Drugs/doping in AFL

[STK2020]

Im willing to bet my left nut , Essendon will get a watered down Cronulla Sharks type deal .

 

[sauce_head]

Im willing to bet my left nut , Essendon will get a watered down Cronulla Sharks type deal .

I agree. How can a suspension be backdated when their has been no actually change in behaviour due to the backdated suspension? It's very unclear to me how this is possible.

 

[Nutsngum]

I want to see the players get 6 months. By the rules in place they should get 2 years, and Saad got 18month, but I think it needs to be 6 genuine months out.
In reality my concern is they get 2 years backdated, they 'vacate' results from that time, and are cleared to play by March.

The only way this would work is if they had won a premiership in that time. Otherwise its a complete bust as there is literally no punishment for wiping results of a regular season.

 

[By a Point]

My dear old sweet Grandmother had a saying about cheats.
She used to say " I hope they throw the F#@*! $g book at you you F@#$*&g pack of cheating bastards".

But Granny did have Tourettes Syndrome so shes probably not a great source for quotes

She wasn't Andy Murray's first girlfriend?

 

[Persevering Saint]

A backdate wouldn't surprise me, as it would only further confirm the spineless, backward approach to retribution shown by all concerned.

 

[ike2112]

The only way this would work is if they had won a premiership in that time. Otherwise its a complete bust as there is literally no punishment for wiping results of a regular season.

Yet it has been done in cycling.
People vacate results from a period in the past where they actually didn't win anything.
Examples of it in athletics too.

I don't know where the talk of changing behaviour comes from. You can have a suspension backdated to the point in time you were believed to have been cheating. Had Lance Armstrong been honest in 2012, he'd have had all his results taken off him in the past but could ride the next day, his backdated ban would have already been served. He really only got a lifetime ban because he's an absolute prick.

 

[ike2112]

It really is difficult to find a way to give the players a reasonable punishment whilst not adversely affecting the competition.

 

[Baldur]

It really is difficult to find a way to give the players a reasonable punishment whilst not adversely affecting the competition.

The aim from ASADA's and WADA's point of view should be to affect the competition, otherwise the people running the competition do not take the issue seriously enough.

 

[By a Point]

It really is difficult to find a way to give the players a reasonable punishment whilst not adversely affecting the competition.

I feel a moderate amount of sympathy for the players, then I think of Ahmed Saad. The players deserve at least 18 months. They cannot receive any credit for cooperation because they didn't cooperate. I have less than zero sympathy for EFC. The behaviour has been appalling and Hird is an embarrassment for the game. Essendon should suffer for a decade.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

It really is difficult to find a way to give the players a reasonable punishment whilst not adversely affecting the competition.

TBH because we are going to finish down the wrong end of the ladder again regardless.
I dont really care if the equality of the draw is a bit compromised next yr.
id just rather see Ess cop their fair whack like Saad had to.
Im not too worried if Richmond finish 9th again on percentage because of an unfair advantage of some other team playing a weakened Bombers side.
Just punish them and to hell with the consequences

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

I dont get how you can get time served backdated if you didnt do any time for the crime.. figureitivly speaking that is. Infact the whole time spent if it is to be so called back dated was spent contesting the crime in court while the players kept doing their jobs.. that just doesnt make any sense.

 

[Stewart66]

Essendon Football Club confidence:

• Confident that we have done nothing wrong and that the AFL will find no wrong doing
• Confident that this was entirely the work of a rogue employee (Dank) and no one else at Essendon
• Confident that by employing a public relations company and feeding their media contacts, they could control the story and get off with no sanctions at all
• Confident that in the AFL / ASADA investigation the club will have been found to have done no wrong
• Confident that their sun god, James Hird, could not have ever possibly done wrong
• Confident that when they are their day in court and all will be revealed clearing them of all accusations
• Confident that even if the AFL / ASADA believe they have conducted an illegal doping / supplements program, there is no proof to substantiate this
• Confident that the AFL will not fine, or take draft picks from Essendon
• Confident that ASADA will not issue Show Cause Notices to Essendon players and staff
• Confident that taking the AFL & ASADA to court will overturn their investigations and allow Essendon to get off on a technicality
• Confident that through their outstanding legal team and unlimited resources they will prevail in all court actions
• Confident that ASADA has no evidence and that a hearing will be over in a matter of days, clearing them due to lack of evidence
• Confident that James Hird would win his appeal to the full bench of the Federal Court, dismissing all evidence against him and Essendon, due to technicalities in how the evidence was collected

