The King!
Chosen One
Ill reserve judgement
I think his coaching from the bounce of 2014 grand final to now has been ordinary
Opinion Our coaches, leadership, game style, and everything else
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Ill reserve judgement
I think his coaching from the bounce of 2014 grand final to now has been ordinary
To be fair Eagles lost by 3 goals less than us and they were called a unstoppable juggernaut this season.
The King!
Chosen One
Yeah, longmire had a pretty good side though and was outcoached quite a bit
Geelong stands out, clarkson gets him the same way every time,
Longmire was solid, but imo we underperformed
Next year will be interesting, different expectations
I think we were a 6-8 side this year so we might slide a little or remain around that mark in 2016 we do have a pretty good draw tho.
Geelong is being massively overrated for 2016
Think Port might be strong again
Fit and a full season out of Mumford GWS might be bolter won 11 games this year no reason they cant push for 14
kickthething
Brownlow Medallist
I think the modern thinking is about agility, in business and in the coaching box.....the ability for our coaches to experience other lines should enhance their thinking a little more and enable them to pre-empt the ripple effect of their strategies across the field. Also, if there are more minds with more breadth of experience you should get more suggestions on moves throughout a game. To box someone as just one type of coach probably limits the team.
However I have no input into Playfairs role, simple as a coach, his appointment has always puzzled me, although others must see things that keep him involved.
However I have no input into Playfairs role, simple as a coach, his appointment has always puzzled me, although others must see things that keep him involved.
It says that he's a defender
swansfan51
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The King!
Chosen One
I agree.
Provided we want September holidays then leave the gameplan alone.
MarkP
That guy
I have high hopes for Shaw down the track.
That is what worries me. Longmire has not really adjusted the game plan in 5 years of coaching.
MARK In TIME
All Australian
That's really, a fundamentally incorrect statement. The way we played in 2015 (high uncontested possession, low clearance, corridor-focused ect.) is so different to the way we played in 2012. Separate to being a boundary-hugging, contested possession machine (those were the days
), we didn't have that tendency to over-possess the ball.For a team that never had that many inside 50s we were remarkably efficient, and it's because we played super direct. The antithesis to the 12 successive handballs going backwards we all had to endure this year.
Oh, and we believed in taggers those days too!Our gameplan has definitely changed. Not necessarily for the better, but that's not really the argument.
That's really, a fundamentally incorrect statement. The way we played in 2015 (high uncontested possession, low clearance, corridor-focused ect.) is so different to the way we played in 2012. Separate to being a boundary-hugging, contested possession machine (those were the days
For a team that never had that many inside 50s we were remarkably efficient, and it's because we played super direct. The antithesis to the 12 successive handballs going backwards we all had to endure this year.
Our gameplan has definitely changed. Not necessarily for the better, but that's not really the argument.
But it has changed in a reactionary way to how other teams play rather than Longmire dictating how we should play (if that makes sense).
That's really, a fundamentally incorrect statement. The way we played in 2015 (high uncontested possession, low clearance, corridor-focused ect.) is so different to the way we played in 2012. Separate to being a boundary-hugging, contested possession machine (those were the days
For a team that never had that many inside 50s we were remarkably efficient, and it's because we played super direct. The antithesis to the 12 successive handballs going backwards we all had to endure this year.
Our gameplan has definitely changed. Not necessarily for the better, but that's not really the argument.
I dont think we have the skills to pull off what Longmire is telling them to do none of our mids can kick which i guess will be a problem as they should be the distributors.
We just have poor skills which gets masked over when we bring that high pressure/high tackling game where attaining close to 100 tackles week in week out is not feasible.
I just like to know after 3 years and bringing in 2 key forwards (1 forward one of the greatest in the modern era) we haven't improved our scoring from 2012.
Yes but why? why cant we have our midfield kicking goals like in 2012 PLUS the added 3 goals a game from Franklin and 2 or so goals from Tippett.
We would be kicking 90-100pts every week.
sataris
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What upsets me the most is our talent is biased towards the forward line rather than the defence.
And we insist on playing a defensive game plan. Someone explain this to me?
Our primary goal should be as many inside 50's as possible. It seems to be restrict the opposition as much as possible?
Why recruit Tippett? or Franklin?
It doesn't make sense.
And we insist on playing a defensive game plan. Someone explain this to me?
Our primary goal should be as many inside 50's as possible. It seems to be restrict the opposition as much as possible?
Why recruit Tippett? or Franklin?
It doesn't make sense.
The King!
Chosen One
Spot on
Or we need to find a better way to counter it and redefine the game which seems unlikely
But undermanned brave defenders relying on numbers pushing back is done
Anyway with our gameplan should of chucked money at Harry Taylor and co not Buddy and Tippett
We did that how often did you see figures of 15 entries for a return of 1-2 goals if we are lucky, problem is it rebounds just as quickly as we pump the ball in.
sataris
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I'd wager most of those were inside 40's after kicking it to a 3 on 1.
Regardless the game plan (if there is one) Isn't utilizing the firepower have up front but the leaky brain fart brigade down back
MarkP
That guy
Not actually correct. But the argument stands in a way. Our talent down back has been consistent and gold standard over the recent stretch.
Statistically speaking we had the 5th best defence last year allowing 1578 points against. Hawthorn unsurprisingly was the best with 1548 so only 30 points or 5 goals difference over a season which is pretty negligible. And as you can see by that spread the top 5 defensive units were neck and neck really. Big gap to 6th (Crows) who allowed 1821. In other words in 2015 our defence/defence structure was close enough to best in league.
