Drugs/doping in AFL

[NarklesHelmet]

You get perfectly legitimate things through injection too you know. I knew a guy who played professional football (soccer) who got shots for some sort of vitamin deficiency he had.
But yes I can't argue that injections and the obvious lack of governance around them, would be an issue for most people.

No doubt, but I think the problem with these injections was that they were systematic, almost team-wide and used substances that were banned, others not for human use and, worst of all, completely undocumented. It is unprecedented what Essendon have done.

 

[VDS66]

At best it was a massive failure in duty of care to players if they didn't know. At worst if the players bought in then they are cheats if they used illegal substances. If it looks like sh1t, smells like sh1t then it's sh1t.

 

[sauce_head]

Y

At best it was a massive failure in duty of care to players if they didn't know. At worst if the players bought in then they are cheats if they used illegal substances. If it looks like sh1t, smells like sh1t then it's sh1t.

you mean if on the balance of probability it's s**t...

 

[ike2112]

No doubt, but I think the problem with these injections was that they were systematic, almost team-wide and used substances that were banned, others not for human use and, worst of all, completely undocumented. It is unprecedented what Essendon have done.

Yes absolutely its outrageous. Just the players didnt know it was as bad as that. They should however have probably sussed something wasnt right. I was just pointing out that just getting an injection alone isn't a huge red flag on it's own. Its the repetition, and lack of suitable answers to questions etc that would be a worry.
If I was in that situation I can honestly say I'd probably take the first one or two and only then start to get worried.
Most will believe that's naive, and I'd agree, but I know the environment where you take what you're given and I doubt very much, in that situation, I'd outright shun it right away.

 

[sauce_head]

Finally an article that explains the positions, prospects and where this sits in the grander scale of the purpose of the legislation, accurately.

I say this from a professional perspective:
http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...art-of-federal-court-case-20140626-zsl6w.html

 

[Sunshine Saint]

More than enough red flags for the players. Not just the incredible volume of injections, but being taken across the road to the bowling club, or elsewhere off site for injections, plus the fact that the club doctor was not giving them, should have been more than enough warning to the players. But if you choose to ignore these red flags, as you believe it is giving you an advantage, then you get no leniency, or sympathy, when it all comes tumbling down.

 

[VDS66]

Y

you mean if on the balance of probability it's s**t...

Unless you launch a High Court challenge to convince people that it's actually chocolate.

 

[Sheeza69]

No doubt, but I think the problem with these injections was that they were systematic, almost team-wide and used substances that were banned, others not for human use and, worst of all, completely undocumented. It is unprecedented what Essendon have done.

One question I've got for James Hird is, how do you respond to this statement you made in early April 2013 ""I just can't wait to get in and talk to ASADA and the AFL and once I've got in and spoken to ASADA and the AFL, I can't wait to clear my name."

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-04-11/hird-given-drug-report

Your recent court action attempting to dismiss the process as illegal, sits in complete contrast to your earlier statement..Got something to hide Jimmy have we..!

 

[Sheeza69]

ASADA now have in possession, an interview by The Age's Nick McKenzie with Dank discussing the use of Thymosin Beta-4 at Essendon..


ASADA ups ante on Essendon

EXCLUSIVE
The Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority has moved to bolster its case against Essendon players – and Stephen Dank – by seizing an interview where the biochemist discussed the use of banned drug Thymosin Beta-4 at the AFL club.
Fairfax Media can reveal that in recent days ASADA has sought, and obtained, fresh evidence to help corroborate the serious allegation it delivered in writing last month to 34 former and current AFL players.
In show-cause notices, the national anti-doping agency outlined its belief that 34 footballers used Thymosin Beta-4 in a supplements regime conducted largely in secret, and run by Dank, in 2011/12.

Despite demands made in the Federal Court, by Essendon and exiled coach James Hird, that ASADA should halt anti-doping proceedings against the Bombers, it has emerged the drug authority has not been deterred from gathering further evidence.
ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt issued a disclosure notice to Fairfax journalist Nick McKenzie last week, demanding that an on-record interview he conducted with Dank in April, 2013, be handed over.
ASADA’s wide-ranging powers can compel individuals to produce information that would assist the national anti-doping authority with investigations. Refusal to cooperate can incur fines of $5100 per day.