Confident future projections of their confidence:

• Confident that despite the full bench dismissing Hird's appeal on all matters and awarding costs against him, that a High Court challenge will succeed and allow Hird and the club to get off on a technicality
• Confident that if there are sanctions, these will be backdated to September last year
• Confident that if there are games to miss, they will miss NAB Games only, or a token number of matches early this season
• Confident that this is nearly over and that Essendon will be cleared
• Confident that despite any sanctions and outcomes that James Hird will remain as coach and there will not be huge fall off in Essendon membership, when they have been found to have been lying for over two years

Covered it really well.
The only thing I would add the Lawyers are very confident they are going to make a very very large amount of money out of it.

 

[ike2112]

TBH because we are going to finish down the wrong end of the ladder again regardless.
I dont really care if the equality of the draw is a bit compromised next yr.
id just rather see Ess cop their fair whack like Saad had to.
Im not too worried if Richmond finish 9th again on percentage because of an unfair advantage of some other team playing a weakened Bombers side.
Just punish them and to hell with the consequences

What if we don't get pick 1, because we played and beat a weakened Dons side, but Western played and lost to their full strength side?

My point about the competition isn't about AFL and their TV cash, it's about punishing Essendon unfairly affecting the other clubs.

 

[VDS66]

Touchy subject youve raised there as Im a long time Storm member.
But yes, the Afl should say to hell with upsetting people and just come down HARD!!!!! On the Bombers.

You can what you like, and there was probably a fair dose of the NSW hierarchy teaching the cocky kid something to think about, but they cheated and to their credit, the NRL didn't shirk it.

The initial sanctions by the AFL have done nothing - and I mean nothing - to punish the cheats. A few draft picks? They can trade in some good players to cover that. The fine? They have many rich benefactors that would have paid that. Hird? well he's back at this stage.

 

[ike2112]

I dont get how you can get time served backdated if you didnt do any time for the crime.. figureitivly speaking that is. Infact the whole time spent if it is to be so called back dated was spent contesting the crime in court while the players kept doing their jobs.. that just doesnt make any sense.

I know, but it is done.
Usually it's because at the time of the infringement there was no test for what they cheated with. So if caught retrospectively, the athlete never had a chance to make an early plea.
But there are other examples too where people continued to participate despite being under investigation, the sporting body asked their national governing body to provisionally suspend them, and some did, some didn't. The athletes then get a ban, and it's backdated to when the investigation shows they probably cheated. Here ASADA should have asked for the players to be provisionally suspended, however I think in this case they did not as it would have directly affected the likelihood of players making an appeal and I'm sure there's another law about not using the suspension to force someone's decision.

However to be honest, the really irritating thing is that there is absolutely no consistency with these things at all. In cycling 3 different people can get caught doing the same thing at the same time, and be given 3 different punishments.
By the letter of the law (well, guideline actually) Saad should have gotten 2 years. He was actually lucky in some ways. Yet there are numerous examples of athletes in other sports getting caught out in the same way, and getting 6 months.

 

[VDS66]

It really is difficult to find a way to give the players a reasonable punishment whilst not adversely affecting the competition.

Screw adversely affecting the competition.

The only reason why a player should not cop the full brunt is if they were totally dudded by the club.

If the bans are watered because of adverse affect on the competition, then the AFL is on a slippery slope on the way to oblivion.

 

[ike2112]

Look at the Russian Olympic walkers who got banned recently.
Plenty of Olympic and World titles between them, evidence of cheating over a sustained period, yet their ban conveniently falls in dates where no medals have to be handed back.

 

[ike2112]

Screw adversely affecting the competition.

The only reason why a player should not cop the full brunt is if they were totally dudded by the club.

If the bans are watered because of adverse affect on the competition, then the AFL is on a slippery slope on the way to oblivion.

I would not be happy if we missed out on pick 1 because of the Essendon fallout. Nor would for example Eagles be happy at coming 9th because they faced a full strength Dons whilst the team above them faced a weakened version, perhaps twice.