2014 we allowed 1488 points only. Freo second with 1556, then Port 1678 and so on. Clearly best in league.
2013 we were 2nd behind Freo 1694 vs 1518. 3rd was 1754 so a decent gap.
And 2012 we were top of the pops allowing 1629. Freo again close with 1691 then Hawks with 1733 then 1807 and so on.
In fact our defence is absolutely magnificent and amazingly consistent defying its price tag compared to the front half.
Now for the offence in summary - position on the "points for" table and our actual points then the top teams points for the year.
2012 5th 2290 - 2679 (Saints! and #lolnorf scored more funnily enough)
2013 4th 2244 - 2523
2014 4th 2126 - 2458
2015 6th 2006 - 2452
No prizes for guessing which team topped the scoring for all of those seasons.
So while we have been fairly consistent in our ladder position for offence there has been a steady and fairly significant decline.
The gap between the best offence and us is large on a absolute basis which is quite frightening and depressing given we actually grabbed one of that teams primary scoring machines - yeh they used him as a decoy in 2013 or whatever but wow....what a decoy. And of course they didn't have that decoy for the last 2 years so the need to match up on him was gone but while they too have declined in absolute scoring the gap remains between us and them.
In essence your point around why in the flying * can we not score more is quite valid. And that is a direct derivative of gameplan/style/coaching instructions. Been there and done that on the amount of goals to behinds we score - we are on average with the league so it is not accuracy.
I have said similar things to you just without castigating the back 6 which in reality could not have performed much better.
We have had one of the best back 6 in the league for the past 4 seasons and a remarkably static list of personnel down back which will be tested this season with Shaw gone and Ted unlikely to play the full year in the top grade - well "hopefully" not. If Talia cannot push a geriatric out then we have issues.
Basically we have an awesome back 6 that simply cannot limit teams to any less than they are doing as it is statistically impossible to do it. AFL teams are going to score a basic amount of points regardless of what you do. And we are limiting it as well as any of our peers.
In the last 4 seasons we have limited teams to around 73 points on average per game. You cannot expect more than that.
You however are absolutely correct. How a coaching group getting paid enormous salaries and with support staff out the ying yang cannot get Buddy, Tippett, Reid, Goodes etc etc etc to score more is past baffling. It is negligent actually.
The firepower we have added since 2012 cannot be reconciled to us year on year dropping our scoring output.
Makes zero sense. Why more questions are not asked is beyond me.
Basically we've added mature players over the years to fill gaps in the back six with magnificent success, and we've developed some wonderful defenders of our own.
We've done the same with our forwards over the years as well. Buddy, McGlynn, Davis, Hall, Tippo, Bradshaw...goes all the way back to Lockett. IMHO also with pretty magnificent results.
Comparing our successes down back with our successes up forward is interesting. When football changed in the 2000's all of a sudden the Swans lost the focal point forward. The position evolved into a holding forward in a way - there to clunk a mark, sure, but also there to simply anchor the structure and allow the mids to kick a score around them. Just watching Hall struggle to score under his new 'around the ground' responsibilities compared to the strategy of planting Tony in the square is pretty striking. But we're not the only team to struggle with that change. And frankly we struggled our way to Premierships, so it's not all bad news?
When I think of how we've adjusted to the way forward lines best work today, I don't see us making the space that some other teams are finding. In the past, I'd suggest this has everything to do with the way we pull our forwards up the ground to support the midfield (in exactly the same way we've so effectively supported our back six). But ultimately this is always going to be the case when we're playing a long kicking game, rather than a highly skilled, short passing game.
So rather than a short marking game, we used handpasses. And when teams work us out, those handpass chains go backwards and sideways a fair bit. This is all I want to see changed. I want to see us move it faster once we've got the ball a few metres away from congestion.
If we can move the ball faster, commit less players to the congested area, and hopefully kick to less 3 on 1 contests in the forward line I'd be happy. Surely that would see more goals?
We've done the same with our forwards over the years as well. Buddy, McGlynn, Davis, Hall, Tippo, Bradshaw...goes all the way back to Lockett. IMHO also with pretty magnificent results.
Comparing our successes down back with our successes up forward is interesting. When football changed in the 2000's all of a sudden the Swans lost the focal point forward. The position evolved into a holding forward in a way - there to clunk a mark, sure, but also there to simply anchor the structure and allow the mids to kick a score around them. Just watching Hall struggle to score under his new 'around the ground' responsibilities compared to the strategy of planting Tony in the square is pretty striking. But we're not the only team to struggle with that change. And frankly we struggled our way to Premierships, so it's not all bad news?
When I think of how we've adjusted to the way forward lines best work today, I don't see us making the space that some other teams are finding. In the past, I'd suggest this has everything to do with the way we pull our forwards up the ground to support the midfield (in exactly the same way we've so effectively supported our back six). But ultimately this is always going to be the case when we're playing a long kicking game, rather than a highly skilled, short passing game.
So rather than a short marking game, we used handpasses. And when teams work us out, those handpass chains go backwards and sideways a fair bit. This is all I want to see changed. I want to see us move it faster once we've got the ball a few metres away from congestion.
If we can move the ball faster, commit less players to the congested area, and hopefully kick to less 3 on 1 contests in the forward line I'd be happy. Surely that would see more goals?
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This is the biggest thing I would like to see changed for next year - it's become evident to everyone except Horse apparently that our forwards are pushing too far up the ground which is forcing us into so many handballs. I understand why we play that way to a certain extent, to protect the back six as well as the midfield so we don't get hurt as much when other teams beat us with quick ball movement, but you do have to let them attack a bit more IMO.
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