A recording of the on-record portion of the interview where Dank discussed the “immune system” benefits of Thymosin Beta 4 was released to the anti-doping authority this week. A transcript of the on-record discussion was also provided.
In the disclosure notice McDevitt demanded “any and all recordings and notes of conversations had with Mr Stephen Dank in relation to his purported use of Thymosin Beta-4 and, or Thymomodulin at Essendon Football Club in 2010”. No off-the-record material has been passed on to ASADA.
Dank stated in the Fairfax interview: “…There is good data – very good data – that supports Thymosin Beta 4 in the immune system.” Asked about how Thymosin Beta-4 might have helped Essendon players, he said: “Often times the ability to back up next week is decreased by the hit on the immune system.”
Dank explained the dosage level of Thymosin Beta-4 he used at Essendon, but asked that those details not be published. When he was informed that ASADA had just released that Thymosin Beta 4 was prohibited for athletes, Dank said: “Well, that must have just only come in this year and I will get someone to speak to ASADA about that. That's just mind-blowing.”


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-ups-ante-on-essendon-20140704-zswsf.html#ixzz36Vqj79tr

 

[TheLastEmperor]

I've been waiting for that interview/article to be obtained by ASADA.

 

[Sheeza69]

I've been waiting for that interview/article to be obtained by ASADA.

The Bombers should've cut their losses & accepted 6 months..
Going to be difficult now for the Bombers to avoid a suspension..There's no smoking gun, just an accumulation of evidence being gathered..
We can see why Essendon & Hird have been shitting themselves, & looking for an escape route via a legal technicality..
This could lead to harsher penalties being dished out..

 

[sauce_head]

I've been waiting for that interview/article to be obtained by ASADA.

Uh-oh:
The fact ASADA is continuing to gather evidence also suggests it is preparing to pursue the cases it has made against players and Dank regardless of the Federal Court ruling on the validity of the probe it conducted with the AFL last year.

Uh-oh.....:
With show-cause notices issued, however, players are now in the position where they must prove they did not use Thymosin Beta-4.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You get perfectly legitimate things through injection too you know. I knew a guy who played professional football (soccer) who got shots for some sort of vitamin deficiency he had.
But yes I can't argue that injections and the obvious lack of governance around them, would be an issue for most people.

And I bet your soccer playing mate knew exactly what it was and why he was taking it.
Most people have a fair idea about what they are getting injected with and why. If you were a professional athlete, Its not a big deal the get the doctor to write down the name of the substance , then type it into google later.

 

[Kildonan]

And I bet your soccer playing mate knew exactly what it was and why he was taking it.
Most people have a fair idea about what they are getting injected with and why. If you were a professional athlete, Its not a big deal the get the doctor to write down the name of the substance , then type it into google later.

This - there would be a medical record detailing exactly what was injected and the amount. Then there would have been follow-up pathology to see if his levels had responded to the treatment. Thereby it would have been firstly a deficiency that was discovered, the treatment would have been an established remedy given in a controlled, targeted and medically pertinent dose and then tested to determine if it was effective. The risks of the treatment (safety) would been assessed through extensive trials in the past and any side effects would be known and looked for. For every step of the process there would have been documentation - which may well still be accessible in 20+ years time.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If you did your ACL and someone suggested that you use some new repair technique that the mad inventor down the road had developed, no-one would go near it. ( Even the Lars treatment remains controversial ). Yet people think its acceptable to "experiment " with non approved drugs.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Just when you think that Essendon could not be any more laughable, they are. Essendon are alleging that the AFL breached their duty of care, because they failed to tell them that they suspected that they may be cheating. Yes they are arguing that they should be let off all charges, as the AFL did not tell them that they had sent samples off to Europe, to see if they could prove they were cheating.

Do judges laugh at this, or has this sort of rubbish, some sort of legal chance to getting them off on a technicality? Irrespective they are clearly clutching at straws and are doing every legal move possible to actually hide the fact that they ran an illegal doping program on their players.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...its-duty-of-care/story-fnca0u4y-1226977097705

THE AFL is accused of breaching its duty of care to Essendon players by failing to advise the club of suspicions held in 2012 that its footballers were possibly being administered banned peptides.

The revelation by AFL medical director Peter Harcourt that blood samples from Essendon players were sent to a European lab for peptide screening well before the “blackest day in Australian sport’’ prompted fresh questions about whether the league should have done more to prevent the doping scandal.

Essendon has admitted its failings of governance contributed to footballers being injected with exotic and experimental substances. Club chairman Paul Little yesterday said the AFL, which approved and paid for the irregular drug testing in 2012, had a shared duty of care.

“We as a club knew nothing about the decision to take the unusual step of sending these samples off,’’ Little said. “The need for doing that, the decision to do it, what they were testing for, how many samples; we have got none of that information.