We shouldn't miss coming last and Eagles miss finals, because Essendon are cheats.

 

[ike2112]

The one funny thing I can imagine in all of this, is Eddie.

He'll want the competitive advantage of playing a weakened Dons, twice if he can wangle it. Yet he'll also want his blockbuster game unaffected. Can just picture his head about to explode trying to weave what he wants out of this!

 

[Sunshine Saint]

What if we don't get pick 1, because we played and beat a weakened Dons side, but Western played and lost to their full strength side?

My point about the competition isn't about AFL and their TV cash, it's about punishing Essendon unfairly affecting the other clubs.

The AFL would never let a scenario like that go ahead. If Essendon players are suspended for a prolonged period, they will take all points off them for the year. Essendon received sanctions previously, but this was for bringing the game into disrepute. If they are found guilty of supplements, the AFL could quite easily take all competition points off them. Having done this, no disadvantage to any other team.

 

[sauce_head]

I would not be happy if we missed out on pick 1 because of the Essendon fallout. Nor would for example Eagles be happy at coming 9th because they faced a full strength Dons whilst the team above them faced a weakened version, perhaps twice.

We shouldn't miss coming last and Eagles miss finals, because Essendon are cheats.

Come on. It's already uneven. Your argument only works in this instance if everybody plays each other the same amount of times.

I have found your otjer posts infesting btw!

 

[Ice-Wolf]

The AFL should state that Essendon will be punished if they do not field a team due to player boycott, it's up to Essendon to make sure that players who are eligible to play turn up.

The only way Essendon should be able to escape sanction for not fielding a team from their normal list is if they can not field a team due to legitimate injuries, even then they should be required to pay the match day costs and if they are the away side compensation to their opponent on top.

Essendon's problems are self-inflicted and not as the result of circumstances beyond their control so they should receive no special dispensation regardless of the consequences for the club or competition.

 

[Axcellence]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-34-wont-play-in-nab-challenge-20150210-13b69i.html

Well, Essendon will play and the players will sit out.

So much so for the boycott threat.

I just think they are clutching at straws. Reading the main sub board, the argument is, peds were procured, but there is no proof they were administered.

Pretty weak argument, IMO. The VFL dude got done for 2 years for procuring, why do this lot get done for only 6 months is still to be explained.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-34-wont-play-in-nab-challenge-20150210-13b69i.html

Well, Essendon will play and the players will sit out.

So much so for the boycott threat.

I just think they are clutching at straws. Reading the main sub board, the argument is, peds were procured, but there is no proof they were administered.

Pretty weak argument, IMO. The VFL dude got done for 2 years for procuring, why do this lot get done for only 6 months is still to be explained.

More of the same from Essendon. They huff and puff and then get beaten down by courts, appeals, AFL, ASADA, yet they do not alter their game plan. More of the same, with their normal arrogance and disregard for others, that was the cause of them being in this situation.

Their change of mind would not be Essendon seeing the errors of their ways, but more likely the AFL pointing out the realities of their contract with the AFL regarding fielding teams etc in their nominated competitions. They would have had further sanctions imposed by the AFL if they chose to boycott the NAB games, including fines, loss of premiership points and / or further draft picks. Granted Essendon are stupid, but they seem to prefer to play the tough character for their mindless members, who don't seem to mind continual humiliating back downs or defeats.

 

[Axcellence]

More of the same from Essendon. They huff and puff and then get beaten down by courts, appeals, AFL, ASADA, yet they do not alter their game plan. More of the same, with their normal arrogance and disregard for others, that was the cause of them being in this situation.

Their change of mind would not be Essendon seeing the errors of their ways, but more likely the AFL pointing out the realities of their contract with the AFL regarding fielding teams etc in their nominated competitions. They would have had further sanctions imposed by the AFL if they chose to boycott the NAB games, including fines, loss of premiership points and / or further draft picks. Granted Essendon are stupid, but they seem to prefer to play the tough character for their mindless members, who don't seem to mind continual humiliating back downs or defeats.

I'll rephrase my earlier words... they might even acknowledge that it was administered, but they can't be sure which ones of the 34 were! Hence, no one should be charged!

Plus, Hird's got his buddies on the board who support him now (the guy who was trying to get rid of Hird lost the board membership battle). I can see where this ship is going ...