Opinion North Melbourne's best 22
- Thread starter Lavy_Panther
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- #352
Every club could make an equivalent claim.
Wood and Dumont are the only ones in the group who consistently posted quality VFL performances.
kangaspurs
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Why are so many people interested in putting our leading goalkicker in, what, 5 of the last 7 years? at CHB. Petrie plays FF every day of the week IMO.
Garner had a very strong year first up in the VFL as far as i can recall. In the bests 5 or 6 times.
You could say the same about levi for the first 5 years. They have the talent - the want/attitude will define if they make it.
Cunners is the greatest example of this - his attitude was always first class.
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- #356
Thought he had a couple of crunch kick cameos. Hope you're correct as I wouldn't have rated his 2013 VFL season in the same bracket as Dumont and Wood's 2014.
GarnerSmash
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Nor would I have. He was good, but not as consistent as the other two lads.
Just looked it up. In the bests twice and got over 20 touches once, only once over 1 goal in a game.
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- #358
Probably comes down to definition of talent.
I don't think Garner and McKenzie have shown enough all-round game consistently in the VFL to say they have long-term AFL talent EVEN if they apply themselves fully.
Like the above posts though, I hope they do.
Sugar2Sideshow
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I'm not sure why you would have basti as sub though. One of his best attributes is his running ability, which you sacrifice if you bench him for 3/4 of the game. I don't think you just take your 22nd best player and put him as sub. You need someone who is suited to the role. Cooney may be ideal if not able to run out games. Adams did some great work as sub, but I feel others have gone past him.
Thought it was more than twice. First was on debut as well.
Our best 22 = our Prelim team with the following changes:
OUT: Greenwood, Jacobs, Black
IN: Cooney (TBC), Higgins, Waite
Edit: forgot Lachie, chuck him in for Firrito or a most likely injured Narni.
OUT: Greenwood, Jacobs, Black
IN: Cooney (TBC), Higgins, Waite
Edit: forgot Lachie, chuck him in for Firrito or a most likely injured Narni.
TennisPlayerAndy
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The problem for me is Waite/Petrie are too similar. Black is a point of difference when fully fit.
Tend to agree.
2013 Black easily replaces Waite, and hopefully after surgery and a full pre-season he regains that form.
However IMO we were definitely carrying him last season, and on that form Waite takes his spot
chaelsonnen
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Garner will make it so long as he can stay healthy. Has the tools and tenacity.
....Can't say the same for McKenzie, very close to being a bust for mine.
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- #365
Garner is a freak show.
Can do some seriously cray cray business on the field. And. Can. Tackle.
Even last year he took a ridiculous hanger in his only game. Kid is special and should be persisted with.
Cooney or no Cooney, we have a strong squad.
Can do some seriously cray cray business on the field. And. Can. Tackle.
Even last year he took a ridiculous hanger in his only game. Kid is special and should be persisted with.
Cooney or no Cooney, we have a strong squad.
Saintly31
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Whilst a fair point on where they are now in terms of (obviously) outside best 22 I think it best to treat them very differently going forward on talent.
McKenzie is a one trick pony. Does an impressive kick sure, and then goes to a contest wearing his skirt and plays footy like it's basketball. Very frustrating, even worse than Bastinac.
Garner is Turner like in his approach, and I don't believe he is the type where stats will ever show actual impact despite his (maybe) lack of pure talent.
Ben Brown is similar compared to Robbie Tarrant - one has second, third efforts and hands in play, tackling etc, whilst the other either marks or he is invisible. I am all for the type of player who does the 1%s and if they get plenty of it even better.
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- #367
My point was disagreeing with the view that you could take the premise that McKenzie and Garner have long term AFL talent to the bank.
Both have elements of a good AFL player but both have limitations. Actually they are basically an inverse of each other.
It wasn't a commentary on how I personally rate player attributes.
Agree with your appraisal of the players and emphasis on effort/impact but obviously the club sometimes prioritises inherent potential or other qualities over workrate.