“It is fair to say we have some real reservations about duty of care, about a whole raft of issues.’’

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

"So you see Officer, I put it to you that by observing me selling drugs to children for the last week without arrest, you've put those child's lives in danger, and so it is you who should be answering the questions....howzat?!"

 

[sauce_head]

It wouldn't save Essendon or Hird, it just may mean there is contributory negligence by the AFL when it comes to damages. It wouldn't save the players from bans either. At least that is my understanding.

Essendon are of course trying to play a PR game and blame everybody else, and fatigue others to wrapping it up without due process. It's all pretty transparent.

 

[VDS66]

THE AFL is accused of breaching its duty of care to Essendon players by failing to advise the club of suspicions held in 2012 that its footballers were possibly being administered banned peptides.

Really? You gotta be kidding me. So it was all the AFL's fault yeah?

So what did Hird breach when he sat down with ASADA, was warned but continued anyway?

#farkmedrunk

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Really? You gotta be kidding me. So it was all the AFL's fault yeah?

So what did Hird breach when he sat down with ASADA, was warned but continued anyway?

#farkmedrunk

Absolutely amazing and if successful surely opens up entire new avenues for every criminal and law breaker, that they should be released or found not guilty, as society is somehow responsible for their wrong doing.

Its not just the Golden Boy, but the whole Essendon club and majority of their fan base, that are entirely failing to take responsibility for their actions. They are desperately looking for loopholes etc. The karma moment will be when they continue to fight this, miss the 6 month suspension offer and have players end up with 2 year terms.

Will then they accept responsibility? Or will it be as we all suspect, endure more of the same chest beating and stories of how everyone else is responsible for their drug program?

 

[Persevering Saint]

Entitlement syndrome at its highest. Reminds me of the student who asked for an extension because he'd developed an acute computer-game addiction last year (he didn't get it).

 

[VDS66]

I actually know 1 supporter who has cancelled their membership... wants Hird gone and players to be made accountable.

She doubts it will happen because the club doesn't have the balls to deal with Hird due to the large sums of money the Hird family have tipped into the club over the generations.

I hope they cop it hard for no other reason than their arrogance in this matter.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-warns-court-case-wont-stop-essendon-showcause-notices-20140711-zt4qq.html

Now its starting to get very interesting. ASADA saying that the court action will have no affect on them at all, irrespective of the result. If they are not allowed to use the information from the case, they can then still reissue notices and get it without any doubt legally.

"Even if ASADA obtained information unlawfully in the course of the joint investigation (which is denied), the grant of relief should be refused on discretionary grounds because ASADA could lawfully obtain all the exact same information (again) by the issue of disclosure notices under Division 3.4B of the NAD Scheme, and then issue fresh show-cause notices to the EFC players," the document said.

The Essendon legal circus is just that a circus. It is to placate players, sponsors, members, but will have no affect at all on the outcome. It appears that ASADA under ex Federal Policeman Ben McDevitt aren't going to be swayed at all, by the legal, media or other pressures being applied. Long holidays ahead for all.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-warns-court-case-wont-stop-essendon-showcause-notices-20140711-zt4qq.html

Now its starting to get very interesting. ASADA saying that the court action will have no affect on them at all, irrespective of the result. If they are not allowed to use the information from the case, they can then still reissue notices and get it without any doubt legally.

"Even if ASADA obtained information unlawfully in the course of the joint investigation (which is denied), the grant of relief should be refused on discretionary grounds because ASADA could lawfully obtain all the exact same information (again) by the issue of disclosure notices under Division 3.4B of the NAD Scheme, and then issue fresh show-cause notices to the EFC players," the document said.

The Essendon legal circus is just that a circus. It is to placate players, sponsors, members, but will have no affect at all on the outcome. It appears that ASADA under ex Federal Policeman Ben McDevitt aren't going to be swayed at all, by the legal, media or other pressures being applied. Long holidays ahead for all.

Essendon gave them nothing. Since then Asada ALONE have been investigating the chemists, clinics, drug suppliers.

 

[sauce_head]

This was always going to be the case. Essendon's plan is a PR offensive, its their only hope. Unfortunately the collateral is their players and tier supporters. And they are not going to win the PR BATTLE. THe under represented majority of people want to see justice served and are not weary of an in estivation being undertaken rigorously and comprehensively, they are weary if Essendon's leaked information and mud slinging and shifting of responsibility everywhere else but to themselves.