmonger]

In other words, however you look at it, probably better for player and club if he goes this year.

Better for player, certainly. We might not lose the right to match an offer this way, but we burn $200k that might have gone elsewhere.

Maybe it gives us a slightly stronger negotiating position at the trade table, as we can argue we're effectively subsidising the first year of his contract at the new club, but I don't think that'll get us very far.

 

[neg99]

Do AFL rules allow for front (or back) loading salary cap wise, but make cash payments different to their "salary cap contribution"? E.g. Player X gets $1 million to be paid over two years, however, we contribute $750k in year one and $250k in year two towards the cap.

I believe that we as supporters understate the potential variable salaries paid to players, that is, payment for the amount of games played and the various club awards on offer at season's end (e.g. Best & Fairest placing).

I remember Browny talking about his 2006 season in one of his interviews at the beginning of the year, where he was highly sought after by the Pies. After playing only 10 games due to a bad case of OP midway during the year, Browny was dominating just about every individual award. Subsequently, the club "created" an award rewarding the player with the highest average votes per game (as opposed to total votes in the season). This was clearly a negotiated outcome with the club in order to keep Jonno from joining the Pies.

As for Redden, I would not be adverse to an offer with generous performance based incentives (outside of the usual awards) to be paid to Redden if it means he'll stay. Also will allow him to perhaps give extra effort to the overall cause. However, any decent player manager is going to secure as much safety salary-wise for their player(s) as possible, and that comes in the form of largely fixed contracts.

I would imagine that the (official) rule would be something like "any cash outflows of player payments in a calendar year shall count towards the Total Player Payments."

As for Rockliff's comments today about trying to persuade Redden from leaving, it was pretty fascinating, yet also disturbing reading. Clearly it appears he is at odds with Leppa, and I am not surprised that these "truth talks" have occured in recent times - and they need to.

I just feel that perhaps we have become too focused on the whole "family club" culture that when a player actually receives constructive or critical feedback, they are taking it to heart.

At the end of the day, we need to entrench a culture that is successful, and with that comes the utmost professionalism. Having a "happy" club is almost equally important, but if you cannot handle the truth in an industry as demanding as football's you shouldn't be playing.

If Leppa has the backing of The skipper in Rocky (Reddo's best mate), the CEO and Matthews, then that's good enough for me.

Redden should ask some of the ex-Geelong (and even our own) premiership champions about what sacrifices they made in order to ensure their team reached the ultimate glory. No wonder half of them are happy to play a few more seasons elsewhere for the extra coin; they would have taken significant unders to hold their team together throughout their premiership years. None of them thought that they were bigger than the club.

The interview with Swabb also clearly stated things had improved since the last heart to heart, not declined. Based on what's out in the media so far it seems to be a footy disagreement, not a personality one.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[cotter101]

I think Redden is a good example of how stats can be deceptive. He rarely impacts the game, even with those possessions. I would compare him in this regard with Robinson who I think has surprised everyone with how impactful he has been with what I suspect might be similar or not substantially better stats.

I think Redden is a good honest inside ball winner. I've never thought he'd become elite but he's a player every side would love to have. He's not flashy by any means but he can be quite clever if you watch him closely. We can cover his loss, but it's never good having experienced midfielders walk out on you. Especially when we need experience.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I think Redden is a good honest inside ball winner. I've never thought he'd become elite but he's a player every side would love to have. He's not flashy by any means but he can be quite clever if you watch him closely. We can cover his loss, but it's never good having experienced midfielders walk out on you. Especially when we need experience.

I agree and think the loss of his experience is the biggest negative. But a guy like Bell or someone else might fill the void to a degree.

 

[carnthemlions]

I agree and think the loss of his experience is the biggest negative. But a guy like Bell or someone else might fill the void to a degree.

If we do lose him, getting anything less than a player of similar quality/experience back(directly or indirectly) would be a significant loss. A pick somewhere from 15-20ish is all well and good, but in all likelihood we will have not trouble getting picks to pay for Keays and Hipwood anyway. At some point you have to wonder when "getting younger" becomes the end rather than the means.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

watched bell over the last few weeks and all I have seen are helicopters

 

[Big Sauce 21]

I'm only worried because Rockliff is worried

very concerning, Tom would know others are talking about it

 

[Bucking Beads]

The toughest thing about this is that our new draftees will be seeing all this type of thing and hoping that we don't pick him. Even the academy kids are probably hoping we don't take them. While this might be just Reddo wanting too much $ and not liking being told how it is, it will still create a bad look for any players possibly headed our way.

 

[LionKing]

“His issues are with other things within the footy club.”

Bloody hell, what issues is Rockliff alluding to here??

 

[Cleric]

Danger leaving, Thompson on last legs, VB a spud... your premiership window is open and if you lose Danger and Thompson in a space of 12 months then it might be forever tempting but not delivering the silverware.

We have plenty of inside Mids sitting in our reserveds at the moment.
Brad Crouch has to come back in, CEY hasnt been able to break back into the team and Mitch Grigg still cant get back in.
Not really sure Redden is the best fit for us. Port would be better I think.

 

[Kevvo]

“His issues are with other things within the footy club.”

Bloody hell, what issues is Rockliff alluding to here??

I watched the interview with Rocky and it really didn't come across as being this ominous. At the beginning of the interview Rocky suggests he's (at least partly) impatient for success, and it could well be that Jack just doesn't agree with Leppa's view on where he fits into things.
There's clearly a lot of frustration at the club, but I'm not convinced it is a fundamental cultural problem like it seemed to be when all of those kids left. I suspect it may be a perfect storm of:

• angst/uncertainty about our moves for a proper rebuild, with both players and backroom staff getting moved on
• a bad year of results
• a few players that we would've been moving on anyway.

Finals looks a little further off than it did before, and maybe some players are getting jumpy. I'm pretty confident that our list is capable of a lot more wins next year, and I'd say that will change the tone of things a lot.