Otherwise Greenback would still be at Arden Street and Bastinac would be shooting out ping pongs for money in a Bangkok bar.
Saintly31
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No way either of them can be certain to make it KC - totally agree on that (I also put Jacobs in that bracket despite the popularity vote on here that he is Voss mark II if he "finally plays in his natural position")
Both have limitations for sure, but I'd take the 100% trier over the softie any day of the week - especially in big games when more pressure is applied.
Greenwood always showed this over Bastinac for example, and for former mine was always very under-appreciated whilst we are stuck with the flaky and front-running latter.
So yes, I completely agree with you on that point so for mine Garner is my pick by a long way if I had to choose between the two (not that we are of course)
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- #369
Slightly off-topic but McKenzie strikes me as another Robbie Tarrant.
When we drafted Robbie, word was who we really wanted was Cyril and he almost got to our pick.
When we got McKenzie, I'm guessing we'd have been well aware of Brandon Ellis considering he used to hang around Arden Street (family connections) and he had a really nice combination of grunt and skill.
In both instances our preferred target got painfully close to our pick but what we ended up with someone was never going to be quite at the same level.
So........ for round 1 next year, assuming all fit and healthy:
Hansen Thompson Wright
Atley Grima Mcdonald
Wells Swallow Boomer
Higgins Petrie Black
Brown Waite L.T
Goldy Cunners Gibson
NDS Ziebell Turner (Bastinac)
First defender in = Spud
First mid in = Dumont (or Bas on the ground)
Forward in = Wood
Issues
Hansen Thompson Wright
Atley Grima Mcdonald
Wells Swallow Boomer
Higgins Petrie Black
Brown Waite L.T
Goldy Cunners Gibson
NDS Ziebell Turner (Bastinac)
First defender in = Spud
First mid in = Dumont (or Bas on the ground)
Forward in = Wood
Issues
- Too top heavy up forward?
- Overall lack of speed?
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Not bad. Okay, first thing is who's missing in addition to Spud, Froggy, Wood? (Jmac, BJ, Patch, Mullett, BMac, Tippett, Tarrant). Fair depth there, and arguably Jmac and Patch are best 22, with BJ and Mullett next best.
Too top heavy up forward? Many think the inclusion of the 'four talls' in the forward line is one too many. But when you think about Black's role, he plays "very high", roaming up to the wings and the centre of the ground to provide a marking option. He's not even quite the third tall in that respect. A lot of his value is in providing a marking option on the way into or out of the forward line, and he's a good I50 player. I don't mind it, so long as he and the mids work hard to provide defensive pressure when the opposition are trying to rebound from inside their defensive 50.
Lack of speed? Yes, it does come to mind. Less so offensively as we've got that 'structured offence' working pretty well I think. It's more the combination of gut-running and acceleration and speed to pressure the ball carrier that concerns me. Those that provide it: Turner, LMac, Atley and, as per EF, Gibson. The likes of JZ, Spitta and Cunners do it in close, but the ability to provide good closing speed on the ball carrier is relatively thin. This is made to look even more so when the likes of Wellsy and NDS amble around and if Boomer drops his head, defensively. (He's been pretty good over the past 3 years, just not fully consistent imo). Jmac becomes relevant here, in spite of his tackling efficiency.
A Cyril Rioli type would be nice. Can we get one of these, please?
Yeah forgot Jmac. But can't see both he and Wright getting a game.
Not much we can do about the lack of speed in the team other than bring in Mullett. But then he could only replace Bastinac, wright/jmac, or a Gibbo type play (which obviously wont happen), or drop a tall forward.
Who cares about his VFL form guys. That 1 AFL game with 16 touches V Pies was more than enough for me.
He was hungry then so imagine how hungry he will be after 12 months out.
A monster awaits and nothing will stop him in 2015 when fit.
If Atley pushes into the midfield rotation, Jmac will slid into defence.
Sure but who does atley push out of the middle
